4 x 4 Drivers

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Mar 14, 2005
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I had an 'incident' recently with one of these 4 wheel drive vehicles.

Entering a narrow road, with cars parked on one side, I got about half way along it, when this huge black 4 wheel drive appeared from a side turning.

The driver saw me coming, deliberately turned right in front of me, and then drove to within about 6 inches of my front bumper. He clearly had no intention of reversing, and was making 'pushing' gestures with his hands as if to say "Get out of my way".

I declined, wherupon, he jumped out of it, and came to my side window and said, I'm not backing up pal, so if you don't move that F*****g thing, then I'll punch your f*****g face flat". Big, arrogant fellow, obviously thought that he was the king of the road'. Just the type that spoils it for all the decent 4 wheel drivers out there.

That was where he made a big mistake.

What a shame for him that my unmarked traffic car was fitted with the very latest in video and sound recording technology, and that my passenger and I had time to spare!

We get a lot of complaints about drivers like this. If you have the opportunity to do so, deal with such incidents immediately by phoning 999 and giving the registration of the vehicle to the police. Often these sort of aggressive and intimidating drivers have been drinking, which is why they behave like they do, and can quickly be detained. As in this case.
Sorry, can't wait for an answer.

So why did your post mention very clearly a 4x4, and what has the colour of the vehicle have to do with it? You say it was black, are you trying to insinuate that all black cars are driven by the characters that you describe? Would you have mentioned the colour if it had been yellow? Once a gain it's an inflammatory post against offroaders, what's the problem? Do you think the world would be a better place without them? If so, when you have that RTA or stumble while out fell walking or get stuck in the snow and ice or need towing off that farmers field or can't have that lovely caravan you always wanted because it's too heavy for your Ford Escort and many other uses not mentioned, please don't feel aggrieved when one does not turn up and your left there wondering why?
 
Mar 14, 2005
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What a lovely story Keith, how I laughed!

Unfortunately I see one flaw in your comment:

"We get a lot of complaints about drivers like this. If you have the opportunity to do so, deal with such incidents immediately by phoning 999 and giving the registration of the vehicle to the police."

Anti-4x4 people will look at that and say, "Oh that's a good way to upset those great big monsters from hell!"

It's a fact of life that anything larger than a Mundaneo is spawn of the devil to some road users and they will complain about them if given the chance. I ought to know, being an ex-HGV1 driver and a 4wd owner I've taken flak from everyone. You are taught to take control of the road around you when learning to drive heavies but unfortunately a lot of road users translate this into what they think is being a roadhog. It's a fact of life for drivers of large vehicles that you have to make space for your vehicle as normal motorists don't have a clue how much room you actually need. I could go on, but I'll just start geting all bitter and twisted again.
Hi Deano - with regard to commanding space whilst on the road it is a fair bet that the faster vehicles on the road frequently impinge on the space you are using, The 2 main critisisms in modern day driving are IMHO Close following and drivers not anticipating potential hazards around them.

and of course we get the "hogs" that forget all of the rules straight after passing there driving test and live on their andrenalin when driving fast on our overcrowded roads
 
Nov 1, 2005
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i now with a 4x4 and usually do so on motorways at around 70to80mph.when conditions allow.thi

s is not a 4x4 thing i also did this when i towed with a "standard"car.a well matched,well loaded outfit should be as stable at these speeds as at 50or60.at the end of the day,i believe observation is the key in any driving situation.
 
May 12, 2005
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Craig you wouldn`t be that idiot Kanga would you? It`s just that your comments are the kind of thying he would post to wind people up.LIKE ME! HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY 70- 80 WHEN THE LAW STATES 60 MAX. I SUPPOSE THE POLICEMAN THAT GIVES YOU THE SPEEDING TICKET WILL BE A RIGHT B`````D, you should be banned on the evidence of your posting, Mr Moderator call the police
 
Nov 1, 2005
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im glad i dont fire up as easily as you do tony.youre right breaking the law isnt justifiable.what im saying is that travelling faster than the recommended 60mph isnt any more of a safety issue than driving at 85mph solo.there are times when it can be done safely and times when it cant.it is still against the law either way,and id hold my hands up if pulled over.there is a world of difference between speeding and driving dangerously or inconsiderately.the quickest way to travel is to know when to slow down.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Craig - I can promise you that in all probability you will have an accident and I hope that your family if you are lucky to have one are not with you when it happens, your post just proves that a fool is born every second. Good Luck to you as you will need it.
 
