"Hey gio, where are ya, you've gone quiet?
I bet the buggers gone of to London and is right now in the reading rooms of the House of Parliament researching Hansard. All this to get some facts and figures just to prove me wrong :O"(
I am here, reading the threads with a great deal of interest.
Lots of pionts i agree with,and you would be surprised with which points they are.
I cannot see why i need to do any research,its not a case of proving who is right or wrong,its about opinions, but if it was about anything else then LB, you have not answered any of my questions, whilst i have answered a few of yours.
So maybe someone else needs to head down to london to do some more research. lol.
I bet the buggers gone of to London and is right now in the reading rooms of the House of Parliament researching Hansard. All this to get some facts and figures just to prove me wrong :O"(
I am here, reading the threads with a great deal of interest.
Lots of pionts i agree with,and you would be surprised with which points they are.
I cannot see why i need to do any research,its not a case of proving who is right or wrong,its about opinions, but if it was about anything else then LB, you have not answered any of my questions, whilst i have answered a few of yours.
So maybe someone else needs to head down to london to do some more research. lol.
Whoaaaaaaaa gio me old matey, I suggest you scroll back to the top and see who asked the questions ;O)
Yes, and I'm still waiting for the answers :O)
Have yourself and Lutz ever thought of going into politics because politicians do exactly the same, answer a question with a question. I will repost them for your perusal because *cough* you obviously missed them first time around ... hehheh!
#1....Tell me a reason, a sensible one I mean, that it's ok to fill up the country with unlimited migration.
I don't want no PC crap, just a sound reasoning where it's ok to double or treble the population of these small islands. Forget with what race/creed or religion.
#2.... The British have emigrated all over the globe, they aren't happy where they are now and want to come back. Theres 60 million of them. What do you do?
Build 60 large cities to accommodate them?
Cover what greenery we have left with concrete and bricks?
Breathe even more polluted air?
Say goodbye to the lifestyle you have now because as I said in another thread, you can shove your caravans up your jacksies because there will be nowhere left to go.
#3....Why do they (French, Spanish, Italians)allow the immigrants to pass through their countries when they are seeking asylum?
#4.... a new question. Why are the French so concerned about us using scanners at French ports to catch the stowaways which had an 88% success rate? Do you honestly believe it has anything to do with the illegals "human rights" when they are used in Italy and Greece with no problem?
To answer your question of who is "they" = illegal immigrants :O)
I await all sensible answers but I'm not holding out much hope :O(
Yes, and I'm still waiting for the answers :O)
Have yourself and Lutz ever thought of going into politics because politicians do exactly the same, answer a question with a question. I will repost them for your perusal because *cough* you obviously missed them first time around ... hehheh!
#1....Tell me a reason, a sensible one I mean, that it's ok to fill up the country with unlimited migration.
I don't want no PC crap, just a sound reasoning where it's ok to double or treble the population of these small islands. Forget with what race/creed or religion.
#2.... The British have emigrated all over the globe, they aren't happy where they are now and want to come back. Theres 60 million of them. What do you do?
Build 60 large cities to accommodate them?
Cover what greenery we have left with concrete and bricks?
Breathe even more polluted air?
Say goodbye to the lifestyle you have now because as I said in another thread, you can shove your caravans up your jacksies because there will be nowhere left to go.
#3....Why do they (French, Spanish, Italians)allow the immigrants to pass through their countries when they are seeking asylum?
#4.... a new question. Why are the French so concerned about us using scanners at French ports to catch the stowaways which had an 88% success rate? Do you honestly believe it has anything to do with the illegals "human rights" when they are used in Italy and Greece with no problem?
To answer your question of who is "they" = illegal immigrants :O)
I await all sensible answers but I'm not holding out much hope :O(
LB. no.1, I answered.
no.2. Didn't need answering as its a silly question,where do you get 60 million britains abroad from, as whoever you would try to claim were british,fall at the first hurdle by your own assertations of wehat "truely british is"!
no.3, again load of rubbish, how many morrocans, libians albanians ect actually come here!
Italy for one,has polish immigrants way before others came here,slavaks, romanians,albanians, ect,ect,ect.
Yiou seem to believe anything the papers tell you,all major westerns countries have this issue! Its not a british thing!
That is arrogance,or the fact that news stories are not ALL written in English....
