You spotted a flaw in my plan,Val.
Ah well,back to square one - now where did I put that 12 bore...
Ah well,back to square one - now where did I put that 12 bore...
Valerie thinks her plan of "3 strikes and you're out" is harsh, I think she's being generous ;O) I'd make it two. Whichever was chosen it shouldn't be hard to implement on a central computer. Neither could the offenders claim they were being judged harshly because there could have been 3 sets of wardens come to the decision that they are anti-social.
Can I just say to those on the forum who have kids, don't take it personally. The vast majority of children are o.k. it is the few morons that spoil it for all, even your own children could be corrupted by these out of control sprogs.
Can I just say to those on the forum who have kids, don't take it personally. The vast majority of children are o.k. it is the few morons that spoil it for all, even your own children could be corrupted by these out of control sprogs.
Whoa, whoa, lets just all calm down - blimey, didn't realise you caravanners were such anarchists! I get more respectful comments on my motorbike forum...
My real name is Neil (no idea who bigmac is) and I wasn't trying to stir anything up - a forum, by definition, is a place for open discussion and to hear other opinions.
My point is that everyone goes on holiday for different reasons - you obviously all want a quite and peaceful time - fine. However, you have to consider what other people (not like you) want. I am not condoning letting kids run wild but I also don't believe in forcing them to sit quietly playing Scrabble just so the people in the van next door can watch TV in peace. Just like you say I should think of others around me, so you need too as well...
If moving is not an option, then if it is that bad, there seem to be lots of adults-only sites, no? That 'Alan' bloke should definitely go to those... ;-)
My real name is Neil (no idea who bigmac is) and I wasn't trying to stir anything up - a forum, by definition, is a place for open discussion and to hear other opinions.
My point is that everyone goes on holiday for different reasons - you obviously all want a quite and peaceful time - fine. However, you have to consider what other people (not like you) want. I am not condoning letting kids run wild but I also don't believe in forcing them to sit quietly playing Scrabble just so the people in the van next door can watch TV in peace. Just like you say I should think of others around me, so you need too as well...
If moving is not an option, then if it is that bad, there seem to be lots of adults-only sites, no? That 'Alan' bloke should definitely go to those... ;-)
I think your all missing the point here.
RULES ARE RULES NO BALL GAMES people do not spend 10k to 30k on a caravan for some children to damage it with balls.
As one of these parents said to me after I had a word with his son about his ball hiting the van. "You have insurance dont you"
yes but will you pay the axes on the premium. And once you claim up going next year premium.
These sites should put it in the rules if your kids damage other people goods thay PAY I bet thing would change then dont you.
Hit them in the pocket and watch things change.
RULES ARE RULES NO BALL GAMES people do not spend 10k to 30k on a caravan for some children to damage it with balls.
As one of these parents said to me after I had a word with his son about his ball hiting the van. "You have insurance dont you"
yes but will you pay the axes on the premium. And once you claim up going next year premium.
These sites should put it in the rules if your kids damage other people goods thay PAY I bet thing would change then dont you.
Hit them in the pocket and watch things change.
Neil,
Reading your posts it doesn't appear that you are totally devoid of all intelligence, my guess is that you are not reading the posts properly. Nobody is expecting your children to sit quietly playing scrabble so the people next door can watch TV in peace - we expect you to take them to the play area when they want to be noisy or play ball etc. - that way both parties get what they want, its called consideration and compromise. Its not always easy to get onto adults only sites as they seem to be booked up constantly - I say we need more of them!!!
Val.
Reading your posts it doesn't appear that you are totally devoid of all intelligence, my guess is that you are not reading the posts properly. Nobody is expecting your children to sit quietly playing scrabble so the people next door can watch TV in peace - we expect you to take them to the play area when they want to be noisy or play ball etc. - that way both parties get what they want, its called consideration and compromise. Its not always easy to get onto adults only sites as they seem to be booked up constantly - I say we need more of them!!!
Val.
Bearing in mind my previous comment about setting boundaries and challenging bad behaviour (which I stick by) I have to say Neil has a point - albeit, perhaps, not said in the right way.
