Hi everyone have been looking at the Alko system and it seems to do a brilliant job, I'd love it on my van.
The thing that gets me though is where does
The thing that gets me though is where does
Hi Tom,
I take it from your posting that you don't think there's too much inside the AL-KO ATC box - well how about an accelerometer, a micro-computer, and a high power solenoid to push the brakes on - and the system must fail safe if power fials - then wrap in a water proof box.
I've designed enough process analysers for chemical plants and refineries to have a reasonable understanding of these systems, and it doesn't sound too bad. Actually we have loads of similar electronics and actuators in our research and fabrication labs - and it'd cost me more just to put the modules on the bench, let alone actually make something from them...
Robert
I take it from your posting that you don't think there's too much inside the AL-KO ATC box - well how about an accelerometer, a micro-computer, and a high power solenoid to push the brakes on - and the system must fail safe if power fials - then wrap in a water proof box.
I've designed enough process analysers for chemical plants and refineries to have a reasonable understanding of these systems, and it doesn't sound too bad. Actually we have loads of similar electronics and actuators in our research and fabrication labs - and it'd cost me more just to put the modules on the bench, let alone actually make something from them...
Robert
Hi Rob
I realise there's some pretty sophisticated stuff in the dolly mixture box, then there's a solenoid, a waterproof box, motion sensors et al.
I worked for 35 years in engineering and for the last 10-15 years was working in the breakdown area on high speed logic controlled machines, with microprocessors, hydraulics, pneumatics etc. perhaps slightly more sophisticated than the Alko unit.
So yes Rob I've a pretty good idea how it does what it does and how much better and up to date this system is than a friction unit stuck on the towball.
Yes I would love it fitted to my new van, yes I would feel possibly more confident towing in certain condtions but I still get this feeling of going into the dealers for various items, especially safety and securtiy that the price bears no relationship to what you're getting.
I remember a few years ago driving a car on a test track with switchable ABS (with/without) and boy was I impressed.
I was also in a BMW (high end) with traction control being demonstrated on the same track.
The ATC unit is in this bracket, really it's a must, but do you hear of manufacturers raving on the same extent about ABS and traction control anymore and why the car is dearer because of this. Most cars have it fitted standard anyway and that's what'll happen to the ATC on Alko chassis, I believe Bailey alreay are.
I guess you're paying 400 quid until they start knocking them out in quantity and they're standard on the van.
Best regards
Tomo
I realise there's some pretty sophisticated stuff in the dolly mixture box, then there's a solenoid, a waterproof box, motion sensors et al.
I worked for 35 years in engineering and for the last 10-15 years was working in the breakdown area on high speed logic controlled machines, with microprocessors, hydraulics, pneumatics etc. perhaps slightly more sophisticated than the Alko unit.
So yes Rob I've a pretty good idea how it does what it does and how much better and up to date this system is than a friction unit stuck on the towball.
Yes I would love it fitted to my new van, yes I would feel possibly more confident towing in certain condtions but I still get this feeling of going into the dealers for various items, especially safety and securtiy that the price bears no relationship to what you're getting.
I remember a few years ago driving a car on a test track with switchable ABS (with/without) and boy was I impressed.
I was also in a BMW (high end) with traction control being demonstrated on the same track.
The ATC unit is in this bracket, really it's a must, but do you hear of manufacturers raving on the same extent about ABS and traction control anymore and why the car is dearer because of this. Most cars have it fitted standard anyway and that's what'll happen to the ATC on Alko chassis, I believe Bailey alreay are.
I guess you're paying 400 quid until they start knocking them out in quantity and they're standard on the van.
Best regards
Tomo
I would tend to agree with you, Tom. Judging by the content of the ATC system, I would estimate that it could be produced to retail at around
In reply to earlier comments on the lines of do you really need the extra kit, i have to say yes.
We have been vanning for over 25years and have never had a snake. I am very careful in the loading of the van and check the noseweight.
A couple of years ago we were on our way for the weekend and driving along adual carriageway at 60mph.