Which is why i asked and [you never replied],as to who do you mean? when you say immigrants? is it those that the empire stole from?or just any person not born on these shores,which would then include those hypothetical 60 million people sorry brits as
they clearly must have kept it in the family to still be 100% british!
And no.4 i answered too.
So please check again, you need to look for those post that have giovanni written in blue above the replies......
And maybe you can now answer my questions, LB
no.2. Didn't need answering as its a silly question,where do you get 60 million britains abroad from, as whoever you would try to claim were british,fall at the first hurdle by your own assertations of wehat "truely british is"!
no.3, again load of rubbish, how many morrocans, libians albanians ect actually come here!
Italy for one,has polish immigrants way before others came here,slavaks, romanians,albanians, ect,ect,ect.
Yiou seem to believe anything the papers tell you,all major westerns countries have this issue! Its not a british thing!
That is arrogance,or the fact that news stories are not ALL written in English....
Which is why i asked and [you never replied],as to who do you mean? when you say immigrants? is it those that the empire stole from?or just any person not born on these shores,which would then include those hypothetical 60 million people sorry brits as
they clearly must have kept it in the family to still be 100% british!
And no.4 i answered too.
So please check again, you need to look for those post that have giovanni written in blue above the replies......
And maybe you can now answer my questions, LB
"Have yourself and Lutz ever thought of going into politics because politicians do exactly the same, answer a question
with a question!
LB. Having rechecked the thread, i see you know what you are talking about concerning politics.
But alas,just like a politician you either ignore the question and change direction.Or you do what you claim i do!
with a question!
LB. Having rechecked the thread, i see you know what you are talking about concerning politics.
But alas,just like a politician you either ignore the question and change direction.Or you do what you claim i do!
Seems like some help is needed.
no.2. - Well who cares, 20 04 60 million, it's still one hell of lot.
no.3, - Too Many
"Italy for one,has polish immigrants way before others came here,slavaks, romanians,albanians, ect,ect,ect"
Well as there supposed to be such a benefit to a country we can ship the italians a few more from our stock ecpecially the etc etc etc's
no.2. - Well who cares, 20 04 60 million, it's still one hell of lot.
no.3, - Too Many
"Italy for one,has polish immigrants way before others came here,slavaks, romanians,albanians, ect,ect,ect"
Well as there supposed to be such a benefit to a country we can ship the italians a few more from our stock ecpecially the etc etc etc's
Just for the record gio I said 60 million Brits because if I had mentioned 60 million of any other nationality your PC mind would have accused me of being xenophobic/racist.
That is how we, who care for our country, have to speak these days, it's like treading on egg shells because we will be accused of all kind of isms or ists :O)
We have a population of about 68 million gio, just lets put our own house in order first and look after our people before admitting 500 million under priveliged, starving Africans.
That is how we, who care for our country, have to speak these days, it's like treading on egg shells because we will be accused of all kind of isms or ists :O)
We have a population of about 68 million gio, just lets put our own house in order first and look after our people before admitting 500 million under priveliged, starving Africans.
OK, so now it's my turn:
Question 1: I never said it was OK to fill up any country with unlimited migration. However, the population of the UK has only increased about 20% since the 1950's so any talk about doubling or trebling it is way off the mark.
Question 2: Like Giovanni I don't know where the 60 million that apparently emigrated from Brtain come from. After the Second World War, before the start of immigration in any numbers worth mentioning, there were only just over 50 million people in the UK. If 60 million emigrated, that would have left the country absolutely empty.
Question 3: I have tried to explain several times that it's not the responsiblility of the French, Spanish, or anyone else in the EU, to prevent anyone from passing through their respective country. Once someone is in the EU, there is complete freedom of movement (at least for the signatories of the Schengen agreement). The problem needs to be addressed at the root cause, i.e. at the edges of the EU.
Question 4: Whether scanners or any other video surveillance equipment are employed is something that each country can decide for itself. They can allow or prohibit such equipment to be used within their borders as they see fit. There is no EU agreement to cover such practice. Maybe you can't understand why the French are against it (if they are) but then a lot of Continentals can't understand why a sizeable number of people in the UK are against having to carry ID cards. It's a matter of different perspective, depending on historical developments. Like there was a general outcry against the use of video surveillance cameras in Germany a few years back. Although the opposition is diminishing, their use is still very restrictive.
