Hello can anyone help me I will attach a pic the shower pic on the panel is green does this mean it's on or of, also what's the best way for me to cut down on electric cost the alde seems to be costing the most
Many thanks 😊
Many thanks 😊
Alde hot water on the panel
- Thread starter Hells70
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- Nov 11, 2009
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The only real way to cut down on electric cost is to use the appliances less - turn the thermostat down for the room heating and use less hot water
- Jun 16, 2020
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From memory, the shower symbol refers to extra hot water. All it does is prioritise hot water by restricting the pump for a short duration if a lot of showers are required. We never find a need to use it. Just give it 10 mins between showers.
Electric cost is simple, therms in for HW are heating will cost ££££. Therms used is either, useful and needed for your needs. Then there is therms lost. Either by overuse or lost through poor insulation (even new caravans are comparatively poorly insulated), and/or draughts, or doors and windows left open. Some ventilation is important but in moderation.
John
Electric cost is simple, therms in for HW are heating will cost ££££. Therms used is either, useful and needed for your needs. Then there is therms lost. Either by overuse or lost through poor insulation (even new caravans are comparatively poorly insulated), and/or draughts, or doors and windows left open. Some ventilation is important but in moderation.
John
If the Alde is "ON" you simply can't avoid it generating hot water, if of course it is filled with water.
That is the way it works.
There will be a function to temporarily stop the CH working for a short while, and increase the water temperature, from its normal level. This is there for those who want longer periods of showering, simply hotter water to add to the cold, thus ending up with more at typical showering temperature of 42 C.
During this period none of the energy is lost going into the radiators, it all goes to the water.
There will be a switch function to bring this feature in, a timer will also take it off.
Space heating a van, by whatever means will "eat" energy, all heating is energy greedy.
Space heating using the Alde system will use even more than some means, as it heats the whole. Blown air or a stand alone heater, can be set just to warm those things near it, so potentially use less energy, though away from the heater things will be that bit colder. You sit in the warm, elsewhere it's a lot colder than in the warmed bit.
Running at lower temperatures will make significant savings on space heating.
That is the way it works.
There will be a function to temporarily stop the CH working for a short while, and increase the water temperature, from its normal level. This is there for those who want longer periods of showering, simply hotter water to add to the cold, thus ending up with more at typical showering temperature of 42 C.
During this period none of the energy is lost going into the radiators, it all goes to the water.
There will be a switch function to bring this feature in, a timer will also take it off.
Space heating a van, by whatever means will "eat" energy, all heating is energy greedy.
Space heating using the Alde system will use even more than some means, as it heats the whole. Blown air or a stand alone heater, can be set just to warm those things near it, so potentially use less energy, though away from the heater things will be that bit colder. You sit in the warm, elsewhere it's a lot colder than in the warmed bit.
Running at lower temperatures will make significant savings on space heating.
JTQ, with respect, that's not quite right. The central heating and hot water system of the Alde boiler are separate. This is how you can run the heating without a fresh water supply being connected. On the Alde control panel you can turn the hot water off by pressing the shower head symbol.
Hells70: Below is a link to s short video which explains the functions of he control panel.
I now have a refillable SafeFill LPG bottle and I tend to start the heating on gas and when it's warmed up switch over to electricity. On a recent stay on a CL with a 10Kw per day electricity cap we had the heating set to 21° in the morning for a couple of hours and then from about 4pm in the afternoon to 10:30pm when I turned it down to 16°.
For a 12 night stay I paid £3 for the electricity I'd used over the cap.
What I precisely stated, was right.
"If the Alde is "ON" you simply can't avoid it generating hot water, if of course it is filled with water."
The water jacket shrouds the CH inhibited fluid, all under the jacket of insulation.
If the fresh water volume is filled, as stated, then you generate hot water if the Alde is on; no if or buts.
You can't turn "off" the hot water, the hot water "on off" provision as also stated, only achieves two things, it switches off the signal to the CH circulating pump, so the heating energy can't dissipate via the radiators [ie no CH], and brings in a higher temperature thermostat so the stored water gets that bit higher. This function is on a limited period timer.
