Sorry to disappoint you both, I don't work for Swift or Polyplastic.However Ido enjoy my Swift caravan. This particular topic has now come down to a personal crusade for Alan and Jo Anne
john, it isnt a personel crusade for Alan and i against polyplastic or swift or yourself. Had i have known that these window frames do this i wouldnt have bought that model I would have gone for a jewel or maybe another manu.
If you had read my earlier posts i asked if dave worked for polyplastic not you.
im not happy about the windows as I have said before if you had read my earlier posts I bought the van to work around my family I didnt buy the van for us to work around the van. if you had I would be taking everybody points, help and advice on board and be using it when I go away next week.
If some people cant give help and advice and just want to have a go at Alan and I for being annoyed that these vans wich we spent over
If you had read my earlier posts i asked if dave worked for polyplastic not you.
im not happy about the windows as I have said before if you had read my earlier posts I bought the van to work around my family I didnt buy the van for us to work around the van. if you had I would be taking everybody points, help and advice on board and be using it when I go away next week.
If some people cant give help and advice and just want to have a go at Alan and I for being annoyed that these vans wich we spent over
Damian
Moderator
- Mar 14, 2005
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OK folks, before this topic ends up as a personal thing lets not go there.
As far as I can see, the problem can only be sorted out by the dealer, with whom you have the contract.
The dealer may or may not have recourse to the manufacturer, and it seems that he does, and that Swift have responded so far.
I can fully understand Swift not replying on this , or any other forum, to individual cases, where it may well end up in litigation.
As far as this topic goes I think it is time to draw a line under it until AFTER the outcome of any negotiations between owners, dealers and Swift.
As far as I can see, the problem can only be sorted out by the dealer, with whom you have the contract.
The dealer may or may not have recourse to the manufacturer, and it seems that he does, and that Swift have responded so far.
I can fully understand Swift not replying on this , or any other forum, to individual cases, where it may well end up in litigation.
As far as this topic goes I think it is time to draw a line under it until AFTER the outcome of any negotiations between owners, dealers and Swift.
- Jun 20, 2005
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Hi Damian
1. May I thank all the constructive contributors who recognise the problem I, Jo-anne and others have suffered and their suggested solutions.
2. Neither I nor Jo-anne have ever reduced this thread to a personal attack although I have to say I am quite surprised at some of the very condescending comments we have received from one or two quarters.
3. I have a Bailey Senator series 6 Wyoming, Jo-anne has a Sterling Elite Onyx. We both paid nearly
1. May I thank all the constructive contributors who recognise the problem I, Jo-anne and others have suffered and their suggested solutions.
2. Neither I nor Jo-anne have ever reduced this thread to a personal attack although I have to say I am quite surprised at some of the very condescending comments we have received from one or two quarters.
3. I have a Bailey Senator series 6 Wyoming, Jo-anne has a Sterling Elite Onyx. We both paid nearly
Jo-anne and Alan,
We have just spent 8 nights at Blackmore Caravan club site in our 2007 Swift Conqueror.
Jo-anne Blackmore is one of our favourite sites. Even allowing for the very wet and windy weather the site was in excellent condition and a good level of occupancy for the time of year. The pathways in the dog walk have been covered in wood chippings so no mud to contend with.
As I have stated in earlier comments on this thread we did as i have advised other people to do to avoid condensation. During the whole time we were there we never had any condensation. Speaking to a couple of other caravaneers on site with new caravans with alloy windows, the message was loud and clear. Heating on 24/7 and correct use of extractor fan--no problems with condensation. We were cooking in our caravans, but most people seemed to be using the site shower facilities.
A couple of times our dog had to be dried off in the caravan but still no condensation.We never let the temp in the caravan drop below appros 60 degrees.
There are some nice pubs not far from the site serving good food.
Hamer
We have just spent 8 nights at Blackmore Caravan club site in our 2007 Swift Conqueror.
Jo-anne Blackmore is one of our favourite sites. Even allowing for the very wet and windy weather the site was in excellent condition and a good level of occupancy for the time of year. The pathways in the dog walk have been covered in wood chippings so no mud to contend with.