Of course, children need a holiday and, of course, they need to be given opportunities to let off steam, play games, be loud. We all do - sometimes I need those opportunities too! Personally I wouldn't have a problem with children playing outside my caravan, especially on family sites, but I WOULD have a problem if that play started to place my property at risk (balls being kicked against my caravan), children started climbing over my property and/or the noise got too much. At that point I would go out and request things change.
If we choose to stay at a site that is open for all we have to accept that there will be some noise and interference. As long as it doesn't go too far, that's fine. Each person's threshold will be different and it is up to parents to respect that - even if it means they have to close up and take their children somewhere else to play. In the end, they chose to have children...
So, in summary, I wouldn't necessarily stop my daughter playing outside my caravan and close to others but I WOULD keep an eye on her and I WOULD stop her doing something that I believed would upset someone else. And I WOULD be prepared to respect the opinions of other people and adjust my behaviour accordingly.
Of course, children need a holiday and, of course, they need to be given opportunities to let off steam, play games, be loud. We all do - sometimes I need those opportunities too! Personally I wouldn't have a problem with children playing outside my caravan, especially on family sites, but I WOULD have a problem if that play started to place my property at risk (balls being kicked against my caravan), children started climbing over my property and/or the noise got too much. At that point I would go out and request things change.
If we choose to stay at a site that is open for all we have to accept that there will be some noise and interference. As long as it doesn't go too far, that's fine. Each person's threshold will be different and it is up to parents to respect that - even if it means they have to close up and take their children somewhere else to play. In the end, they chose to have children...
So, in summary, I wouldn't necessarily stop my daughter playing outside my caravan and close to others but I WOULD keep an eye on her and I WOULD stop her doing something that I believed would upset someone else. And I WOULD be prepared to respect the opinions of other people and adjust my behaviour accordingly.
Neil
This is that "Alan bloke" posting.
may I suggest you re read all the posts and you will soon see we have all had well behaved children who respected other peoples property. You seem devoid of that consideration and are clearly one of the minority architects who have no concern or aforethought for the rest of us. Sorry , I assumed you were an architect but perhaps I should have said Merchant Banker.
Do you have any idea just how much it costs to repair a dent in the side of a caravan caused by an out of control selfish brat??
Well when you have to pay it may change this bizarre attitude you appear to have.
PS Have you ever been on that tv programme "Neighbour from Hell"???
Cheers
"That bloke" Alan
This is that "Alan bloke" posting.
may I suggest you re read all the posts and you will soon see we have all had well behaved children who respected other peoples property. You seem devoid of that consideration and are clearly one of the minority architects who have no concern or aforethought for the rest of us. Sorry , I assumed you were an architect but perhaps I should have said Merchant Banker.
Do you have any idea just how much it costs to repair a dent in the side of a caravan caused by an out of control selfish brat??
Well when you have to pay it may change this bizarre attitude you appear to have.
PS Have you ever been on that tv programme "Neighbour from Hell"???
Cheers
"That bloke" Alan
Neil,
Just because people have higher values of what is right or wrong and like to look after their pride and joy, they should not be shunned off to an adult only site.
We work very hard and are proud to own a nice car and caravan and simply don't want them used as a goal posts, nor do we wish to use adult only sites as that would deprive us of caravanning with our 2 kids (9 & 5 years old) and all the enjoyment that that brings.
Imagine your excitement at getting away for your first trip with your family in your new shiny caravan and coming home with a dent in the side of it because someone couldn't be bothered with the "no ball games" rule.
How would that make you feel ?
Our kids love the fresh air, making new friends, the freedom and safety of the sites, but they do behave well and follow site rules.
We recently returned from a trip to Windermere C&CC site where we witnessed, at 2200hr a group of kids who's parents were not around, kicking a full weight football, over the roof of their caravan and letting it land amongst their neighbours vans.
Similarly, I have moved older kids away from my van when they were whacking a tennis ball at each other and I guarantee these are only a couple of many such examples.
Generally sites have a "no ball games" rule, for a very good reason.
A dent to a car or caravan is a very expensive repair and easily avoided by following a simple rule and using designated play areas.
If you cannot guarantee your kids will not accidentally kick a ball against someone elses caravan and follow a simple "no ball games" rule, then you might want to consider whether caravanning is really for you or at least consider taking out third party insurance for your neighbours to claim from.
Oh, and don't be too surprised when your comments get others backs up, they've all probably seen the damage done and with no recompense,
Ken.