That of course the two fluids are separated, they have to be, in no way alters they interact, indeed the only heating energy the hot water receives is from the inhibited water, from either that's immersion elements or the gas burner can, or both together.
As already stated, if the Alde is "on", you can't turn it off generating hot water, if it has water in it.
You can turn off supplying that hot water to faucets, though not on the Adle panel, only on the van's water system itself.
The hot water control available on the Alde, only switches off the CH, and elevates the hot water temperature above its base level, and that only temporarily.
It is a provision that utilises as much heating energy to heat the water as it can offer, plus to raise the temperature of that hot water higher than normal, so at user temperatures it goes further.
Probably stating the obvious though, it can't heat water if it has no water in it to heat up.
However, that's a normal designed in provision, without doing harm, to be able to run the CH without water.
What it must never be asked to do is be run without the inhibiting fluid.
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- Jul 18, 2017
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We at exactly the same thoughts and hated the ALDE heating in our 2011 Lunar Delta TI until we found out that Lunar had not installed it as per the manufacturer's specifications. Once we had the modification done, no more issues. ALDE in our current caravan is brilliant and easy to use.
- Jun 16, 2020
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JTQ is completely correct. However the instructions are not helpful in respect of hot water. This picture clearly shows that the water jacket surrounds the glycol jacket. Therefore if the water jacket has water in it, it cannot help but to be heated.
But if hot water is not required, the instructions seem to suggest it can be turned off.
In reality this simply means that the system prioritises heating.
Why anyone would connect the system to a water supply then NOT require to use hot water. Defeats me.
Clearly stated by someone who has not experienced the comfort provided by full wet heating. Like Buckman. My system was not installed properly by Lunar. Wrong pump selected in the settings, Alde sorted this and it works a treat.
John
But if hot water is not required, the instructions seem to suggest it can be turned off.
In reality this simply means that the system prioritises heating.
Why anyone would connect the system to a water supply then NOT require to use hot water. Defeats me.
Clearly stated by someone who has not experienced the comfort provided by full wet heating. Like Buckman. My system was not installed properly by Lunar. Wrong pump selected in the settings, Alde sorted this and it works a treat.
John
- Nov 11, 2009
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I have experienced the "comfort" of an Aide system when visiting friends in their caravan. I've also experienced many comfortable days/nights in my own caravan with blown air and separate heating. Given a free choice if selecting caravan I would still opt for blown air and water with the two functions separated. I'm not a fan of combi either....eggs and baskets.
- Mar 10, 2006
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Yes just turn off the hot water, then with the heating turned low no electricity is used.JTQ, with respect, that's not quite right. The central heating and hot water system of the Alde boiler are separate. This is how you can run the heating without a fresh water supply being connected. On the Alde control panel you can turn the hot water off by pressing the shower head symbol.
Hells70: Below is a link to s short video which explains the functions of he control panel.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJmPeiltGAU
I now have a refillable SafeFill LPG bottle and I tend to start the heating on gas and when it's warmed up switch over to electricity. On a recent stay on a CL with a 10Kw per day electricity cap we had the heating set to 21° in the morning for a couple of hours and then from about 4pm in the afternoon to 10:30pm when I turned it down to 16°.
For a 12 night stay I paid £3 for the electricity I'd used over the cap.
Check power consumption by looking at the current read out.
I don't know which of the Alde 3020, boiler or associated control manuals, user or service you refer, but the fact remains just as I stated;
" if the Alde is "on", you can't turn it off generating hot water, if it has water in it."
Just as John has now posted, the fresh water part of the boiler is wrapped around the stainless steel inhibited water "cannister" of the boiler, so can't possible avoid been heated up, reflecting the inhibited water's temperature, by conduction, if there is water in there.
The control panel, whatever its icons or its write ups might imply to some, can't alter that physical inherent characteristic of the boiler. The "hot water" function only manages the heating of the hot water, to avoid heat energy loss to the CH, and to elevate up from the normal hot water temperature.
I'm with you OC - a well-sorted Truma Ultraheat blown air system outperforms an Alde system - I suggest that many who found/find Alde a big improvement had a badly installed Ultraheat before - any underfloor ducting needed to be properly insulated, once that was done it performed well.