Question 1: I never said it was OK to fill up any country with unlimited migration. However, the population of the UK has only increased about 20% since the 1950's so any talk about doubling or trebling it is way off the mark.
Question 2: Like Giovanni I don't know where the 60 million that apparently emigrated from Brtain come from. After the Second World War, before the start of immigration in any numbers worth mentioning, there were only just over 50 million people in the UK. If 60 million emigrated, that would have left the country absolutely empty.
Question 3: I have tried to explain several times that it's not the responsiblility of the French, Spanish, or anyone else in the EU, to prevent anyone from passing through their respective country. Once someone is in the EU, there is complete freedom of movement (at least for the signatories of the Schengen agreement). The problem needs to be addressed at the root cause, i.e. at the edges of the EU.
Question 4: Whether scanners or any other video surveillance equipment are employed is something that each country can decide for itself. They can allow or prohibit such equipment to be used within their borders as they see fit. There is no EU agreement to cover such practice. Maybe you can't understand why the French are against it (if they are) but then a lot of Continentals can't understand why a sizeable number of people in the UK are against having to carry ID cards. It's a matter of different perspective, depending on historical developments. Like there was a general outcry against the use of video surveillance cameras in Germany a few years back. Although the opposition is diminishing, their use is still very restrictive.
Well as there supposed to be such a benefit to a country we can ship the italians a few more from our stock ecpecially the etc etc etc's
And who on earth is going to replace them in the workforce?
OAPs, schoolchildren, do we all take on a second job?
Problem is you and others taint all immigrants with the same brush!
Thank god that europeans/world does not think all brits have this ignorant attitude.
Otherwise we would have to replace the "great" bit with "thick"
And that just would not do.
Great Britain is great,its not perfect but then nowhere is.
And who on earth is going to replace them in the workforce?
OAPs, schoolchildren, do we all take on a second job?
Problem is you and others taint all immigrants with the same brush!
Thank god that europeans/world does not think all brits have this ignorant attitude.
Otherwise we would have to replace the "great" bit with "thick"
And that just would not do.
Great Britain is great,its not perfect but then nowhere is.
I was recently stopped by the French police on a routine spot check I assume. They stopped a few motorists.
They wanted to see my passport and car paperwork that I'd left in the caravan, after a lot of stern looks they let me go after I explained as to where we were camping and they had seen my photo license.
But according to Lutz the French and others have no duty to check who travels through there country.
Well holy moley I'll let them know next time
They wanted to see my passport and car paperwork that I'd left in the caravan, after a lot of stern looks they let me go after I explained as to where we were camping and they had seen my photo license.
But according to Lutz the French and others have no duty to check who travels through there country.
Well holy moley I'll let them know next time
I think you're confusing a spot check on motorists with check on freedom of movement, Jason. They probably weren't interested in how you got into France and the intent of your travels, but only whether you had a valid licence and insurance, etc.
Lutz, once again I'm having to ask you to read the threads properly.
Regarding #2 please look at the post immediately before yours to see why I mentioned 60 million Brits.
#3 it's the responsibility of ALL countries if an illegal immigrant lands on their shore seeking asylum. EU rules don't state that the host country can pass that person to another country to absolve itself of the problem. Sorry Lutz, that crap doesn't wash with me mate :O)
#4 as stated, the French dont want us to use scanners because the 88% illegals that are caught mean that they are then a French problem, end of story.
The reason most people in the UK don't want I.D. cards is because of the governments appalling record on data protection. I am personally for I.D. cards although it will be another way this government can rip us of regarding the price of them.
I'm not posting in this thread anymore because obviously you have selective reading :O) and I'm wasting my time and precious monitor ink.
Regarding #2 please look at the post immediately before yours to see why I mentioned 60 million Brits.
#3 it's the responsibility of ALL countries if an illegal immigrant lands on their shore seeking asylum. EU rules don't state that the host country can pass that person to another country to absolve itself of the problem. Sorry Lutz, that crap doesn't wash with me mate :O)
#4 as stated, the French dont want us to use scanners because the 88% illegals that are caught mean that they are then a French problem, end of story.
The reason most people in the UK don't want I.D. cards is because of the governments appalling record on data protection. I am personally for I.D. cards although it will be another way this government can rip us of regarding the price of them.
