A Reminder for Those Carrying LPG Cylinders in Car

[Hutch]

Back to the the corners , boys, gloves off. Big smiles.

 

[Dustydog]

Back to the the corners , boys, gloves off. Big smiles.

And Hutch is the Ref in the middle :evil:

 

[Damian]

I am at a loss as to why for some reason people seem to be advocating the transport of LPG cylinders on their side when the nationally accepted guidelines and regulations for transport of LPG is upright...............................

Damian,
Now I’m worried and so should Calor be. If it was safety critical there should be a massive sign warning how the cylinder should be placed at all times. Further if so critical, those selling such cylinders should be providing both verbal and written instructions every time a sale is made. :woohoo:

This is not a serious point, But, should we have a sign on the car, showing that we are carrying, a gas cylinder, when changing gas bottles, so the emergency services, know we carry them. I haven't noticed LPG cars having the signs, are they required ?

The transport of LPG in private vehicles for private use is not regulated the same as bulk and commercial transport, where advisory stickers are mandatory.
However, it is a good idea to have an indication such as a sticker showing when actually moving LPG in the car , in case of problems like the one this topic mentioned.
That car did not have stickers and it was a nasty surprise for the FB when confronted by a hot cylinder inside the car.

I carry LPG in my work trailer and do have a LPG sticker just for safety sake and as a warning that it is there.
I also have a compressed gas sticker for other gases I carry as they can present their own problems in the event of an accident.

 

[Gabsgrandad]

Without getting too much involved in the argument, but I would always carry my bottles safely, whether they be in the caravan or in the car.This 'myth' about not laying bottles down is a little erroneous as thousands are used daily in the 'prone' position up and down the country in factories etc. (just as in picture,) never heard Calor telling us (or anyone else it's not the way to use their bottles and we used hundreds in the 40 years I did in the steel industry!).

 

[Damian]

The reason that many cylinders are used in the prone position is that the vehicle using them, the fork lift in your example, use liquid LPG, not gaseous LPG which caravans use.
The internal delivery tube must be in the liquid gas.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

The reason that many cylinders are used in the prone position is that the vehicle using them, the fork lift in your example, use liquid LPG, not gaseous LPG which caravans use.
The internal delivery tube must be in the liquid gas.

actually that is not correct. anyone who has driven a Gas FLT would know this. a gas driven FLT has a converted 4 stroke petrol engine. where the fuel used is gas vapour instead of petrol.
it is introduced into the engine by a gas converter instead of a carburettor or fuel injection. if liquid LPG was introduced into the engine it would probably explode on the inlet and compression strokes because as someone said earlier it expands 250 times in volume as it is converted to a gas.
the metering valve takes care of this function [similar to a demand valve on SCUBA gear] and converts the liquid to gas before entering the engine.
the reason the gas bottle is used in the prone position is so there is a gas layer between the top of the canister and the liquid to prevent over filling. the fill level is where the venting screw is. although this has nothing to do with transporting lesiure type cylinders I just thought I should comment as this point came up.

colin. [RITITB forklift instructor] 35years.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Colin,
Perhaps it's a matter of definition, but both you and Damian are correct. The horizontal cylinder on an FLT is designed to deliver lpg in its liquid form and is known as a liquid take off cylinder. It delivers liquid gas to the truck. At some point usually fitted directly on the engine, there will be a vapourisation system. The same system is fitted to LPG car conversions.

The reason liquid take off bottles are used, is that the power demand of an engine can exceed the capability of the bottle to deliver enough gas in its vapour phase, as its dependant on the ability of the bottle draw enough heat to vaporise its content. As the bottle is only delivering its liquid, the small volume of liquid used only drops the bottle pressure very little, and that is easily compensated by the vaporisation of the liquid in the bottle to re stabaliser the internal pressure.

The cylinders used in caravans are vapour take off. And the valve gear is different.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

yes John. that is all true except the said FLT's do not fun out of fuel and stop when the liquid has gone it will still run on the vapour left in the bottle until this has reached the point where the pressure is no longer sustainable for the gas valve to operate.
my response was to the following quote.

the fork lift in your example, use liquid LPG, not gaseous LPG which caravans use.

this makes it appear that the vehicle in question operates on liquid fuel much the same as diesels and petrols do and this of course is incorrect. as it runs on the gas produced by converting the liquid into a usable state so in fact it is just the same as the gas used in caravans. only the delivery system is different.

 

[saint-spoon]

Interesting topic.
We have to remember that liquid propane/butane acts in a very different way to the gaseous form; they can be treated as two very different substance despite being chemically the same compound. where a seal may hold a gas adequately a liquid may find a way to escape through capillary action or other means, they behave quite differently. as has been mentioned a few times, a liquid contains a lot more matter than the same volume of gas at the same pressure and as it expands into a gas it draws the latent heat that is requires to evaporate from its environment. Cooling a seal will make it less pliant and reduce it's ability to seal. I'd follow advice and always store them upright.

As for safety stickers, in short there is no legal requirement in the UK for any warning notices for leisure of domestic usage; the quantities are too small and domestic usage is exempt form quite a lot of the HSE stuff.