Just because people have higher values of what is right or wrong and like to look after their pride and joy, they should not be shunned off to an adult only site.
We work very hard and are proud to own a nice car and caravan and simply don't want them used as a goal posts, nor do we wish to use adult only sites as that would deprive us of caravanning with our 2 kids (9 & 5 years old) and all the enjoyment that that brings.
Imagine your excitement at getting away for your first trip with your family in your new shiny caravan and coming home with a dent in the side of it because someone couldn't be bothered with the "no ball games" rule.
How would that make you feel ?
Our kids love the fresh air, making new friends, the freedom and safety of the sites, but they do behave well and follow site rules.
We recently returned from a trip to Windermere C&CC site where we witnessed, at 2200hr a group of kids who's parents were not around, kicking a full weight football, over the roof of their caravan and letting it land amongst their neighbours vans.
Similarly, I have moved older kids away from my van when they were whacking a tennis ball at each other and I guarantee these are only a couple of many such examples.
Generally sites have a "no ball games" rule, for a very good reason.
A dent to a car or caravan is a very expensive repair and easily avoided by following a simple rule and using designated play areas.
If you cannot guarantee your kids will not accidentally kick a ball against someone elses caravan and follow a simple "no ball games" rule, then you might want to consider whether caravanning is really for you or at least consider taking out third party insurance for your neighbours to claim from.
Oh, and don't be too surprised when your comments get others backs up, they've all probably seen the damage done and with no recompense,
Ken.
Neil,
I take it you have a motorbike if you are a member of a motorbike forum. Look at it this way, if you had your motorbike parked legitimately somewhere and as a result of my two teenagers walking past larking about and being boisterous, your bike was knocked to the ground and damaged - would that be acceptable to you?
Val.
I take it you have a motorbike if you are a member of a motorbike forum. Look at it this way, if you had your motorbike parked legitimately somewhere and as a result of my two teenagers walking past larking about and being boisterous, your bike was knocked to the ground and damaged - would that be acceptable to you?
Val.
Id first of all start by saying that in 10 years of touring - roughly 80% of which is within school holidays - neither my van or car has ever been damaged by kids playing. Come to think of it I cant ever remember having to ask other children to go and play with their football elsewhere. Maybe we have been very lucky or perhaps the problem is not really that bad?
Our kids are now 11 and 10 and have been brought up to respect other people and their property. Again in the same 10 years touring I havnt received any complaints about my kids from other caravanners.
I would hate my caravan to be used as a goal post and would be most unhappy of other kids decided this would be a good idea. Never happend yet but they would be moved on pretty quick if it did. My children play ball games in the designated area only and we try to keep them in view all of the time.
Similarly though the kids need to enjoy their holiday too and being kids Im sure they have unintentionally wandered across the odd pitch or perhaps shouted a little too loudly at times. If that was the case a simple converstion with them would sort it out - they are polite and respectful. If not a simple conversation with me would definately sort it out as we do not accept disrespectful behaviour from them.
Its just common sense really.
Question - our kids have a bat and ball game which provides hours of entertainment (for the parents too). The ball is a small soft plastic one which wouldnt damage a caravan if Roger Federer served it a top pace from 6 feet away. Is playing with this in the space in front of our caravan acceptable or not in your view?
Our kids are now 11 and 10 and have been brought up to respect other people and their property. Again in the same 10 years touring I havnt received any complaints about my kids from other caravanners.
I would hate my caravan to be used as a goal post and would be most unhappy of other kids decided this would be a good idea. Never happend yet but they would be moved on pretty quick if it did. My children play ball games in the designated area only and we try to keep them in view all of the time.
Similarly though the kids need to enjoy their holiday too and being kids Im sure they have unintentionally wandered across the odd pitch or perhaps shouted a little too loudly at times. If that was the case a simple converstion with them would sort it out - they are polite and respectful. If not a simple conversation with me would definately sort it out as we do not accept disrespectful behaviour from them.
Its just common sense really.
Question - our kids have a bat and ball game which provides hours of entertainment (for the parents too). The ball is a small soft plastic one which wouldnt damage a caravan if Roger Federer served it a top pace from 6 feet away. Is playing with this in the space in front of our caravan acceptable or not in your view?