I'm not posting in this thread anymore because obviously you have selective reading :O) and I'm wasting my time and precious monitor ink.
With your up yourself ideals Gio you failed to notice that I sad a "FEW", if you care to look at the number of jobs that have been on offer over the past 10 years and look at the numbers that have come in you would be the best accountant in the world if you could make the fihgures balance to say they all have jobs.
You also fail to note that we have many indigenous unemployed people an that the government plans to put many who are on dissability benefits back into the work force. Seeing we have unemployed Brits of all racial backgrounds looking for jobs and all the others of all kinds of backgrounds about to be ousted from the benefits scheme. We have a glut of Immigrants working and not working and need no more at present.
You also fail to note that we have many indigenous unemployed people an that the government plans to put many who are on dissability benefits back into the work force. Seeing we have unemployed Brits of all racial backgrounds looking for jobs and all the others of all kinds of backgrounds about to be ousted from the benefits scheme. We have a glut of Immigrants working and not working and need no more at present.
Ah right Lutz, I see where I was going wrong. They stop me and ask for ID, both my kids have been asked at various times whilst holiday with French, German and Dutch friends in France to provide ID cards that of course they do not carry.
But illegals parade around Calais and hide in shadows at night with no ID or passports and the French police can't see them as well as I can and they have no duty to check on these people yet they check on their own and tourists!
Holy Moley! again Lutz
But illegals parade around Calais and hide in shadows at night with no ID or passports and the French police can't see them as well as I can and they have no duty to check on these people yet they check on their own and tourists!
Holy Moley! again Lutz
Whether the 60 million are Brits or whatever, is of no consequence. 60 million people is 60 million. How can 60 million emigrate from a country which only has a population of 50 million, whether they are Brits or not.
The other argument about not allowing illegal immigrants to pass on to another country ONLY applies to the country in the EU where the immigrants first arrived. For example, if they crossed over from Africa to the Canary Islands (one of the favourite routes), thence to the Spanish mainland and later on into France and then the UK, then this is entirely a Spanish problem, not a French one. Only if their first port of call in the EU was France is it a French problem.
The other argument about not allowing illegal immigrants to pass on to another country ONLY applies to the country in the EU where the immigrants first arrived. For example, if they crossed over from Africa to the Canary Islands (one of the favourite routes), thence to the Spanish mainland and later on into France and then the UK, then this is entirely a Spanish problem, not a French one. Only if their first port of call in the EU was France is it a French problem.
Perhaps if the illegal immigrants were driving cars with UK number plates, there'd be a better chance of catching them. How about leaving a few such cars, unlocked and with the keys in the ignition, at the French/Spanish border in the hope that the illegal immigrants will use them to travel on to the UK?
So what you are saying is that once these illegals are over a
border they can do what they want Lutz!
So if we send all our unwanted ones to Germany they can wander around the country willy nilly and that's fine!
border they can do what they want Lutz!
So if we send all our unwanted ones to Germany they can wander around the country willy nilly and that's fine!
I'm saying that you'd have the right to send them back to the country where they first entered the EU, that's all. The snag is that as they aren't carrying any identification and they won't admit where they came from (the people smugglers make sure the illegals keep their mouth shut), it's rather difficult to prove where their first port of call was. They know that and use it to their advantage.
More PC baloney. Langauge after a short time tells you soon enough where they come from. For most that end up here that is France if you shouldn't be able to decide on country of origin and we should be dumping them back on Calais dock.
Shoot to kill at borders will soon put them off, I wouldn't expect any favours if I entered a country with no permission or papers. I just would not go!
Shoot to kill at borders will soon put them off, I wouldn't expect any favours if I entered a country with no permission or papers. I just would not go!
Lutz quote "For example, if they crossed over from Africa to the Canary Islands (one of the favourite routes), thence to the Spanish mainland and later on into France and then the UK, then this is entirely a Spanish problem, not a French one. Only if their first port of call in the EU was France is it a French problem".
Thank you Lutz, I can see I'm getting somewhere. So by saying that, because they don't land on our shores, they are NOT our problem. That is what I've been saying all along but we still have the problem in stopping them reaching here because the French/Spanish do nothing in sending them back, preferring to look the other way so they can reach soft touch Britain.
I'm still getting nowhere over the 60 million Brits though sadly.