As we came to a slip road a car was coming to join the lane I was in, I had a car coming up in the outside lane so could not move out to let him in.
Usually when cars see a van like this they either accelerate away or slow down to let you get ahead.
This one just pulled across towards me. I swerved to avoid him and set up the most horrendous snake.
So with the van loaded and driven correctly I experienced a snake - I just wish I had ATC then.
We have been vanning for over 25years and have never had a snake. I am very careful in the loading of the van and check the noseweight.
A couple of years ago we were on our way for the weekend and driving along adual carriageway at 60mph.
As we came to a slip road a car was coming to join the lane I was in, I had a car coming up in the outside lane so could not move out to let him in.
Usually when cars see a van like this they either accelerate away or slow down to let you get ahead.
This one just pulled across towards me. I swerved to avoid him and set up the most horrendous snake.
So with the van loaded and driven correctly I experienced a snake - I just wish I had ATC then.
When we where at the N.E.C. show in November we visited the Al-co stand to get some information about the Al-co ATC. My wife entered the competion to win one. We had a phone call about a fortnight ago saying we were one of twenty five winners, just waiting to have it fitted at their factory in Southam, Warwickshire.The only problem we have is that while on holiday at Dornafield somebody reversed into our caravan with a towbar ahd put a hole straight through the rear bathroom (Spectrum 540) . Going to cost about 3k to fix.
In my humble opinion this should be MANDATORY on all new caravans!
We have it, saved my bacon on one occasion which was one too much, without it car and caravan would have been toast, (note second breakfast reference š)
Its a fabulous system but like all things mechanical it can fail, I found out that a flat caravan battery renders the ATC inoperative. 2016 Coachman Pastiche
The Alko ATC is well worth it, had it activate once. I towed delivering caravans for two years without ATC. Horrible compared to with ATC.
Exactly what I thought, but I found out first tow last year that it (on my caravan) doesn't.
The caravan battery was dead flat as the motor mover didn't!
Nipped down Halfords, 10% AA discount, put on a new leasure battery, ATC worked straight up, so ATC power is definitely integrated into my caravan.
I guess there is the possibility that the caravan battery which takes charge from the car dragged down the 12v? I am not a fundi on car electrics.
possibly.I guess there is the possibility that the caravan battery which takes charge from the car dragged down the 12v? I am not a fundi on car electrics.
The story was we brought the caravan home from our pitch and store site to make ready for a trip to Cornwall last year, set off Friday a few hours before lockdown was lifted.
Mover didn't, and I wasn't expecting it to I knew the battery was on its last legs, plugged in and to my surprise no ATC self test, tried several times, car engine on, off, at revs but nothing.
Set off pulled into the services bought a can of WD40, gave the plug and socket a squirt, brain was churning away as to why no ATC as you say I thought the power came from the car, still after a clean no ATC.
At home made a list of what needed doing, set about the jobs including battery replacement. So I was going to ask my neighbour a caravan mobile bod to have a look then just out of curiosity I plugged into the car and hey presto working ATC.
So my conclusion was as posted.
From my understanding the ATC is powered by the sustained 12 V supply from the car, the one that also charges the van's battery when the fridge supply switches the habitation relay.
So if you plug the caravan in without the car engine running the ATC is not connected to the van's battery,
When you start the car, then both the ATC and the van's battery charging are sharing the car's battery feed.
With a "dead brick" of a van battery sapping everything it can draw, I would expect little is left for the ATC, the current and resistance pulling the volts way down. I think your findings can be explained by that configuration, It should be remembered not all caravans come with batteries, nor is one required for the ATC to function, however it is understandable a duff one could screw the ATC up.
If using the 13 pin coupling, this permanent feed has its +ve on pin 9, its -ve on pin 13.
The fridge and habitation relay are powered via, pin 10 +ve, pin 11 -ve.
Edit: I note you are now saying the ATC did not work even with the car engine stopped, strong indications here something else is wrong with your system, habitation relay?