Nov 2, 2005
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I have just registered.

This makes interesting reading, one thing I realise is this is a no win situtation irrespective of vehicle type.

I tow here about 60-65, in France I tow 65-75 including the use of cruise control in a mondeo 2.0Ltr diesel.

I have no problem with my speed and I am within the remmended limits. I was taught driving technics by a traffic policeman and make sure I look well ahead for any situation that might arise and act well in advance.

I have overtaken other outfits consisting of cars and 4x4's and have had others overtake me, as long as they do safely I have no problems with that. What concerns me more is ill matched units, badly loaded units and the lack of (what I feel is a safetly aspect) correct extended mirrors.
 
Nov 1, 2005
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you share the same view as myself smiley.i regularly see outfits which concern me,not because of their speed,but because theyre obviously poorly matched.i myself tow a twin axle swift conqueror with a grand cherokee 4ltr lpg,and never have any problems being overtaken or overtaking.i think if you do you need to look at your own outfit before you accuse others of bad motoring.i recently witnessed a 23ft tabbert being pulled by an escort td.even at 50mph(if it could manage it!)this must be a danger to everyone else one the road.its about common sense i feel,breaking the law doesnt mean being dangerous.
 
Nov 2, 2005
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Well said Craig

It is sometimes very difficult to put oneself across effectively in writing, it is not so much 4x4 against cars when it comes to driving/towing, but the drivers themselves.
 
Aug 28, 2005
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Everyone,

Did I read this correctly; did someone say

a) They towed @ 80 MPH ?

b) They did it safely ?

I'm not sure if I read this right?

Regards Monkeys husband
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Everyone,

Did I read this correctly; did someone say

a) They towed @ 80 MPH ?

b) They did it safely ?

I'm not sure if I read this right?

Regards Monkeys husband
All depends if this a court of law, and if we can factor in some credible deniability.
 
Nov 1, 2005
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monkey,i did indeed say that id towed at upto 80mph.i also said when conditions allow.dont misunderstand me,i dont do 80mph everywhere i go,neither do i do 70mph.if my outfit is comfortable at those speeds im happy.quite understandably not everyone shares my views,but lets not forget practical caravan itself has tested a bmw/elddis outfit up to 99mph with no problems.i wouldnt go that far but what they proved was cars and caravans have progressed vast amounts since the 50/60mph limits were intoduced and maybe its time the limits were rethought?not everyone will be comfortable at 70to80mph and theyre quite at liberty to travel slower,as i would if i felt the outfit was nearing its limit.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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The problem with speed limits, no matter what level they are set at, is that they give people false sense of security that it is safe to travel at that maximum speed permissible, no matter how good or bad a driver they are and what margin of safety their outfit has. Proof of this is the number of accidents that occur in fog. While no doubt an outfit may be safe at 100mph under ideal conditions and in the hands of a expert driver, even he (or she) may become seriously unstuck if an emergency situation should arise. Speed limits are therefore set to cover average motorists using average technical equipment under ideal traffic conditions.

Caravan brakes and suspension are extremely crude compared with those of modern cars and really not up to the job for higher speeds. They're OK so long as one is going in a straight line and nothing gets in the way but you only need the car ahead to unexpectedly pull out in front of you to show the limits of what you can do in an emergency when towing.
 
Apr 13, 2005
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80 mph is totally iresponsible, one slight gust of wind or a dip in the road and you will almost certainly loose control of the outfit no matter how good a driver you think you are. how are you going to feel after you have crashed and you survive but the family in the other car are dead through your actions.

Craig i hope i never become unfortunate enough to be on the same section of road as you and would urge you to change your ways, don't forget apart from your dangerous atitude at 80 mph towing you will be prosecuted for dangerous driving and you are only 10 mph below a ban. thank god 99 % of us are sensible.
 