As I have stated in earlier comments on this thread we did as i have advised other people to do to avoid condensation. During the whole time we were there we never had any condensation. Speaking to a couple of other caravaneers on site with new caravans with alloy windows, the message was loud and clear. Heating on 24/7 and correct use of extractor fan--no problems with condensation. We were cooking in our caravans, but most people seemed to be using the site shower facilities.
A couple of times our dog had to be dried off in the caravan but still no condensation.We never let the temp in the caravan drop below appros 60 degrees.
There are some nice pubs not far from the site serving good food.
Hamer
- Jun 20, 2005
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Hi Hamer
We were at Blackmore 4 weeks ago. The warden was just finishing off the wood chippings in the dog walk. Shame it isn't bigger.
We used the Bluebell Inn a few times , good food at reasonable prices. The best Chinese takeaway is the Wok and Roll.
I think your solution re the heating is the answer although I still can't help feeling slightly agrieved we never had this problem in the Pageant. I have no worries leaving the Truma heater on electric all night but feel uncomfortable running it on gas whilst asleep.
We will be away again week after next so I will try out all the good ideas. Thanks.
Cheers
Alan
We were at Blackmore 4 weeks ago. The warden was just finishing off the wood chippings in the dog walk. Shame it isn't bigger.
We used the Bluebell Inn a few times , good food at reasonable prices. The best Chinese takeaway is the Wok and Roll.
I think your solution re the heating is the answer although I still can't help feeling slightly agrieved we never had this problem in the Pageant. I have no worries leaving the Truma heater on electric all night but feel uncomfortable running it on gas whilst asleep.
We will be away again week after next so I will try out all the good ideas. Thanks.
Cheers
Alan
Alan,
Couldn't agree more about the Bluebell and the Wok and Roll.
However I will never live down my last visit to the Wok and Roll. My wife wanted a King Prawn Chow Mein and i a Chicken Chow Mein.
However for some reason when i got to the Wok and Roll i also ordered two portions of boiled rice and a portion of bean sprouts!
On arriving back at the caravan my wife wanted to know if we were feeding the whole site. God only knows why i ordered the extra portions. As you will know the quality and quantity are excellent.Thank heavens the dog liked boiled rice and bean sprouts. I think i may have created a problem for myself as in future our dog will expect boiled rice and bean sprouts. She was licking her lips for a long time!
Hamer
Couldn't agree more about the Bluebell and the Wok and Roll.
However I will never live down my last visit to the Wok and Roll. My wife wanted a King Prawn Chow Mein and i a Chicken Chow Mein.
However for some reason when i got to the Wok and Roll i also ordered two portions of boiled rice and a portion of bean sprouts!
On arriving back at the caravan my wife wanted to know if we were feeding the whole site. God only knows why i ordered the extra portions. As you will know the quality and quantity are excellent.Thank heavens the dog liked boiled rice and bean sprouts. I think i may have created a problem for myself as in future our dog will expect boiled rice and bean sprouts. She was licking her lips for a long time!
Hamer
hamer, thanks for the positive comments on the frames.
when we go away next week we will also be running the heating on 24/7. we always run ours on electric i think, im sure we do but ill ask craig.
whats the difference?. i dont do technical.
great positive reports about blackmore.
i fancy trying that site and the chinese mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
thanks again hamer
jo-anne
when we go away next week we will also be running the heating on 24/7. we always run ours on electric i think, im sure we do but ill ask craig.
whats the difference?. i dont do technical.
great positive reports about blackmore.
i fancy trying that site and the chinese mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
thanks again hamer
jo-anne
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Alan,
Let me make it clear that I am not employed by Swift or Polyplastic, or obliged to them in any way. The views I express here are my own.
I personally believe that metal window frames are not the best choice for a a small living volume with a low thermal mass, and a limited heat input rate, and an intermittent and low occupancy rating with relatively high percentage of fixed ventilation.. The temperature regime has a tendency to be quite wild compared to a normal domestic house. These are conditions that will tend to exacerbate issues with condensation.
There are relatively few designed products that don't involve compromises of some sort. In the case of a caravan, to achieve a level of thermal mass that would help to stabilise the temperature and thus help control condensation, it would require a caravan of such weight that it would be impractically heavy. So the use of light weight insulation helps to reduce heat loss but equally it has no temperature stableising action. This means that the temperature in the caravan can have quite large extremes, and it can change quite rapidly when a door or a window is opened.
