Alde hot water on the panel

[JTQ]

Not ALDE's problem. Not sure if anyone can blame the caravan manufacturer either as surely people should use common sense and check before sticking their hands under a hot water top? Why do so many people want to be in a nanny cocoon?

Did I not read elsewhere some don't even read their cars manuals!

IMO if something can be so dangerous that it scalds or could easily kill through that, then I am all for living in a society that ensures so fundamentally poor, irresponsible or negligent kit is not marketed; I don't want a care free society, just a responsible one.

 

[Buckman]

Did I not read elsewhere some don't even read their cars manuals!
I don't want a care free society, just a responsible one.

That is the problem. Many people want others to be responsible for their well being! Responsible adults should be supervising children!

 

[Malx]

It's seems correct that if the central heating fluid surrounds the domestic hot water tank then heat will be transferred thus heating the hot water. For this not to happen would require a good amount of re-design by Alde.

The control panel is quite misleading in that it is easy to assume that if the hot water symbol is 'greyed out' then you have no hot water, especially if you have no basic technical knowledge of how the system works.

From experience I found out that after assuming no hot water I found the temperature to be scalding from the tap in the shower room just in time before my 5 year old grandchild went in to wash her hands before tea !! The CH temperature was set at 20 degrees.

I think that this safety problem situation needs addressing by Alde by furnishing a warning to their outlets and consumers.

i saw something in the manual warning about this …. But who reads manuals fully? it would be possible to fit an automatic mixer that limits the maximum water temperature. But one would need fitting to the bathroom sink and shower. As a safety device fitting one to the shower during caravan manufacture would seem highly desirable.

 

[Jcloughie]

Not ALDE's problem. Not sure if anyone can blame the caravan manufacturer either as surely people should use common sense and check before sticking their hands under a hot water top? Why do so many people want to be in a nanny cocoon?

Yes, it is not Alde’s problem. Their product runs very hot for very good reasons and the caravan manufacturers know this.

But it is most certainly the caravan manufacturers' responsibility to produce a product that is as safe as reasonably possible.

High-end caravans are fitting with thermostats now. They are not too expensive (except for the Alde one).

It might mean a severe scalding and a court case to bring other manufacturers and the industry up to date.

Institutions have had to fit thermostats for many many years now. Domestically, boilers do not run that hot, but nevertheless, thermostats are commonplace and a legal requirement since 2010. Another example of an industry that is out of step.

Quote

Thermostatic mixing valves (TMVs) are a fundamental part of any hot water system. Designed with safety in mind, they are used to blend hot and cold water to a temperaturewhich mitigates the risk of scalding, while allowing hot water systems to run at high enough temperatures to prevent Legionella bacteria from breeding.

TMVs are regulated by law. In 2010 it became a legal requirement to install TMVs in all commercial and domestic new builds, as well as properties undergoing a ‘change of use’ after 2012. TMVs are also regulated by the Thermostatic Mixing Valve Manufacturers’ Recommended Code of Practice for Safe Water Temperatures, the NHS EstatesGuidance Note for Safe Hot Water and the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).



John

 

[Jcloughie]

i saw something in the manual warning about this …. But who reads manuals fully? it would be possible to fit an automatic mixer that limits the maximum water temperature. But one would need fitting to the bathroom sink and shower. As a safety device fitting one to the shower during caravan manufacture would seem highly desirable.

Only one valve needs to be fitted to cover the whole water system. But yes, the shower is the most important. But just as easy for one which covers the wash hand basin and the shower to be fitted.

John

 

[otherclive]

Only one valve needs to be fitted to cover the whole water system. But yes, the shower is the most important. But just as easy for one which covers the wash hand basin and the shower to be fitted.

John

Wouldn’t you need an uncontrolled hot tap for the kitchen sink ?

 

[Jcloughie]

Wouldn’t you need an uncontrolled hot tap for the kitchen sink ?

Not necessarily. But that might be an advantage for hotter water for dishwashing and is how I put my system in.

I don't know how the manufacturers that fit them, fit them.

John

 

[Malx]

Only one valve needs to be fitted to cover the whole water system. But yes, the shower is the most important. But just as easy for one which covers the wash hand basin and the shower to be fitted.

John
[/QUOTE

i Can see that you could get away with on thermostatic valve, but don’t you need a higher temperature at the kitchen sink?

