Any way around the 180 day rule in France?

[Mobie15]

My husband and I will be retiring next year and would like to spend all year travelling around France and visiting friends and generally having a very long holiday. We have a couple of Jack Russell Terriers coming along for the ride. (We travel a lot abroad with the dogs for short breaks so are fully conversant with pet passport scheme.)
At least that was the plan until I discovered that our car cannot stay in France longer than 180 days and even worse the dogs will need registering as French citizens after only 90 days.
Does this mean we will have to go to the horrific expense of travelling back to this country every 90 days just to go back again a week later?
Has anyone else done this and how do we get over it OR what do I have to do to enable us to fulfill our dream and stay in France, without a permanent address (UK passport/citizenship, permanent home, pension, money, etc. etc all in UK) for over six months at a time, or in the case of the dogs, 3 months?
We cannot be the first to want to do this, how have other retired people got around it. It is very tempting just to book a 10 month return crossing as proof that we will be returning to the uk and hope nobody notices, has anyone tried that one?
What would be the repercussions I wonder - has anyone been caught out.?
All help and advice gratefully recieved. Many many thanks

 

[DavidKlyne]

SAGA car insurance cover up to 365 days so might be worth an exploration to see if they really mean it? You might also want to look at medical and breakdown insurance as they might not cover you for tht length of time. Did you also realise that when you return to the UK you might have to reregister with your doctor. Not sure if these rules are enforced but people under 65 can only be out of the country for 3 months before reregistering and those over 65 6 months. Your doctor might not be particularly worried about this but it might be worth investigating. It might be worth contacting the couple who wrote this blog as they were away for a year, although they did return at Christmas. http://www.travelpod.com/members/oldagetraveller Other things you need to think about is your house in the UK if its left empty not long periods. I am sure there must be ways round what you are asking as people do spend long periods touring. We tend only to go away a couple of months at a time.
David

 

[RayS]

I wonder if the clue is 'in France'. If this is literally the case, then go into Spain / Germany / Luxembourg / Belgium for a week or two and make sure your visit is well documented -i.e. that you can prove you were not in France for the period.
I have not looked into the rules in detail, and this idea will collapse as it does for visitis to USA where it says 'maximum 6 months and no return within 6 months' but it's well worth a look.

David, can you point us to the rules about re-registration with doctors not being necessary for 6 months absence as my local practice is trying to give me a hard time about any absence of over 3 months.

 

[DavidKlyne]

Ray
I thought it was the last Government that introduced these rules by from the first link it seems to be the John Major Governement.
http://www.retirement-matters.co.uk/gparchive/livingabroad.ht
http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsandcharges/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_074386
Also here:- http://www.avert.org/freenhs.htmFree NHS treatment at hospitals
Even if you’re entitled to free GP treatment in the UK, medical treatment from hospitals will not necessarily be free, unless your condition is considered to be an emergency. You can receive NHS hospital treatment for free if:

• You’ve been living legally in the UK for at least 12 months (temporary absences of up to 3 months are ignored).
• You’re a UK state pensioner that spends up to 6 months a year living in another European Economic Area (EEA) country, but are not a resident of that country.

Unfortunately this does not give any info on re-registering with doctors. I suppose you could print out final link and show your surgery and ask if you can get free hospital treatment why can't you remain a patient at that surgery?

David

 

[RayS]

Thanks David, I'll check out tese links and take it from there.

 

[NickinFrance]

At least that was the plan until I discovered that our car cannot stay in France longer than 180 days

I think it's 6 months in any 12 but providing you are legal in the UK, I wouldn't worry, it doesn't seem to bother many around here who run UK registered vehicles with no tax, MoT & therefore insurance for years.

and even worse the dogs will need registering as French citizens after only 90 days.

