Anyone on strike tomorrow?

[cris_408518]

Clive the thing is we got o work to earn surely and not gain sick pay benefits. There was a time when certain public sector workers exploited holday and sickness entitlement.

Back up benefits during your working life are fine but pay and security for the future are what count.

I am the only member of my family, parents, aunts, uncles and many cousins who has not ever been a public sector worker they have been from the highest level of civil servant to humble hard working labourers and some still are! In the higher levels in the past twenty years with moves towards privatisation they have had independent consultants from the private sector staggered at the low pay and high levels of resposibilty and work load.

These people have founf it very funny when they catch on that public sectors workers in the main do not get company cars apart from the low benefit levels.

A number of close family get very good pension benefits, but spent many years like many many others being told by government that their LOW pay was compensated by a good pension and good conditions. My own father and an uncle had it on paper some years ago that an ammount equivalent to over 10% of salary was put towards there pension so they should add that to there annual salary when considering there pay levels.

A good few years apart thay both found that their pay and responsibility and other colleagues was about a 1/3 of those in private sector and two or more would have shared their single responsibility.

I have a brither who works in the health service and a sister in the Civil service, both have recently had their jobs under scrutiny of outside consultants.

My sister inlaw was really chuffed to equate her benefits, two degrees, responsibility for a huge department and huge budget to a private sector consultant with little responsibility on

 

[Lol1]

I think you will find that the Armed forces are classed as "public sector" cris. They get nice company cars too, I drove a very nice four wheel drive soft top V8.

And the pension, if you stay in for any length of time is very good, as you know.

 

[trucker]

As it happens I have a young relative who works in a junior management roll for Tesco,

 

[VIP2006]

I have read this topic with some interest, and would suggest that all pension schemes be wound up, and all contributions returned to the contributor together with the interest earned over the full time they have been members of the scheme? before any of the pesion providors and their "advisors" get their hands on it. this will allow them to fund a reasonable pension, however if you propose that what an outcry there will be and I wonder from whome.

I think that all workers entering a pension scheme should have the conditions of service and method of calculation signed at the time of entry.protected until he/she retires and that any new entrant be completely aware that his/her scheme may not be the same as previous members. I also think that all pension funds be administered by others and be regulated by others.

I am a pensioner who retired at 60 through ill health and have watched like most people the disgracefull way that that all governments and the fat cats in industry have plundered peoples pension pots.

The government have always had there finger in any pie which allows money to be taken from people either by a tax on something or other. Also no one mentions the fact that the government allows private schemes to have contribution holidays and public workers shemes are raided by the Government.

No one ever mentions the situation where a firm does not pay their pecentage of contributions and at the same time uses the funds for their own nefarious pursuits. I know that we have a set of greedy and selfish b**gers out there who are ripping off ordinary people of their hard and sometime paltry earnings and if we go on long enough I wonder what the next big rip off will be. IMHO

 

[smiley]

Well what can I say, nothing much except Clive is so very RIGHT.

I don't know about others but out side of government establishments pensions are suffering to the new changes, and our pensions are private ones.

If you don't like your job and what it offers CHANGE IT.

 

[VIP2006]

Smiley - I only hope that you are salting away around 20% of your annual salary for your pension. and that the interest rate for your pension pot is a good one during the term until retirement.that is if you want to have a pension of 50% of your annual salary. Also don't depend on a decent Goverment pension as there will be very little for OAP's in the future.

IMHO not a very bright outlook for future pensioners for like everyone its a queue that you cannot escape from.

Save Hard, tighten your belt now, and if all fails borrow up and above your means and then make yourself bankrupt.

What a rant.

 

[CliveV]

Hi Clive

I appreciate what you're saying, no offence taken.

If someone lets your tyes down at Easter, don't blame me!

smiley icon thingy.

Lisa. xx

No worries Lisa

I produce enough hot air to blow up even 4 4x4 tyres!!

 

[CliveV]

Hi cris

Sadly there will always be have and have nots. But I think you have missed the point - the employment benefits of a Civil Service/public sector job such as sick pay, Death in service benefit, Index linked guaranteed pension linked to final salary etc. are of such VALUE that to buy them personally as an employee is impossibly expensive and no business that wants to stay in business can afford to offer those benefits to their employees.

Lets have a look at just one benefit; - The index linked pension in payment.