 

[Milkfloat]

Not exactly cheap - but it is possible - https://www.bes.co.uk/tempering-valve-safety-temperature-reduction-15mm-20759/?q=20759
A cheaper version is https://www.bes.co.uk/thermostatic-mixing-valve-tmv-2-3-15mm-12162/ but only goes to 46 degrees.

 

[Jcloughie]

Not exactly cheap - but it is possible - https://www.bes.co.uk/tempering-valve-safety-temperature-reduction-15mm-20759/?q=20759
A cheaper version is https://www.bes.co.uk/thermostatic-mixing-valve-tmv-2-3-15mm-12162/ but only goes to 46 degrees.

You can get them much cheaper than that. See here.

Amazon.co.uk : Tmv

The downside is you also will need 12mm to 15mm reducers which are 3 x £5 approx. The Alde version comes ready for 12mm fitting but is more costly. However, is also more compact. So may be the best buy. They are actually cheaper now than they were a couple of years ago.

Alde Thermostatic Mixer Valve 12mm Speedfit TMV3

shop.caravanclub.co.uk

If anyone is looking for one search for ‘tmv’

John

 

[JTQ]

A cheaper version is https://www.bes.co.uk/thermostatic-mixing-valve-tmv-2-3-15mm-12162/ but only goes to 46 degrees.

Which temperature nicely aligns with at least the NHS limit of 41C for "care" sector applications and their maximum limit for use elsewhere of 43C, but falls short of the UK domestic use upper limit of 48C.

However, overly hot showers are in themselves not healthy so a 46C limit ought to more than suit those really focused on "safe" showering, as well as being quite adequate for bathroom washbasins. The kitchen faucet I would personally leave at supply temperature.

 

[otherclive]

I’m in the process of installing a new digital shower in our en suite. It’s maximum temperature is 48 deg C but MIRA advise this not to be used for other than filling a bath, as 48 deg C allows for cooling during filling. But it is being fitted to a shower unit so its temperature setting will be below the maximum. Main worry will be that Mrs OC could turn it to cold via its app when I’m using it. 😂

 

[Hutch]

I’m in the process of installing a new digital shower in our en suite. It’s maximum temperature is 48 deg C but MIRA advise this not to be used for other than filling a bath, as 48 deg C allows for cooling during filling. But it is being fitted to a shower unit so its temperature setting will be below the maximum. Main worry will be that Mrs OC could turn it to cold via its app when I’m using it. 😂

Good grief, why on earth would you want your shower temperature being controlled by an App on your Phone /tablet etc. A friend of mine has a washing machine and tumble dryer that can be controlled /set by Apps.
Overkill surely.

 

[otherclive]

Good grief, why on earth would you want your shower temperature being controlled by an App on your Phone /tablet etc. A friend of mine has a washing machine and tumble dryer that can be controlled /set by Apps.
Overkill surely.

Totally agree. I don’t but it comes with it, as well as Alexa controls. Doesn’t mean I plan to use it, but the new one is to replace an obsolete failed Bristan that takes its supplies from a loft manifold and brings them down a concentric tube to the heat and control valves. I could have a bar mixer but would need two vertical pipes running down the wall, or else its a big job to remove tiles and cut into the stud wall. So a modern vertical feed digital shower saves time plus no risk to tiles. I’ve only got four spares.

Here’s a link. Ignore the prices as Plumbworld are much cheaper. I agree there are features that quite frankly aren’t really required but that’s no different to other things these days, including caravans.

https://www.mirashowers.co.uk/showers/digital-showers/

 

[Buckman]

Good grief, why on earth would you want your shower temperature being controlled by an App on your Phone /tablet etc. A friend of mine has a washing machine and tumble dryer that can be controlled /set by Apps.
Overkill surely.
[/QUOTE]

Yep our washing machine and tumble drier have that facility, but we have never seen the need to use them. However we still pay for the facility whether or not you want them.

 

[Dustydog]

To this day the old tried and tested Truma Ultrastore can be set to 70 deg C. Never been scalded yet. The distance from Truma to shower usually means the cold water in the hot pipe comes out first, warms, and simply add cold water via mixer tap. The OP was keen to save power. What happened to the off switch😜😜

 

[ProfJohnL]

In the UK there are numerous regulations in place to help manage safe water inc temperatures, but the values of permitted temperatures is dependant on how the appliance is categorised.

You also have to be wary of variations that are application specific. When I was involved with electrically heated storage water heaters, we had to ensure the take off temperature did not exceed 68C.

I would not be surprised if new regulations have come into force since I worked in the sector 30 years ago.