There is no such thing as a dog register (apart from dangerous breed which you can't bring in anyway)

 

[Willi-Wonti]

There was a program on tv this week called emergency bikers.
One cop pulled a car over as it was not showing tax, MOT or insurance on the computer.
The driver claimed that he was living in France & was only in this country for 2 days. He then showed a French insurance document. He was told that as his car had a British registration plate, that the French insurance was not valid in this country.
The car was seized & would not be released back to him until he could show a British insurance cert, paid the fine & storage / collection fee.
So if you are going to be out of the country for a long time make sure that your vehicle is still legal on your return

 

[NickinFrance]

I didn't see the program but that doesn't sound right.
French insurance is perfectly legal in the UK providing the MoT & Road fund license are valid but you can't use it to obtain a Road fund license in the UK.
I don't know what happens to a car seized with no Tax or MoT, you need a MoT to get the tax & need the tax to be able to drive to the nearest MoT station.
As I said, there are a LOT of ex-pats driving UK registered vehicles in France with no Tax or MoT & very often no insurance, the law is quite simple, if you become resident in an EU country you must register the vehicle in that county within one month or if you spend more than 6 months in an EU country you must register the vehicle in that country.
Also a vehicle must be FULLY legal in it's country of registration to be legally driven in another country.

 

[Lutz]

I think it's more a case of road tax evasion than anything to do with insurance. If you drive a UK registered vehicle in the UK it must be taxed in the UK (unless specifically exempt)

 

[Lutz]

..... if you spend more than 6 months in an EU country you must register the vehicle in that country.
Also a vehicle must be FULLY legal in it's country of registration to be legally driven in another country.

If you are unable to prove residency in an EU country, such as when touring, it will be difficult, if not impossible to register the vehicle in that country.

 

[NickinFrance]

I think you're correct it was as much to do with road tax as anything else but to clarify 'if you drive a UK registered vehicle ANYWHERE it must be taxed in the UK'.

 

[NickinFrance]

If you are unable to prove residency in an EU country, such as when touring, it will be difficult, if not impossible to register the vehicle in that country.

I agree, it's one of those laws that's impossible to enforce at the roadside, the problem is likely to occur if you have a major insurance claim.
I don't know what documents you have to carry in Germany but if I were stopped in the UK or France I couldn't prove I was resident in France, equally before I became resident here I couldn't prove I was a UK resident either.

 

[Lutz]

As a motorist in Germany, you only need to carry Part 1 of the vehicle registration document and some means of proving your identity. You do not need to carry any insurance document (although it does help to know who you are insured with) because insurance coverage will have been checked at the time the vehicle was registered. If coverage has ceased for any reason, the insurance company will notify the appropriate vehicle tax office and then the powers-that-be will be knocking at your door in next-to-no-time, or if they find your car, will remove the tax disc, making it immediately identifiable as no tax/no insurance. If the vehicle is standing on the public highway, it will be impounded if no action is taken within a set number of days.
You can't register a car (except when applying for temporary export plates) without proving that you yourself have a registered address in Germany. The local council offices will issue you with the necessary document. You then have to take this document, the insurance cover note and the registration book to the vehicle licensing office to be able to register the car (or caravan).
Vehicle tax evasion is not really an issue because one has to agree to direct debit payment at the time of registration, so they will always debit your account once a year without any action on your part.

 

[NickinFrance]

Thanks for that, just shows how different the systems are in differnt EU countries

You can't register a car (except when applying for temporary export plates) without proving that you yourself have a registered address in Germany. The local council offices will issue you with the necessary document.

Can a non-resident, ie a UK resident who owns a house in Germany, obtain that document ?

 

[Allen774]

I live in Spain and have done for the last 15 months,my car is still uk registered and insured by a uk company,as the car is not three years old yet it does not require an MOT so I can tax and insure on the internet,I frequently travel out of spain and have been back to England once,so long as you have the insurance and tax the MOT up to date there is no problem.I return to England for a year or more next month so to me its not worth registering the car in spain.
I would suggest Mobie 15 that you prior to your departure for your holiday you start your tax,mot and insurance on the same day to last 12 months,you can MOT your car at anytime,just bring it forward,and insure with saga or NFU for unlimited foreign travel.

 

[Lutz]

Can a non-resident, ie a UK resident who owns a house in Germany, obtain that document ?

Yes. The document can also be obtained if one is able to produce a copy of a contract for rented property. Property ownership is not necessary. However, at the same time, one also becomes income tax liable in Germany as, for German tax puproses, one is no longer considered as a UK resident. However, any income tax paid in the UK is taken into account in the German tax liability.
The process is quite common for those Germans who, for example, live in Belgium, but cross the border every day to work in Germany (or vice versa).