A9 Average Speed Cameras Switched On

[RogerL]

The single carriageway sections of the A9 from Perth to Inverness now have the average speed cameras activated - which means that the HGV limit on those stretches has been increased from 40 to 50mph.

Under the Scottish equivalent of ACPO guidelines which only prosecute at limit +10% +2mph, the HGVs will be able to do 56mph without prosecution, a speed which ties with their speed limiters.

Although not likely to be an issue at this time of year, caravanners sticking exactly to their 50 limit will be the cause of any convoy congestion next summer.

 

[Dustydog]

This road is one of the most dangerous in the UK.
I have seen an horrific accident caused by overtaking and speeding.
This is one road that desperately needs more dual carriageway.
I suspect you are right Roger and sadly may well see HGVs overtaking caravans in turn leading to more accidents.
I don't understsnd the extent of the margin given before prosecution. It doesn't help.

 

[RogerL]

It's often the car drivers, in general, that bunch up behind HGVs or caravans but won't/can't overtake when the road does become clear - this leads to a car driver further back in the queue who can/will overtake coming from so far back, determined to overtake the whole queue which is one vehicle too many and hits the oncoming traffic - with inevitable consequences with closing speeds of 120mph or more.

I've lost count of the number of times I've been at the head of a queue doing 50mph GPS and even when it's a straight road with nothing coming, good visibility for a mile, and I put the van wheels over the 1m side margin and indicate left - and still no-one bothers to overtake me.

I'll pull in and let the queue past if it's so busy there's no overtaking possible but not when it's easy just to overtake safely.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Generally when I want to do 50 mph on a normal road whilst towing the van I get held up by cars doing much less speed.

 

[ProfJohnL]

..................Under the Scottish equivalent of ACPO guidelines which only prosecute at limit +10% +2mph, the HGVs will be able to do 56mph without prosecution, a speed which ties with their speed limiters...............

Its worth remembering that neither ACPO or the guidelines they produce have any authority in law. It is therefore perfectly possible for a speed limit to applied rigidly with no leeway. Thus whilst it is very rare it is perfectly possible for a prosecution to be taken for as little as 1mph over the speed limit.

The reason for the guidelines is the chance of getting a conviction is less with only small overspeeds, where accuracy of measurement can be more easily challenged There is greater certainty of an offence with bigger overspeed delta's.

I cant remember which one but a few years ago one police authority declared that they were considering a zero tolerance on speeding.

Do not assume The ACPO guidelines apply every where.

 

[rosies]

I would think if slight over limit speeding ( 51mph +) on this stretch of the A9 , was proved in a accident then it would be automatic prosecution. But surely we caravanners or even just motorists come under the same ACPO guide lines limits +10 % +2mph ?

PS Even just motorists meaning if we are not towing , I'm not being insulting to other drivers :evil:

 

[RogerL]

ACPO guidelines only apply in England & Wales - the North Wales police used not to apply it but do now. Scotland isn't in ACPO but a similar set of guidelines applies there. The guidelines apply to all road users, at their respective limits on a particular road.

A full survey, done before the decision to install average speed cameras and increase the HGV limit from 40 to 50, showed that the average HGV speed was 51mph compared to the then 40 limit.

As John points out, they are only guidelines, and even 0.1mph over the limit is an offence - the guidelines are used to avoid total overload to the administrators if the limits were strictly applied - the guidelines also include upper levels above which a speed awareness course or fixed penalty isn't offered but full court prosecution follows, almost always with even higher penalties.

My personal view is that if ACPO guidelines are acceptable for single point speed cameras then the guideline levels should be lower for average speed cameras because maximum speeds must have been even higher.

 

[chrisbee1]

I appreciate Scotland has it's own set of laws but was wondering how they differentiate between this single carriageway road and any other with regards to LGV speed limits. What signage do they use to let LGV drivers know that the national speed limit does not apply? :huh:

 

[RogerL]

I think there is a specific sign showing a symbol of a HGV/LGV and referring to the 7.5 tonnes and 50mph - they're currently used on the A77 (at 40mph) to remind HGV/LGV drivers that the limit there is 40mph.