These are all contributing factors (amongst others) that can lead to condensation occurring.
Just to correct a couple of technical points that you make in your posting:
Para 2. Heat transfer does not go from cold to hot but always hot to cold. Energy always moves naturally from high energy state towards a lower state.
Para 3. The reason for providing a thermal break is fundamentally to reduce heat loss. This is to reduce energy requirements. It is a serendipitous but desirable effect if it also reduced the potential for condensation.
Unlike you, I have not had the opportunity to even see one of these windows, but I will bet they are manufactured from an aluminium extrusion, and probably anodised or coated.
Assuming I am correct about the form of the frame, the construction of the window frames will be closely controlled. The shape of the frame will be created on jigs or numerically controlled forming machines which will hold tolerances well in check. It will also be a feature of these jigs that
the raw extrusion will have to be of the correct cross section form for it to be engaged in the machine or jig before it can be bent to shape. Thus I find it very difficult to believe that the window frames have been manufactured incorrectly, i.e. the break has been bridged.
Equally I am sure that Swifts designers are aware of the need to maintain the integrity of the thermal break, however I have less confidence about some of their production techniques, and operatives who might not understand the need for the break and with little incentive to maintain quality (as they are on 'piece work') through ignorance they might be compromising the break when they fit the frames to the caravan. However it is unlikely that the entire thermal break would be compromised, most likely just a few points around the frame were fixings are used.. In all it is likely to be less than 10% of the frame that might be compromised.
Whilst it would be great if the cause your problem cold be pinpointed to a particular product where changing it resolves the issue, but I believe it is most likely to be the result of a wider range of factors.
I realise this is of little comfort to you but I feel it is important to forewarn you before you get you hopes too high..
Jo-anne,
The Wok and Roll is at Guarlford.
Left out of site, then first left(narrow lane), after about half mile.
Left at T. Junction and just keep going. You will pass the Bluebell on your left. Keep going into Guarlford. The Wok and Roll is on your left just before the roundabout.
Takes about 5 minutes.
Hamer
we went to dover in february and had to leave blinds and curtains open except for bedroom window and sleep with bedroom door close for privacy,had no condensation then,otherwise we had floods .We left heating on low all the time,o hell with the tree huggers
no help at all.It doesnt seem like progress to me incidentally the bedroom window made the quilt wet where it touched it was that bad.The ventilation made by the manufacturer is for four people there is only ever two of us so it should have been overkill on that side of things.Ours wa 'only'14k ish but am still peeved if it was this damp in a rented flat the council would not be happy about my living conditions
no help at all.It doesnt seem like progress to me incidentally the bedroom window made the quilt wet where it touched it was that bad.The ventilation made by the manufacturer is for four people there is only ever two of us so it should have been overkill on that side of things.Ours wa 'only'14k ish but am still peeved if it was this damp in a rented flat the council would not be happy about my living conditionsdave please tell us what make, model and year your van is please if you dont mind?.
do you usually leave the heating on 24/7?.
has putting the heating on not done anything for your condensation?.
jo-anne
do you usually leave the heating on 24/7?.
has putting the heating on not done anything for your condensation?.
jo-anne
Deli Dave,
You say you "had no condensation then, otherwise we had floods".
So i am wondering what caused the caravan to go from no condensation to floods.
Do you shower in the caravan?
When there is the possibility of steam in your caravan do you put the extractor on first and leave it on until steam has been extracted?
Do you leave the caravan door open allowing cold damp air into the caravan?
Is your heating on too low? If so condensation will occur.
We never allow our caravan to drop below 60 degress.
Have you set the heating so that it is even throughout the caravan? I have been in some caravans in winter where the centre of the caravan is quite warm and both ends much cooler.
I am trying to help you to solve your problem so you can be condensation free.
You say you "had no condensation then, otherwise we had floods".
So i am wondering what caused the caravan to go from no condensation to floods.
Do you shower in the caravan?
When there is the possibility of steam in your caravan do you put the extractor on first and leave it on until steam has been extracted?
Do you leave the caravan door open allowing cold damp air into the caravan?
Is your heating on too low? If so condensation will occur.