Most Private Pensions do not give Index Linked Pensions in payment - they give usually level pensions or a modest %'age increase each year.

So as I said earlier a guy in 1990 when interest rates and so annuity rates as well, were double digit, a level pension on

 

[CliveV]

One point I forgot in the calculation above - even if the worker on

 

[cris_408518]

For- Kevin's comment.

Doing menial work or getting on in your chosen job does not mean that you work any less or suffer less stress than anyone else. For a short a while I worked in retail and trained retail staff and set up new stores. Didn't like the wallies in senior management who had little clue of what those on the shop floor had to do or put up with!

It takes all sorts of skills to do all sorts of jobs and good manners are due to shop staff as much as teachers nurses or anyone else. I have worked for others within the likes of Asda and other big Supermarkets sme years ago, and in the past was shocked by the rude way managers treated shop staff.

In well known supermarkets in recent times I have witnessed and challenged(as a mere customer)verbal abuse and belittling of staff in front of customers by store management, as a customer I do not want to see young part time staff brought to tears!

Now there is nothing wrong in being a hard working shelf filler, but a trained teaching assistant that has to do university training (not a degree) and other training and have police clearance and is expected to attend hours of unpaid meetings and refresher and update training and others unpaid requirements is I'm afraid worth a lot more an hour than a shelf filler, and many in public sector are in the same boat.

That does not mean that the shop worker is a lesser human or works less or suffers less stress.

Many carry reponsibility,work dam hard for there money and are under constant stress after a hell of a lot more training then many shop workers and are on far less pay!

I'm self employed, partly because I wouldn't put up with smart **s name calling by people like Kevin as he has resorted to above. If a few more people looked at how other people worked in the public sector maybe more would understand what today was about.

Pension's are only part of todays story!

I do work that mainly gets others out of their self made problems. I and the self employed people that work for me work at any hour and in any conditions,often when the phone rings plans kick into gear and we can hit the roads and drive through the night and work non stop sometimes for upto 48 hours any where in europe. We gat the work because no one else will do it or offer the fastresponse time and service, and then sleep in n acar or on the floor in the corner when we have finished!

It does not make me important or clever, but gives me a living and we go to some very interesting destinations and venues and meet some interesting people.

Self employed gives me choice as it does others, many many public sector workers and others take jobs and have faith that if they work hard they will be looked after and be rewarded.

Today was reflection on the fact that Public sector workers are fed up with being Sh 1 t on and often taking minimal pay.

 

[cris_408518]

All the figures are very good Clive, but pension is some time in the future. Take my Uncle a few months older than me. Civil servant with full uni and pro qualifications that he gained whilst working!!!!

After his department was privatised the new owners kept him and his boss on and paid the civil service for them until project end. One of the junior members met him on a job and then droppd him home and was surprised by his moderate home. The guy in the same line of work but not as qualified as per CS reqirements was on 1/2 as much again salary and the car and other perks, and Roys opposite number was on over double his salary with staffed department of less than a 1/3 of what he ran.

Now the pension figures look very good but many a PS worker has been and is still in a similar position as mine and others family know.

The nice big home, the home abroad, kids private schools, company car, the fancy holidays, nice club membership etc bought with the many bigger salaries in the private sector fit in where exactly!!!

You should also remember that apart from the low pay issues for many years certain sectors of public workers have the highest suicide rates, breakdowns, alcoholics and divorce rates blamed by the people who treat and investigate them on work load and pressures re the likes of living on low pay!

Things have changed but the Public Sector workers case is not just straight forward figures.

 

[elan_5041512]

All the figures are very good Clive, but pension is some time in the future. Take my Uncle a few months older than me. Civil servant with full uni and pro qualifications that he gained whilst working!!!!

After his department was privatised the new owners kept him and his boss on and paid the civil service for them until project end. One of the junior members met him on a job and then droppd him home and was surprised by his moderate home. The guy in the same line of work but not as qualified as per CS reqirements was on 1/2 as much again salary and the car and other perks, and Roys opposite number was on over double his salary with staffed department of less than a 1/3 of what he ran.

Now the pension figures look very good but many a PS worker has been and is still in a similar position as mine and others family know.

The nice big home, the home abroad, kids private schools, company car, the fancy holidays, nice club membership etc bought with the many bigger salaries in the private sector fit in where exactly!!!