Scotland uses the same set of Euro-standard signs as England and Wales but can use 70/60 signs anywhere for NSL instead of the black oblique NSL that England & Wales use as 70/60 can only be used here on "special roads" which are a legally separate type of road but look the same to you and me!

 

[Dustydog]

To the best of my knowledge the A9 is the only non motorway dual carriageway to increase HGV speed to 50 mph from 40 mph
. The number of deaths and accidents on this road lead me to believe there will be a zero tolerance.

 

[RogerL]

To the best of my knowledge the A9 is the only non motorway dual carriageway to increase HGV speed to 50 mph from 40 mph
. The number of deaths and accidents on this road lead me to believe there will be a zero tolerance.

Non- motorway dual carriageways already have a 50 limit for HGVs. There's no increase on the dual carriageway sections of the A9, only the single carriageway stretches, and then only those with average speed cameras - the A9 north of Inverness which is single carriageway almost entirely will retain it's 40mph limit for HGVs.

This increase is being trialled in Scotland ONLY on the A9 between Perth and Inverness - all other single carriageway roads will remain at 40mph for HGVs.

On the other hand, the limit for HGVs will be raised from 40 to 50mph on all single carriageway roads in England & Wales next April - I guess it's likely that Scotland follows suit with it's other single carriageways.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I would think if slight over limit speeding ( 51mph +) on this stretch of the A9 , was proved in a accident then it would be automatic prosecution. But surely we caravanners or even just motorists come under the same ACPO guide lines limits +10 % +2mph ?

PS Even just motorists meaning if we are not towing , I'm not being insulting to other drivers :evil:

Hello Rosies,

The point of my post is to make it clear that ACPO guidelines have no authority in law, and as such you must not assume they do apply, In fact you should assume they do not apply, and the official speed limits is applied rigidly.

I don't always agree with the speed limit that's been set, but I always try to adhere to it. By contrast there are some people who deliberately and continually speed, They don't believe the speed limits apply to them. Frankly I think they deserve everything they get when they're caught.

I'm not whiter than white, I did inadvertently speed a number of years ago when I missed a change from 40 to 30mph on the entry to a dual carriage way, and was duly prosecuted (points and fine).

 

[RogerL]

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/download/file.php?id=8185&mode=view
This is one of the signs on the A9.

 

[Gafferbill]

........if you are on holiday and travelling on the A9 it is fun to turn off onto the old A9 for a more relaxing drive.
The new road sped up the journey considerably but is still not fast enough for some!
The sections of old road through Dalwhinnie, Tomatin, Carrbridge, Aviemore, Blair Atholl and Pitlochry are all worth a detour and you are still heading in the desired direction.
You can be a tourist at a much slower pace

 

[RogerL]

The stretch of B9152 in Aviemore itself has no merits, but plenty of shops, etc to fleece the tourists - the rest of the old route from Dalwhinnie to Carrbridge though is excellent to drive, solo or towing.

One huge caution though - BE CAREFUL WHEN REJOINING THE A9 - the junctions have very bad accident records on the A9 as too many people misjudge the speed of the traffic and the size of gap needed to pull out safely - obviously longer with the extra weight of a caravan.

 

[Raywood]

I have traveled this road many times and seen a lot of near misses. As I investigated accidents I was aware of the dangers usually caused by frustrated car drivers stuck behind slow moving lorries. A test was run with the help of Road Transport Magazine some time back to see what difference lorries traveling at 50 rather than 40 made and it was very clear that this caused a lot less frustration and less risk taking by car drivers. Only time will tell how well it all works but it does look very likely to reduce accidents considerably.
I know a lot of lorries did exceed the 40 speed limit but the ones that did not held them up so they had little effect but to produce long queues of lorries.