My caravan has a ladder up the back and upon returning to the site after a day out, I was stopped at the gate by the warden to be told that my alarm kept going off.
When I said that this was unusual, his reply was "not when 4 kids are bouncing up and down on the roof"
When I asked why he hadn't done anything about it, he pointed out the family of burly drunkards and said "would you?"
When I said that this was unusual, his reply was "not when 4 kids are bouncing up and down on the roof"
When I asked why he hadn't done anything about it, he pointed out the family of burly drunkards and said "would you?"
First point Martin J ..... I would have no need to go and speak to your kids if they were "a little loud". That is kids. If you watch young kids, and we were the same at one time, even if stood next to each other they don't talk, they shout :O)
I wouldn't have any problem with you playing with a soft ball in front of your own caravan either. At one time I had no problems with swingball until informed of the damage a flying bat can do though.
Like you, I have rarely come against unruly kids but the fact of the matter is I have encountered them and you only need to encounter them once to get your van damaged.
I think we all know the kind of kids we are posting about, the ignorant little sprogs with the even more ignorant parents, but thankfully in caravanning they are few and far between.
I wouldn't have any problem with you playing with a soft ball in front of your own caravan either. At one time I had no problems with swingball until informed of the damage a flying bat can do though.
Like you, I have rarely come against unruly kids but the fact of the matter is I have encountered them and you only need to encounter them once to get your van damaged.
I think we all know the kind of kids we are posting about, the ignorant little sprogs with the even more ignorant parents, but thankfully in caravanning they are few and far between.
Maybe I should clarify my very initial remarks - the first entry in this thread included the line:
'Children were doing handstands on our pitch, running around everyones cars and screaming and shouting' and there was later mention of riding bikes on site 'too fast'.
Those, to me, are not bad behaviour, just enthusiasm. If my kids were doing that, I would tell them to calm down but no more than that. Likewise, I wouldn't complain if someone else's kids were doing the same - is that attitude acceptable?
(Kicking a football against a van is bad and you are all correct, that should be done in a designated area - bad example as my son is not yet interested in football, but anyway...)
'Children were doing handstands on our pitch, running around everyones cars and screaming and shouting' and there was later mention of riding bikes on site 'too fast'.
Those, to me, are not bad behaviour, just enthusiasm. If my kids were doing that, I would tell them to calm down but no more than that. Likewise, I wouldn't complain if someone else's kids were doing the same - is that attitude acceptable?
(Kicking a football against a van is bad and you are all correct, that should be done in a designated area - bad example as my son is not yet interested in football, but anyway...)
Absolutely Neil... I think that's fair. You keep an eye on your children and point out when they are getting a little bit carried away. It's give and take - as long as everyone respects each other's right to have a good, safe, relaxing, enjoyable (delete as appropriate!) time, and compromises are reached, there really shouldn't be a problem. I always try and see it from other people's point of view - including the childrens!
"I would not be able to guarantee that they wouldn't run across some else's pitch or accidentally kick a football against another van.
...and, to be honest, I wouldn't want them to be quiet or to not play ball games".
That was your statement that got everyones hackles up neil.
The answer to that is you can guarantee that your child wont kick a ball at another caravan by only giving him a ball on the designated play area ;O)
...and, to be honest, I wouldn't want them to be quiet or to not play ball games".
That was your statement that got everyones hackles up neil.
The answer to that is you can guarantee that your child wont kick a ball at another caravan by only giving him a ball on the designated play area ;O)
Yes, I sort of see that now - I was writing that from the view of my 5 year old who has a small plastic ball which he ocassionally kicks around. It dawned on me that if it is an 11 year old with a leather ball, the effect could be a tad more damaging...
I havent logged onto the site for a little while mainly because i have been staying at Royal Hospital for Sick Kids in Glasgow with my 3 yrs old. I am saddened that the old saying 'seen and not heard' is very much at the forefront of some caravanners minds - i am sure there will be replies to this thread claiming the opposite. If there are kids playing with a ball why not be brave and tell them to move away from your van or better still talk to the parents. I personally dont take a ball when caravanning but if my kids are playing with others and not causing any damage or trouble why should i tell them to be quiet. If people dont like sharing a site where there are families then use one of the many 'adult only' sites. I also think its time for the thread to be removed as some of you are getting personal. I wait with baited breath for the 4x4 thread to rear its ugly head too.
