85%

[KeithJ]

Until recently I had a heavy 4x4 vehicle which was an easy match for my caravan so I had little need to check.
I have now changed to a Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCi so wanted to check the figures. I couldn't find a kerb weight figure for the car, published by Ford, so today took it to a weighbridge. With about 30 litres of fuel on board but no driver, it weighed 1580kg. Using this as the kerb weight of the car, it would be a good match (using 85%) for a caravan weighing 1343kg. However I then calculated three other "kerbweights" for the car - ie 1555kg without fuel, 1625kg for car and driver (70kg) but no fuel, and 1650kg for car, driver and 30 litres. The 85% equivalents of these would be 1321kg, 1381kg, and 1403kg.

My point of writing this is - who is to say which of these figures is most relevant?
I am old enough to remember when the Caravan Club used to recommend 75%, and when this became difficult to work with it was increased to 85%, and now somebody has decided that 75kg for the driver should be included. So why not include some fuel as well? Suddenly my Mondeo is OK to tow my 1400 mptlm caravan. I am happy with this as the car will weigh a lot more when it has an awning and poles etc. on board, and the percentage is very theoretical anyway.

What do others think about this.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Keith,

What does the car manufacture say about the maximum towed weight? They designed and tested the vehicle, where as the NCC CC and other have not, so who should you belive?

Provide the caravans weight is no greater than the car manufactures towing limit, then the car will legally tow it. The only other legal limit that may apply is if you do not have cat BE or B+E on your driving licence, when you are limited to 100% if the car allows.

Having said that it does make sense to keep the caravan weight as small as possible, but basically 85% is just guidance. it is not a target and it certainly has no legal relevance.

 

[ProfJohnL]

MODS this can be removed,

I dont' know why but double posting seems to be on the increase, the site doesn't always seem to register the fact the first post has been accepted.

 

[Lutz]

That's the trouble. There is no 'proper' definition of kerbweight. It was covered by convention only and then only in the UK where it was accepted to include a full fuel tank but no driver. Legally, in the UK, one uses the term unladen weight, which includes neither the driver nor any fuel. And abroad there was a different interpretation of content once again. To clean up this mess, an EU directive was put together, introducing and a new term, Mass in Running Order or MIRO, and this includes 75kg for the driver and sundry items and a 90% full fuel tank. This is the definition to which the vehicle industry works today and what is shown in the V5c certifficate where it is called Mass in Service.
Officially, the term 'kerbweight' has ceased to exist. Why the Caravan Club and other sources persist in using it, is difficult to understand and misleading.
That said, because the 85% is only a recommendation, there is no reason why one should not give or take a few kilos one way or the other. One is not going to notice any difference between towing 1350kg or a 1400kg caravan.
By the way, you can find all the weight data you need for the Mondeo from the following Ford company website:
Ford Mondeo specs

 

[Francis_374353316]

Hi
I have a 2004 Mondeo 2.0 tdci and the kerbweight stated in the handbook is 1505kg but the max weight it can tow is according to the handbook is 1800kgs. I tow a van of 1400kgs which I think works out at around about 93% but I have no problems atol with the outfit so I don't think you have anything to worry about.
Hope this helps!

 

[Surfer]

My 2010 Mondeo 2.0L TCDi auto kerbweight is 1592kg but the car can legally tow a maximum braked tow weight up to 2000kgs. Vauxhall state that the the braked towing capacity is calculated on the ability of the car with a driver & passenger each weighing 75kg to restart on a 12% gradient which is approximately 1 in 8.3 at sea level. Any extra weight such as luggage or additional passengers should be deducted from the maiximum towing weight.
According to the Vauxhall brochure, for example if the car's kerbweight was 1500kg with a maximum towing weight of 1300kg and you have extra passengers and luggage and these weigh approximatley 200kg you will need to subtract the 200kg from the 1300kg meaning you can only legally tow a trailer with a maximum braked towing wweight of 1100kgs! This puts you well within the 85% guideline. TBH I had not idea that you had to subtracted additonal weight in the car from the maximum braked towing weight un til recently. It has never affected us as all our towing vehilces have been more than capable.
With the Mondeo you have no such problem as you should be well within the legal maximum braked towing weight even fully laden unless of course you have a few bags of cement in the back of the car.

 

[KeithJ]

Thank you all for your information, which I think reinforces my opinion that the 85% guideline is meaningless when we don't appear to be able to make up our minds what to include when applying this figure. Lutz mentioned that 90% of a tank of fuel should be included (I only included 30 litres in one of my figures) - so that produces yet another "kerbweight" figure. The weight of a passenger has also been mentioned.

I am well aware of the legal towing limits of my car, but it is generally accepted that it would not be advisable to tow a caravan that heavy. So it is advised that we should normally tow up to 85 per cent of the car's weight - David Motton mentions it at least three times in his column in Practical Caravan every month!! My question is "85% of what" when we don't seem to be able to make up our minds what to include!

 

[Surfer]

It is rumoured to be 85% of the kerbweight of the car, but how many empty cars with no drivers or fuel do you see towing trailers? If you a 85% sticklier then I would say that it is 85% of the gross vehicle weight when towing i.e. kerbweight, weight of passengers and baggage. This will then allow you to safely tow a caravan almost equal to the kerbweight of the car.

 

[KeithJ]

Surfer

What you say makes sense. At least driver and fuel, but it makes a nonsense of the 85% guideline as used before.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Surfer,

I understand your point, but it would be very difficult manage, as it would depend on you knowing exactly how heavy your car was on each journey, and the need to adapt your loading to match the figure - and again one of my objections to the 85% figure is that it is seen as offering guidance on how to achieve a safe tow, but in reality it does not offer any guarantee and it ignores so many other equally important criteria.

I do wish we could bury "85%" and replace it with a more pragmatiic and holistic approach. 85% focuses for to much on just one single aspect of achieveing a good outfit, but we know that good towing is affected by a much wider range of issues than just a weight ratio.

 

[Surfer]

Many cars these days cannot tow anything even close to their kerbweight and only just make it inside the so called 85% guideline, i.e the Peugeot 1.6L diesel auto kerbweight 1550kg cannot legally tow anything heavier than 1100kg but the same car petol version 1.6 auto can tow up to 1500kg???? However if you take off the energy saving tyres and replace them with non energy saver tyres, then the diesel auto can tow up to 1300kg! Now how weird is that?

 

[xtrailman]

I like to keep things simple, its always sound to tow as light as you can, unfortunately you often find that you want what you really shouldn't have.
So then we have post after post, where some one wants to tow a great heavy caravan, but with a barely adequate car.

85% is a good target, 85% and below is even better.

My car weighs 1720kg from the handbook, i intend to tow a 1565kg caravan with it, thats round the 90% area, so not good, but not the end of the world either, i would much sooner be towing 1333kg, the weight of our old caravan.

But I'll see how it goes, if i'm not happy the car will get changed, to something heavier, i'm towing a caravan, not pushing the boundaries of space exploration.

I did fancy a caravan at 1650kg, but why would i push my luck?

Keeping a good weight margin is always good advice, hence 85% is a good target to aim for.

 

[Lutz]

Many cars these days cannot tow anything even close to their kerbweight and only just make it inside the so called 85% guideline, i.e the Peugeot 1.6L diesel auto kerbweight 1550kg cannot legally tow anything heavier than 1100kg but the same car petol version 1.6 auto can tow up to 1500kg???? However if you take off the energy saving tyres and replace them with non energy saver tyres, then the diesel auto can tow up to 1300kg! Now how weird is that?

Not weird at all. The towload specified by the car manufacturer is purely a technical limit that has nothing to do with kerbweight.