Jan 19, 2008
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Personally unless the motorway was empty I would be scared ****less doing 80mph towing. I must admit Ive crept up to 65 on motorways and 60 on A roads. My wife/dogs and van are too precious to me to risk going faster and in the end how much time do you save? I too was heading south a few weeks ago on the M5 and a BMW X5 towing a twin axle flew past me, I wonder if it was the same outfit that Tony saw.
 
Apr 13, 2005
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LB, you will not save any time as you will need to keep stopping to fill up the tank, but i suppose these people who think they have a right to break the law dont think like that.
 
Nov 2, 2005
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I am getting confused, could we state who's speed limits we are discussing, England or the rest of europe?

As we have a lower limit here, someone might be talking about somewhere else!!!
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Lower limit in the UK compared to the rest of Europe? Are you serious? In fact the speed limit in the UK is higher than in most countries. France, Belgium and, for the sake of a complete picture, Lithuania, are the only countries with higher limits.
 
Nov 2, 2005
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No its not a joke!!!

I go to France a few times every year, their speed limits are 81mph solo/towing on autoroutes in normal conditions.

Our speed limits are 70mph solo and 60mph towing on motorways in normal conditions.

When someone says they tow at 75-80 mph they could be referring to France. If anyone reads the posting they might assume the person means that is the speed they tow at in England.

I thought it was a valid question actually, as no one is stating which country they are in when towing at particular speeds.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I'm sorry but your response did read as though speed limits throughout Europe are higher than in the UK. In fact, 80kph (=50mph) is the norm. Of the 35 or so countries, only about a third allow anything faster.
 
Nov 2, 2005
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Thank you for coming back with a decent response.

I haven't ventured to any other coutries yet, where would I look to find the speed limits if I did go further afield?

Can I find this info on the net?
 
Apr 13, 2005
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Smiley, the thread was started with a reference to a speeding motorist on the M5 motorway and since nobody has made any reference to any other country on this thread one can safely assume that all postings are in relation to the uk speed limits.

If you are a member of either of the two clubs they will be able to advice you of the relevant speed limits and towing laws of all countrys you intend to visit, always remember we complain about over zelous police officers in this country but in france and spain they are ten times worse with regards to speed.
 
Aug 31, 2005
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I have monitored this thread with interest, but I can't help but feel that either the caravan fraternity are a breed apart or some have experienced some severe 'near misses' or, worse, been involved in an accident with a caravan. My main cause for surprise at some of extreme reactions is because, when driving solo (yes in the UK), it is perfectly normal to travel at 80 or even 90 mph on certain stretches of motorway, in the right conditions etc. Many of us have some 30 years' driving experience and, whilst we strictly adhere to speed limits in towns, near schools etc, when on the open road we (yes, I !) have no deep sense of guilt or feel that I am endangering anyone unduly when I put my foot down.

Now, to caravan towing. This is very different. Why, because as has been stated on many occasions, caravans are not built to be manoeuvred at speed and have breaking systems that are rudimentary compared to cars. Therefore, to exceed 60, irrespective of how the outfit 'feels', may well be increasing your risk exponentially; although that is pure conjecture on my part.

What I cannot understand is why some caravaners get so heated about being overtaken at say 70mph by a well balanced outfit, and yet, when overtaken by a car doing (say) 95 in the outside lane, we'll barely bat an eyelid. Is this because, by towing a caravan, some feel that we have all taken certain unspoken vows to adhere to the speed limits in ways that, when driving solo, we do not necessarily do? By enjoying caravaning, do we all somehow feel that we have to 'drive by the book' that, when driving solo, don't usually apply - or risk being ostracised in all CC sites ?!!

I just feel that some seem to enjoy preaching about speeding and driving 4x4s whereas the real issues are dangerous driving; driving under the influence; driving whilst being uninsured. the list goes on.

So the next time a powerful outfit overtakes you at 60 mph+ perhaps the more appropriate response would be to question whether or not the conditions are suitable or not. As people have suggested, if the same happened in France none of you would notice; but because we are in Old Blighty that doesn't automatically make it more dangerous, it just means that one has broken the law, and risks being fined etc.

Thanks !

John
 

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