It will still use electricity, as with the Alde "on" the inhibited water, and any water in its hot water section will be heated up, whether the "Hot water" function is "on or off".
An Alde boiler sits charged with heated inhibited fluid 24x 7 if "on". So energy either electric or gas combustion has to be consumed to get it hot, and periodically to keep it at its set "normal" fluid temperature.
As with all hot things they cool if no energy is added.
In its natural "on" but quiescent state with no CH or drawn water demands, the heat energy to keep it there is prioritised to use electricity if that is available.
That algorithm is extended to use only electricity where "use" demands can be achieved by the electricity available and level preset, ie 1,2 or 3 kW, alone.
Additionally, you can opt to add in a feature to monitor and ensure the Alde's electrical loads on top of all else, don't trip supply circuit breakers.
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I am in no way "unsure" on how the Alde boiler functions.
Clearly, and far from surprising, others lack any depth of knowledge on their Alde boilers.
Unfortunately, forums as they are, enable both correct information, and lots of misinformed, though probably not realised, information to circulate.
Re the panels "hot water" no/off function,
I thought I had gone to some length to explain the function Alde provide, and from that one should be able to understand why they provide users with that useful function.
A little test to help the penny drop, if not the understanding:
Put on Alde boiler, electric or gas or even both and ensure panel "hot water" function is "off".
Wait, 30 minutes.
Draw off water from the hot tap for a a short while; prove to yourself or not
, not the slightest hint of warm water ever comes out.
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- Jun 16, 2020
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My last blown air was in a Bailey Senator, (whatever system that was). So admittedly I cannot make comparisons to more modern blown air systems. But of one thing I am certain. Compared to that, and to vans previous to that. The Alde is streets ahead. The house we are in used to have blown air heating. It was useless and expensive to operate.
John
- Nov 11, 2009
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Comparisons between the old domestic blown air heating and a caravan system aren’t really relevant as they differ like chalk and cheese. My caravans of various types have had blown air and were very comfy, but one significant attribute was its ability if ever required to provide heat on gas alone without any requirement for electric supplies, excluding the piezo or small Duracell igniter. What is more the blown system is quite easy to understand, which seems not to always be the case with Alde.
But the Forum has had this debate a number of times and as BB would say “ each to their own”.
An attribute only of those that feature convection. No "blown heating" can be achieved without energy to "blow", typically requiring 12 volts DC.
However, those convection type exemplified by the "S" series were good in that the convected heat was in itself often adequate and quickly locally, available, though so challenging to "design in" simply because they convected very hot air.
They also faced real challenges with space heating larger vans, being better suited to the smaller vans more common back in time. Ducting losses, high DP so inherently noisier fans, all coming with increase van volumes/lengths.
These issues resulting in the greater adoption of non convection blown air heaters, which likewise to water based required circulating energy again 12 volts, and typically to achieve high heat outputs burner blowers as well.
I have to say I am very pro Alde's wet system in vans of the size we have had for the last 20 plus years.
I do draw distinct similarities between the water and blown air pros & cons, van to domestic CH options.
In both home and van we prefer a warm ambiance, to breezes with local "hot spots", and very much prefer the reduced dehydration.
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Bailey were one of the manufacturers who didn't insulate underfloor ducting runs - no wonder their owners thought the end result was inferior. I took the trouble on my Bailey to insulate the underfloor run, with a result that would be difficult to better - and it warmed up quicker in cold weather.
- Jun 16, 2020
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You are correct, the Alde does seem to be more difficult to understand. The degree of integration and automation is extensive. But in normal everyday use I simply set the required temp and forget it except to make thermostat adjustments for evenings or going out. And that’s it.
Many are let down by the incompetence of the caravan designers to adopt Alde’s recommendations for installation. But Alde are extremely reliable and supportive As a system and a company.
John
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My model did not have that ducting. Nevertheless. Trying to persuade heat to get to the bathroom was difficult. I was happy with it on the whole. But still would not go back to blown air. But would not condemn one of the new systems without having experience.
John
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