You should also remember that apart from the low pay issues for many years certain sectors of public workers have the highest suicide rates, breakdowns, alcoholics and divorce rates blamed by the people who treat and investigate them on work load and pressures re the likes of living on low pay!

Things have changed but the Public Sector workers case is not just straight forward figures.

Yeah whatever, can you turn the record over now

 

[cris_408518]

All the figures are very good Clive, but pension is some time in the future. Take my Uncle a few months older than me. Civil servant with full uni and pro qualifications that he gained whilst working!!!!

After his department was privatised the new owners kept him and his boss on and paid the civil service for them until project end. One of the junior members met him on a job and then droppd him home and was surprised by his moderate home. The guy in the same line of work but not as qualified as per CS reqirements was on 1/2 as much again salary and the car and other perks, and Roys opposite number was on over double his salary with staffed department of less than a 1/3 of what he ran.

Now the pension figures look very good but many a PS worker has been and is still in a similar position as mine and others family know.

The nice big home, the home abroad, kids private schools, company car, the fancy holidays, nice club membership etc bought with the many bigger salaries in the private sector fit in where exactly!!!

You should also remember that apart from the low pay issues for many years certain sectors of public workers have the highest suicide rates, breakdowns, alcoholics and divorce rates blamed by the people who treat and investigate them on work load and pressures re the likes of living on low pay!

Things have changed but the Public Sector workers case is not just straight forward figures.

NO. You could play another ;-)

 

[Wendy-Norfolk]

For- Kevin's comment.

Doing menial work or getting on in your chosen job does not mean that you work any less or suffer less stress than anyone else. For a short a while I worked in retail and trained retail staff and set up new stores. Didn't like the wallies in senior management who had little clue of what those on the shop floor had to do or put up with!

It takes all sorts of skills to do all sorts of jobs and good manners are due to shop staff as much as teachers nurses or anyone else. I have worked for others within the likes of Asda and other big Supermarkets sme years ago, and in the past was shocked by the rude way managers treated shop staff.

In well known supermarkets in recent times I have witnessed and challenged(as a mere customer)verbal abuse and belittling of staff in front of customers by store management, as a customer I do not want to see young part time staff brought to tears!

Now there is nothing wrong in being a hard working shelf filler, but a trained teaching assistant that has to do university training (not a degree) and other training and have police clearance and is expected to attend hours of unpaid meetings and refresher and update training and others unpaid requirements is I'm afraid worth a lot more an hour than a shelf filler, and many in public sector are in the same boat.

That does not mean that the shop worker is a lesser human or works less or suffers less stress.

Many carry reponsibility,work dam hard for there money and are under constant stress after a hell of a lot more training then many shop workers and are on far less pay!

I'm self employed, partly because I wouldn't put up with smart **s name calling by people like Kevin as he has resorted to above. If a few more people looked at how other people worked in the public sector maybe more would understand what today was about.

Pension's are only part of todays story!

I do work that mainly gets others out of their self made problems. I and the self employed people that work for me work at any hour and in any conditions,often when the phone rings plans kick into gear and we can hit the roads and drive through the night and work non stop sometimes for upto 48 hours any where in europe. We gat the work because no one else will do it or offer the fastresponse time and service, and then sleep in n acar or on the floor in the corner when we have finished!

It does not make me important or clever, but gives me a living and we go to some very interesting destinations and venues and meet some interesting people.

Self employed gives me choice as it does others, many many public sector workers and others take jobs and have faith that if they work hard they will be looked after and be rewarded.

Today was reflection on the fact that Public sector workers are fed up with being Sh 1 t on and often taking minimal pay.

cris, I live in a very rural area, and I know for a fact that the classroom assistants in our local primary school have been promoted from school cooks and playground assistants. University trained?

 

[Wendy-Norfolk]

cris, I live in a very rural area, and I know for a fact that the classroom assistants in our local primary school have been promoted from school cooks and playground assistants. University trained?

Should have been a comment to your previous posting!!

 

[cris_408518]

All the figures are very good Clive, but pension is some time in the future. Take my Uncle a few months older than me. Civil servant with full uni and pro qualifications that he gained whilst working!!!!

After his department was privatised the new owners kept him and his boss on and paid the civil service for them until project end. One of the junior members met him on a job and then droppd him home and was surprised by his moderate home. The guy in the same line of work but not as qualified as per CS reqirements was on 1/2 as much again salary and the car and other perks, and Roys opposite number was on over double his salary with staffed department of less than a 1/3 of what he ran.