Yvonne
ps if anyone is interested my son was extremely ill and i thank God that he is back home.
Yvonne
ps if anyone is interested my son was extremely ill and i thank God that he is back home.
The children are not to blame here. I have three of my own so as a parent am therefore fairly qualified in understanding this situation.
My wife and I have now had two instances where children have invited themselves to play on or around our pitch. On both occations, the parents of these children were more than happy to allow them to wander off to amuse themselves while they sat around having a bit of "me time".
My message would be this. If you are blessed enough to have children, it is your responsibility to look after them. Do not expect others to entertain or supervise them.
I pay my pitch fees for my family, not for someone elses! This is not anti children, it's anti bad parenting!
Dave
My wife and I have now had two instances where children have invited themselves to play on or around our pitch. On both occations, the parents of these children were more than happy to allow them to wander off to amuse themselves while they sat around having a bit of "me time".
My message would be this. If you are blessed enough to have children, it is your responsibility to look after them. Do not expect others to entertain or supervise them.
I pay my pitch fees for my family, not for someone elses! This is not anti children, it's anti bad parenting!
Dave
Yvonne, I`m pleased your son is well enough to return home and trust he makes a full and speedy recovery.
However, if your offspring are causing inconvenience to others, who may also be feeling unwell, in need of rest, or perhaps recovering, why should they be forced to up sticks because you can`t be bothered to control your offspring or perhaps because your levels of what is acceptable behaviour differ from the family in the next caravan?
Perhaps if the "Adult only" sites changed their moniker to "children excluded" sites then we may get a truer of what they are attempting to achieve ( but the P.C brigade would go into full-scale whinging mode).
The growth in adult only sites should be seen as a negative move in our pastime (I`ve never used one but you never know what the future may bring) as it will only bring segregation into what should be a universal activity, and it will only reduce the choice and facilities available to families, which would be a shame for those who view it as a family outing, only to have it spoilt by a minority who site the van then kick the kids out to disrupt the pleasure of anyone who doesn`t want noisy ball playing strangers ruining their break.
If this view makes me anti-child then call me that.
Unfortunately, you shouldn`t blame the child when they are given the impression that selfish behaviour is O.K.
However, if your offspring are causing inconvenience to others, who may also be feeling unwell, in need of rest, or perhaps recovering, why should they be forced to up sticks because you can`t be bothered to control your offspring or perhaps because your levels of what is acceptable behaviour differ from the family in the next caravan?
Perhaps if the "Adult only" sites changed their moniker to "children excluded" sites then we may get a truer of what they are attempting to achieve ( but the P.C brigade would go into full-scale whinging mode).
The growth in adult only sites should be seen as a negative move in our pastime (I`ve never used one but you never know what the future may bring) as it will only bring segregation into what should be a universal activity, and it will only reduce the choice and facilities available to families, which would be a shame for those who view it as a family outing, only to have it spoilt by a minority who site the van then kick the kids out to disrupt the pleasure of anyone who doesn`t want noisy ball playing strangers ruining their break.
If this view makes me anti-child then call me that.
Unfortunately, you shouldn`t blame the child when they are given the impression that selfish behaviour is O.K.
Well said Dave, this is what the majority have been saying but as usual one or two seem to think it's a personal attack against them. A lot of the posts are from parents who have children themselves and can see that not all are responsible parents. These responsible parents have a right to be concerned because they wouldn't want their children being influenced by rowdy sprogs. Those of us who have no children with us have also been parents and are now grandparents so it's not a case of us being anti-children as a few would like others to think.
In threads like this I believe if the cap fits wear it.