We never allow our caravan to drop below 60 degress.
Have you set the heating so that it is even throughout the caravan? I have been in some caravans in winter where the centre of the caravan is quite warm and both ends much cooler.
I am trying to help you to solve your problem so you can be condensation free.
hamer, do you run your heating on gas or elec?.
what number do you have the fire on?.
what number do you have the other switches on?
remember im not technical its craig who is, lol.
we dont shower in there so no probs.
do you open any windows in the morning or is it you get know condensation what so ever because you have the heating on 24/7?.
what van do you have again?.
sorry for all the questions but im going away next week and i want to try and sort this problem out, fingers crossed.
thanks
jo-anne
what number do you have the fire on?.
what number do you have the other switches on?
remember im not technical its craig who is, lol.
we dont shower in there so no probs.
do you open any windows in the morning or is it you get know condensation what so ever because you have the heating on 24/7?.
what van do you have again?.
sorry for all the questions but im going away next week and i want to try and sort this problem out, fingers crossed.
thanks
jo-anne
- Jun 20, 2005
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Hi Jo-anne
Cirencester is only 4 miles from me so a bit too close.
Blackmore is a lovely site and in the peak season both toilet blocks are open. You have now discovered my and Hamer's secret, The Wok and Roll. Terri's beef chow mein came in a massive round container, not only more quantity than usual but full of beef and excellent flavour too.
Just on the other side of Malvern, over the hills looking out towards Wales is a lovely tea room , The Kettle Sings. Well worth a visit.
So yes , Blackmore for me. It shouldn't take you more than an hour from your home.
Cheers
Alan
- Jun 20, 2005
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Hi Hamer / Jo-anne
It was below zero at Blackmore last time so we did leave the heating on overnight but not enough I suspect. I had the wall thermostat on 5, the elctric on 500 watts and the fan on auto. The car was very iced up in the morning so perhaps I should have had 1000 watts and 7 or 8 on the thermo..
All windows were closed too so adding to the respiratory condensation.
Anyone know what the weather forecast is for the Easter break?
Chers
Alan
It was below zero at Blackmore last time so we did leave the heating on overnight but not enough I suspect. I had the wall thermostat on 5, the elctric on 500 watts and the fan on auto. The car was very iced up in the morning so perhaps I should have had 1000 watts and 7 or 8 on the thermo..
All windows were closed too so adding to the respiratory condensation.
Anyone know what the weather forecast is for the Easter break?
Chers
Alan
Supposed to be grim up North so bulk up on the kitchen roll!
Just back from a week away in our new Conqueror. Yes the alloy windows got a bit wet, but blimey its a caravan. Balsa wood Airfix construction is part of the fun!
I think the alloy windows look super so hey ho.
Even expensive hotels can have dripping windows.
Roll on the summer guys.
Just back from a week away in our new Conqueror. Yes the alloy windows got a bit wet, but blimey its a caravan. Balsa wood Airfix construction is part of the fun!
I think the alloy windows look super so hey ho.
Even expensive hotels can have dripping windows.
Roll on the summer guys.
Jo-anne,
Our caravan is a 2007 Swift Conqueror 655.
The layout is L-shaped front, twin beds and end washroom.
We run our heating on electric, but we do not use the blown air.
At this time of year we have the main fire on 1kwt and set on between 6 and 7 depending on outside temp.
In the washroom we have a 500watt Dimplex coldwatch.This is not a fan heater. It is thermostatically controlled with numbers 1 to 5 and we have it set on 4.At this time of year we always leave the washroom door open. This gives more even heat throughout the caravan.
These are the settings 24/7.
My wife has an eye condition which is irritated by the blown air. Her eye Consultant told her not to use the blown air and it has worked.
Due to our heat settings, even in cold weather we only need duvets with a 4.5 tog rating.
Our friend who uses blown air,and also does not get condensation, has his fire on 2kwt at this time of year.His heat setting is 5 or 6.He has his fan on 3 or 4 and has the blown air sdjusted so that the front most outlet and the rear most outlet receive most of the blown air.This helps to keep an even heat throughout the caravan.His caravan is a 2007 Swift Challenger fixed bed.
We use low wattage kettles 800 watt.
The fridge and hot water are on elctric.