Now the pension figures look very good but many a PS worker has been and is still in a similar position as mine and others family know.

The nice big home, the home abroad, kids private schools, company car, the fancy holidays, nice club membership etc bought with the many bigger salaries in the private sector fit in where exactly!!!

You should also remember that apart from the low pay issues for many years certain sectors of public workers have the highest suicide rates, breakdowns, alcoholics and divorce rates blamed by the people who treat and investigate them on work load and pressures re the likes of living on low pay!

Things have changed but the Public Sector workers case is not just straight forward figures.

ps, Clive.

Your figures are based on shemes run by companies making a profit and paying nice salaries and commisions to people like you as well.

With Gov/Public sector the pension fund could be and could have been run as a Non profit state pension company paying out far better returns than the pittance peoples pension savings get by the time all the fat cats have had their slice of the cake and have been sat in nice fat offices or sipping champers at nice events funded by the ad budget ;-)

That of course would mean good Governance and Management that UK PLC seems to fail at unless somebody is getting all the cream off the top of the cake :-0

 

[cris_408518]

For- Kevin's comment.

Doing menial work or getting on in your chosen job does not mean that you work any less or suffer less stress than anyone else. For a short a while I worked in retail and trained retail staff and set up new stores. Didn't like the wallies in senior management who had little clue of what those on the shop floor had to do or put up with!

It takes all sorts of skills to do all sorts of jobs and good manners are due to shop staff as much as teachers nurses or anyone else. I have worked for others within the likes of Asda and other big Supermarkets sme years ago, and in the past was shocked by the rude way managers treated shop staff.

In well known supermarkets in recent times I have witnessed and challenged(as a mere customer)verbal abuse and belittling of staff in front of customers by store management, as a customer I do not want to see young part time staff brought to tears!

Now there is nothing wrong in being a hard working shelf filler, but a trained teaching assistant that has to do university training (not a degree) and other training and have police clearance and is expected to attend hours of unpaid meetings and refresher and update training and others unpaid requirements is I'm afraid worth a lot more an hour than a shelf filler, and many in public sector are in the same boat.

That does not mean that the shop worker is a lesser human or works less or suffers less stress.

Many carry reponsibility,work dam hard for there money and are under constant stress after a hell of a lot more training then many shop workers and are on far less pay!

I'm self employed, partly because I wouldn't put up with smart **s name calling by people like Kevin as he has resorted to above. If a few more people looked at how other people worked in the public sector maybe more would understand what today was about.

Pension's are only part of todays story!

I do work that mainly gets others out of their self made problems. I and the self employed people that work for me work at any hour and in any conditions,often when the phone rings plans kick into gear and we can hit the roads and drive through the night and work non stop sometimes for upto 48 hours any where in europe. We gat the work because no one else will do it or offer the fastresponse time and service, and then sleep in n acar or on the floor in the corner when we have finished!

It does not make me important or clever, but gives me a living and we go to some very interesting destinations and venues and meet some interesting people.

Self employed gives me choice as it does others, many many public sector workers and others take jobs and have faith that if they work hard they will be looked after and be rewarded.

Today was reflection on the fact that Public sector workers are fed up with being Sh 1 t on and often taking minimal pay.

Yes Wendy and T/A's at my wifes schools have and are the same in some cases.

Marriage and children mean that some who are educated take a "little" job to fit in with there family and children so dinner lady jobs etc are ideal.

Part of my wifes job is mentoring and assessing T/A's training and sending reports to and liasing with the university course tutuours who run the hours of courses they attend and mark the many hours of work they have to complete the courses and others!

They are not degree courses as I said!

 

[CliveV]

cris - sorry mate - you are wrong again!

The figs I quote are EXACTLY correct for a person that the "85 Rule" applies to for an individual in the public sector whose Final Salary is

 

[VIP2006]

cris - sorry mate - you are wrong again!

The figs I quote are EXACTLY correct for a person that the "85 Rule" applies to for an individual in the public sector whose Final Salary is

 

[cris_408518]

The number of jobs is finite Clive and for a variety of reasons like family and security and peace of mind many millions have stayed in the same jobs for years.

Does that mean that they should not expect comaparable pay and conditions in the work place (not talking pensions here).