So for anyone reading or simply for the memory bank of ATC faults maybe the quick get out of jail FIX to get home would have been to disconnect the caravan battery?
This was last year, everything works perfectly on the caravan only thing done was changed the leisure battery, oh and deep clean, removed everything and weighed marked it upon return.
You may have ATC and never know its working, which is exactly what you want. Having had it, i wouldnt be without it.
It would be illogical to have ATC or any other towing related or safety equipment powered by the caravan battery, As was reported if the battery used all its charge whilst travelling then the safety device would malfunction.
It should be exclusively be powered by the tow vehicle.
As for the use of ATC or any other optional safety system, as they are not required to be fitted by construction and use regulations, so they should not be relied on to make an unstable outfit drivable. They are a belt and braces item which might help on the odd occasion.
If you have such a device and find it is operating frequently, then you should be looking for the reason its operating and removing the cause, whether that's changing your loading strategy, or driving more carefully, prevention is better than cure.
It should be exclusively be powered by the tow vehicle.
As for the use of ATC or any other optional safety system, as they are not required to be fitted by construction and use regulations, so they should not be relied on to make an unstable outfit drivable. They are a belt and braces item which might help on the odd occasion.
If you have such a device and find it is operating frequently, then you should be looking for the reason its operating and removing the cause, whether that's changing your loading strategy, or driving more carefully, prevention is better than cure.
For those with a wish to consider and understand their ATC better;
Prof that is an interesting comment with which I fully agree with its underlying message, but the ATC is a relatively dumb system, not taking all factors into account so can intervene when there is no danger.
Understanding this can be beneficial in so far as noting its intervention can be confidence assuring, its intervention does not always require seeking a cure, as your comment might be taken to imply.
It detects swaying motions, such motions that, if encountered under some conditions can preempt an uncontrolled snake. However, such motion can naturally occur where the van speed is so low things will not go wrong.
One case that occurs, where it intervenes is the rolling of the van as you creep over a bumpy rally field, or even travel obliquely over a sleeping policeman. Another is the switchback motion tracking round and out of a tight roundabout, the common feature though is at very low speed.
Here, the very swaying the ATC is designed to detect is there and it intervenes, though the other factor, kinetic energy from "speed" is not there, so a snake can't develop, nor of course can the ATC take its speed killing action, its only tool to abate the snake.
Understanding, that you will note the ATC dabbing the brakes under these low energy conditions is IMO a healthy "tool" we have, knowing it is functioning as designed, the more so as we really have no other way of knowing its sensing electronics has not failed.
The one and only time my ATC kicked in the outfit had started to snakeš.
The caravan applied the brakes once briefly, the outfit continued to snake, then the ATC locked both caravan wheels which did the trick.
Interesting experience, we had travelled around 125 motorway miles when it happened and travelled a further 240 miles without changing a thing after!
I did pull into the next services to check things over weight wise etc, but found nothing wrong.
The caravan applied the brakes once briefly, the outfit continued to snake, then the ATC locked both caravan wheels which did the trick.
Interesting experience, we had travelled around 125 motorway miles when it happened and travelled a further 240 miles without changing a thing after!
I did pull into the next services to check things over weight wise etc, but found nothing wrong.
We had a very bad snake prior to caravans having ATC. I took my foot off accelerator to slow down the car, then gently accelerated again which pulled the outfit straight. Later pulled over to change underpants!
I make all connections to my car before I start the engine, as soon a I plug in the 13 pin socket to the car the ATC goes through itās checks and connects and the light goes solid green after a short period of flashes so the only conclusion I can make is itās powered from the car, Iāve only had ATC for a few months and hope to never find out if it reacts to an unstable situation.
BP
BP
The important phrase I deliberately used was " it is operating frequently " The occasional blip shouldn't be ignored but its more than likely nothing too serious. It very muck like seat belts, most of teh time they offer no practical benefit, but just occasionally even with normal driving you can feel their reassurance.
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