One problem which can arise is if the thermostat control for the fire is too close to the fire. I and friends always have a remote sensor fitted in a position which is not affected by direct heat from the fire.
We get no condensation whatsoever. We have the small kitchen window on the night catch.The caravan has 2 sunroofs,both have the flyscreens accross but we never put the night blinds accross, even at night.
The other Main Point is we always put the extractor fan on before starting cooking and leave it on for a couple of minutes after cooking.
The only time we have used the fire on gas was in winter at Chatsworth C.C.site. The power cut only lasted about 15 hours. I put the thermostat on 6 and used the blown air as our friend does. the outside temp was about -2c but no condensation. The caravan we had at Chatsworth was a 2004 Bailey Senator Wyoming, again no condensation.
The other point which i cannot stress enough is only have the caravan door open when entering or leaving the caravan.
We do not open any windows at this time of year.If for whatever reason the caravan becomes too warm we put the sunroofs on the night catch. However if the tep drops remember to close them again, or if there is a cold wind blowing.
Jo-anne hope this helps and solves your problem.
I always say to people,how many times have you been in someones kitchen when they are cooking and they have not switched their extractor fan on and their kitchen windows have misted up--just a thought.
Hamer
Our caravan is a 2007 Swift Conqueror 655.
The layout is L-shaped front, twin beds and end washroom.
We run our heating on electric, but we do not use the blown air.
At this time of year we have the main fire on 1kwt and set on between 6 and 7 depending on outside temp.
In the washroom we have a 500watt Dimplex coldwatch.This is not a fan heater. It is thermostatically controlled with numbers 1 to 5 and we have it set on 4.At this time of year we always leave the washroom door open. This gives more even heat throughout the caravan.
These are the settings 24/7.
My wife has an eye condition which is irritated by the blown air. Her eye Consultant told her not to use the blown air and it has worked.
Due to our heat settings, even in cold weather we only need duvets with a 4.5 tog rating.
Our friend who uses blown air,and also does not get condensation, has his fire on 2kwt at this time of year.His heat setting is 5 or 6.He has his fan on 3 or 4 and has the blown air sdjusted so that the front most outlet and the rear most outlet receive most of the blown air.This helps to keep an even heat throughout the caravan.His caravan is a 2007 Swift Challenger fixed bed.
We use low wattage kettles 800 watt.
The fridge and hot water are on elctric.
One problem which can arise is if the thermostat control for the fire is too close to the fire. I and friends always have a remote sensor fitted in a position which is not affected by direct heat from the fire.
We get no condensation whatsoever. We have the small kitchen window on the night catch.The caravan has 2 sunroofs,both have the flyscreens accross but we never put the night blinds accross, even at night.
The other Main Point is we always put the extractor fan on before starting cooking and leave it on for a couple of minutes after cooking.
The only time we have used the fire on gas was in winter at Chatsworth C.C.site. The power cut only lasted about 15 hours. I put the thermostat on 6 and used the blown air as our friend does. the outside temp was about -2c but no condensation. The caravan we had at Chatsworth was a 2004 Bailey Senator Wyoming, again no condensation.
The other point which i cannot stress enough is only have the caravan door open when entering or leaving the caravan.
We do not open any windows at this time of year.If for whatever reason the caravan becomes too warm we put the sunroofs on the night catch. However if the tep drops remember to close them again, or if there is a cold wind blowing.
Jo-anne hope this helps and solves your problem.
I always say to people,how many times have you been in someones kitchen when they are cooking and they have not switched their extractor fan on and their kitchen windows have misted up--just a thought.
Hamer
- Jun 20, 2005
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Hamer
Thanks for an excellent explanation. I will try this at Grin Low next week. The temoeratures there will be ideal for the experiment.
I'll let you know in a couple of weeks if it worked.
If it does then you may wish to claim the bounty from Swift, Bailey and ultimately Polyplastic for solving this irritation.
Well done mate.
Cheers
Alan
Thanks for an excellent explanation. I will try this at Grin Low next week. The temoeratures there will be ideal for the experiment.
I'll let you know in a couple of weeks if it worked.
If it does then you may wish to claim the bounty from Swift, Bailey and ultimately Polyplastic for solving this irritation.
Well done mate.
Cheers
Alan
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