All your figures are still based on results after company profits and running costs. The way Government goes about funding Public Sector workers pensions is not the fault of the workers.

It is not the fault of the worker that the government has not kept an eye on wjhat is going on with the economy and run the pension as a non profit investment business when they have the data as to what is happening population wise.

No doubt you are very good at your job and run a straight operation, but take a hard working guy with limited education who had mnade a few bob. IFA guy set uo his pension and the guy 5 years in didn't understand what was going on and why the guy had suggested a better option. Inquiries to the pension provider and others made no sense to the guy me and another person. IFA turned up again to explain to the guy who was baffled but not convinced. Further enquiries to the companies concerned led to more mumbo jumbo and the IFA and associate were sent to explain again.

The guy was a little happier with the explanation but then approached the two companies involved with the tape of the meeting :-0

His legal advice at the suggestion of the pension fund people was paid for and all the money he had paid in was put into a "highly topped up fund" ;-) two other IFA's were asked to check the new deal he was ofered for his silence and they could not believe what they were seeing. The deal is tied up "legally" for obvious reasons.

You see Clive what figures you quote and what is possible in pension funding and investment returns can be altered ;-)

Government and others tie people up with figures and clever wording, suspicions from three lay men caused panic in a sector of your industy that was well covered up.

This idea that public sector pay rates are on par with private sector is still laughable for huge numbers of people today.

 

[CliveV]

Sorry cris - I have read what you have written several times and I still do not understand it!

On the one hand you are saying that one IFA did something wrong and another IFA confirmed this.

When you are dealing with the general public you are always going to have some unsatisfied customers - We had a complaint here recently where a client complained because the investment he made via us of

 

[smiley]

Clive

Do you work for the FOS at all.

My next door neighbour was outraged at his pension being capped at

 

[cris_408518]

My friend/associate bacame concerned about the action and words of an IFA who had been reccomended to him. His and our concerns also concerend numbered pages from his plan not being given to him.

Contact with a company that empued the IFA or he was an associate of and contact with the pension/investment co who the money was invested with drew a blank. Talk of ombudsman and governeing complaint was dismissed as my friend had misunderstood the well educated pro IFA with years of experience and good track record.

All the advice given re his complaints was put down to misunderstanding by the clent and inability of him to express his requirements to the IFA that could have led to a little confusion.

A meeting was arranged where the IFA joined by onother IFA met the client in abid to allay his fears and the second guy get the texh talk to a level my friend could understand, also so he could explain what he asked when the plan had been set up so the IFA aided by his associate could explain the interaction between my friends needs and what the IFA had provided and done.

A private meeting was held at the guys house and the two gents spent some hours expalining all to the guy.

"your word against his" had been mentioned many times and remarks re the guys level of understanding, so a pro recording of the meeting was made unbeknown to the two IFA's.

The guy was reasonably happy and convinced by the guys but sent copys of the tape to the IFA's associate/employing company and the large pension provider with a brief note.

Phone rang and all hell broke loose Clive. The pension company paid for and advised my friend to take leal advice from solicitors of his choice, a deal was done providing him with a highly topped up fund that included every penny he had paid in + interest at a very high rate and shall we say a large sum as compensation. He was given the choice of moving the funds but was offerd VERY preferential rates to keep the pension fund where it was and continue paying in and get the special rates.

His solicitor had two IFA's check what was being offered and they were the guys who could not believe what they were seeing. The deal was tied up legally for the obvious reasons. We understand that the IFA and others were "dealt" with internally and left the industry!

Point I was making is Clive how many others lost out and what could the industry provide really, especially if Governement ran their own non profit investment pension sceme. ie, all the profit went into pensions and investment and not the many who get a cut of the private pension companies.

 

[CliveV]

cris - if your friend is a Public Sector employee - what on earth is he doing with a private pension? The Government 80th scheme is recognised as being the very best possible.

Shiraz - how on earth do Public Sector employees contribute to my pension fund? Come off it! What are you talking about?

Smiley - the Life Time Allowance [LTE] was originally called the Lifetime Limit but the spin doctors thought that "limit" was a negative term whereas "allowance" conjures up visions of something positive! - Just shows how these people think!!!

It came about because under the old system which disappears in a matter of days now, each employment was capped for pension purposes at about

 

[smiley]

Clive

How did you know my old neighbour was NHS and did private practice?

He also about 40 days paid holiday aswell.