In threads like this I believe if the cap fits wear it.
hi all
I agree with LB 100% with a few additions well behaved children are not the problem and yes it is a minority that cause the problems however the I have found that the percentage of the minority is growing may be it's the way they are brought up these days thats changing, we caravaned with 3 children all the time they were growing up and yes they played football and cricket as much as they liked "ON THE BEACH" but never on site.
whenever possible we use adult only sites but this is not allways posible because they are a bit thin on the ground and not all take dogs, the ones that are around are not allways where we want to be and the ones that are can be vastly over subscribed and hard to get in without booking (I wonder why)and can be very expensive to boot.
we dont go away during school hols or bank holiday weekends either but some how the sprogs seem to find us, guess we are just unlucky.
colin
I agree with LB 100% with a few additions well behaved children are not the problem and yes it is a minority that cause the problems however the I have found that the percentage of the minority is growing may be it's the way they are brought up these days thats changing, we caravaned with 3 children all the time they were growing up and yes they played football and cricket as much as they liked "ON THE BEACH" but never on site.
whenever possible we use adult only sites but this is not allways posible because they are a bit thin on the ground and not all take dogs, the ones that are around are not allways where we want to be and the ones that are can be vastly over subscribed and hard to get in without booking (I wonder why)and can be very expensive to boot.
we dont go away during school hols or bank holiday weekends either but some how the sprogs seem to find us, guess we are just unlucky.
colin
Well said again LB and Colin.
Yvonne I appreciate the torrid time you have had but let's hope he's well on the mend.
My kids , like Colin's enjoyed all the screaming, shouting , and playing ball games either on the field or on the beach. Once on site their games were part of their natural development ie helping with the food prep, laying the table , fetching water, groceries from the site shop etc. This was not child labour but a sound introduction , with lots of fun, to enjoying life camping and subsequently caravanning. They know how to tie various knots and how to tension guy ropes etc. They know all about plants and wildlife. They appreciate the surrounding scenery and as a natural progression ae considerate of other peoples property and privacy.
I assure you it was not difficult or boring or dictatorial but lots of fun. I know they will treat their children the same.
Looking back on my own child hood , we were shown how to light a fire without matches, which kindling to collect , have a brew with a matchstick in the water as well as tea. All those very interesting nature things that do come in handy .
We're off to Berwick upon Tweed, Durham and the North Yorkshire Moors sunday for 4 weeks so I guess this post will be finished by the time I get back.
Cheers
Alan
Yvonne I appreciate the torrid time you have had but let's hope he's well on the mend.
My kids , like Colin's enjoyed all the screaming, shouting , and playing ball games either on the field or on the beach. Once on site their games were part of their natural development ie helping with the food prep, laying the table , fetching water, groceries from the site shop etc. This was not child labour but a sound introduction , with lots of fun, to enjoying life camping and subsequently caravanning. They know how to tie various knots and how to tension guy ropes etc. They know all about plants and wildlife. They appreciate the surrounding scenery and as a natural progression ae considerate of other peoples property and privacy.
I assure you it was not difficult or boring or dictatorial but lots of fun. I know they will treat their children the same.
Looking back on my own child hood , we were shown how to light a fire without matches, which kindling to collect , have a brew with a matchstick in the water as well as tea. All those very interesting nature things that do come in handy .
We're off to Berwick upon Tweed, Durham and the North Yorkshire Moors sunday for 4 weeks so I guess this post will be finished by the time I get back.
Cheers
Alan
Alan, I would also like to add to your " helping with the food prep, laying the table , fetching water, groceries from the site shop etc2.
It also teaches the kids added responsibities. My daughter/son-in-law are in a cottage at the moment overlooking St. Michaels Mount with the four grandchildren and they are given spending money but they have to earn it by helping out with the chores.
Have a good one on your 4 week jaunt, we did Berwick and Bolton Abbey a couple of years ago.
My Passat has been getting sluggish of late, especially on hills so Her Ladyship didn't want to go anywhere hilly this year so we booked Suffolk/Norfolk in 2 weeks time. I mentioned the car to a mate and he had it put on one of those computer thingys they use these days. They fitted an Air Mass Meter Box!!!! and it cost
It also teaches the kids added responsibities. My daughter/son-in-law are in a cottage at the moment overlooking St. Michaels Mount with the four grandchildren and they are given spending money but they have to earn it by helping out with the chores.
Have a good one on your 4 week jaunt, we did Berwick and Bolton Abbey a couple of years ago.
My Passat has been getting sluggish of late, especially on hills so Her Ladyship didn't want to go anywhere hilly this year so we booked Suffolk/Norfolk in 2 weeks time. I mentioned the car to a mate and he had it put on one of those computer thingys they use these days. They fitted an Air Mass Meter Box!!!! and it cost
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