Again, I'm saying they are Brits because if I say they are any other nationality you will accuse me of being racist/xenophobic as I've already stated above which you seem to have missed again in your selective reading :O)
To please you Lutz, please replace 60 million Brits with 60 million Africans :O) comprehende now?
Jeeezzzzz this is hard work :O)
Thank you Lutz, I can see I'm getting somewhere. So by saying that, because they don't land on our shores, they are NOT our problem. That is what I've been saying all along but we still have the problem in stopping them reaching here because the French/Spanish do nothing in sending them back, preferring to look the other way so they can reach soft touch Britain.
I'm still getting nowhere over the 60 million Brits though sadly.
Again, I'm saying they are Brits because if I say they are any other nationality you will accuse me of being racist/xenophobic as I've already stated above which you seem to have missed again in your selective reading :O)
To please you Lutz, please replace 60 million Brits with 60 million Africans :O) comprehende now?
Jeeezzzzz this is hard work :O)
Another example ...
Britains jails are full, 11,000 of them foreign criminals who shouldn't be here but have committed crimes. They are now going to be released 9 months before their time is up.
Recently they released another 16,000 prisoners before they had served their sentences, among them murderers and rapists who should have been deported but are now out loose.
This week five illegal Sudanese were convicted of raping 13 year old girls, they will be sentenced next week and kept in prison at our expense, that's if they can find room. They ran up a
Britains jails are full, 11,000 of them foreign criminals who shouldn't be here but have committed crimes. They are now going to be released 9 months before their time is up.
Recently they released another 16,000 prisoners before they had served their sentences, among them murderers and rapists who should have been deported but are now out loose.
This week five illegal Sudanese were convicted of raping 13 year old girls, they will be sentenced next week and kept in prison at our expense, that's if they can find room. They ran up a
Regarding the issue about who's problem illegal immigrants is, I think we're beginning to understand one another, Lord B. We just probably wouldn't agree on the solution. My idea is to get to grips with the root cause rather than introduce any draconian measures after the horse has bolted.
Jason says, "Langauge after a short time tells you soon enough where they come from." If they speak French, for example, they could be from any number of countries in north Africa. If they speak English they could be from quite a few further south, so which country do you send them back to? They are intelligent enough not to speak in their local tongue as that could give them away. Besides, language is not proof of origin. I write to you in English but I'm not from the UK.
But on the other subject of the 60 million, you've got me completely confused now, Lord B. Your initial statement was, quote, "The British have emigrated all over the globe, they aren't happy where they are now and want to come back. Theres 60 million of them."
Now you are saying that they are of other nationalities, but that's beside the point. There have never been 60 million people emigrating from Britain and wanting to come back, regardless of of which nationality or where they are now. Can you please explain so that I can understand?
Jason says, "Langauge after a short time tells you soon enough where they come from." If they speak French, for example, they could be from any number of countries in north Africa. If they speak English they could be from quite a few further south, so which country do you send them back to? They are intelligent enough not to speak in their local tongue as that could give them away. Besides, language is not proof of origin. I write to you in English but I'm not from the UK.
But on the other subject of the 60 million, you've got me completely confused now, Lord B. Your initial statement was, quote, "The British have emigrated all over the globe, they aren't happy where they are now and want to come back. Theres 60 million of them."
Now you are saying that they are of other nationalities, but that's beside the point. There have never been 60 million people emigrating from Britain and wanting to come back, regardless of of which nationality or where they are now. Can you please explain so that I can understand?
Forget they are Brits or any particular race, just say 60 million people. If you don't follow now I give up Lutz unless someone can explain it to you in a better way. You just seem to want to play on the word Brits whilst I'm using the word Brits in preference to saying Africans because theres a few PC types in this forum who are just waiting to cry "xenophobia" or "racism".
I'm afraid you've still lost me. OK, let me replace the word Brits with the word Africans and it still doesn't make sense:
The Brits Africans have emigrated all over the globe (let's say to the UK). They aren't happy where they are now (in Britain) and want to come back (to Africa). ?????
That is what you have written but I am slowly under the impression that is not what you meant.
The Brits Africans have emigrated all over the globe (let's say to the UK). They aren't happy where they are now (in Britain) and want to come back (to Africa). ?????
That is what you have written but I am slowly under the impression that is not what you meant.
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