Anyone on strike tomorrow?

[VIP2006]

Clive V - Because like most peoplethey are buying goods and services from the private sector.

Are you saying that no public employees do not use yours and other FS, if they are not then I understand why you are anti public service employees.

I beleive that if you don't get any business from the public sector that you employ a carefully selected public sector employee(s) and give four days training and then set him loose among the public sector workers, doing this should snare some very innocent and very much gullible clients. just look in the past when this was done in many private sector employers in the 70's to 80's and I suspect it is still going on to this day - IMHO

 

[CliveV]

Hi Smiley

Advising the NHS is my speciality.

Right from day one they dished out stunning benefits to attract staff. GP's for example are actually self-employed but members of an employers occupational pension scheme!

This is facilitated by the Parliamentary Special Concession A9. Interestingly if the GP gives up the tax relief on the NHS Pension Scheme, they can still be a full member of the NHSPS but also pension their income again via Private Pensions. So GP's (up until April 6th this year) could pension the same income twice!

This loophole is affectively closed by the New Pension Simplification Proposals that start next fiscal year.

Also - GP's have a benefit called "Cost Rent" and "Notional Rent" - it is very complex but in its most basic form this allows GP's to buy the Surgery building and get a rebate from the PCT equivalent to what the PCT would have to pay if they had to rent that same building.

So a GP can buy a building and work out of it, get the Commercial Mortgage paid for by the PCT under the Cost Rent scheme and then when the GP retires they get a very good pension plus their equity share of the building!

I have always thought I would like an equivalent to the Cost Rent scheme to enable me to buy a new office. My Accountant and our Solicitor think the same!

And it is all paid for out of Taxes.

 

[CliveV]

Hi Shiraz

The fact that I advise MANY Public Sector employees - mainly in the NHS means that I know that what you are saying is not really relevent. It also means that I have to analyse the reletive benefits of both Private and Public sector employees.

From what I have seen most small companies bulk at putting in even the most basic of Stakeholder pension scheme. Employee benefits? - Forget it - statutory sick pay is all they get. No such luxury as 6 months full pay then 6 months half pay and a subsidised Ill health pension after that!

We all buy things - and we all pay taxes, but nobody is going to use the tax that I pay to fund my pension scheme or provide me with such a superb accident and sickness benefit!

The only common thing we all get is the State pension. But the issue has allways been the 1/80 accrual Final Salary scheme enjoyed by the Public Sector that has no fund - it is paid directly out of Tax collected.

So Gordons first stealth tax on Dividend Income within pension funds does not affect Public Sector employees. Oh! and it was Public sector employees that dreamt up that little scam and SCAM is most certainly what it is!

So the Public Sector Pension scheme is not taxed like my pension fund and will always rely on the great Brittish Public to carry on paying Income tax, CGT, IHT, POAT (Pre Owned Asset Tax) and Council Tax so that some of the money can be siphoned off to pay the Public Sector pension bill.

Sorry Shiraz - that is fact.

I am not Anti Public Sector at all

I just get fed up with my savings being eroded, a higher tax burden, more stupid burocracy than I have ever seen (dished out by Government Dept.s that of course employ the Public Sector employees whose pension I and all Tax payers pay for, and on top of that I am told that my Libray is closed because the employees want to keep the right to have a full Index Linked pension after just 25 years when it should take 40 years to accrue.

And even when it does take 40 years to accrue it is still the VERY BEST PENSION SCHEME OUT THERE AND THE EMPLOYEE ONLY CONTRIBUTES 6% WHILST I AND ALL THE OTHER TAX PAYERS PROVIDE THE OTHER 15%.

No wonder Gordon keeps having to increase the tax burdon on us all!

 

[cris_408518]

Clive. Never mentioned him being PS worker, he is not.

Just pointing out that pension fund Numbers are all very fine. But the figures and results we end up with are after things such my friends debacle being paid for. Bottom line, profit , shareholder, operating costs and then a % to pay those that put the funds in when they get to retirement.

Public Sector/Civil Service pension could have/be run as a non profit fund by the government to pay those in Public Sector Employment.

Many in the public sectors are in jobs unique to that sector and that prevents the two way direction for many!

"You make your bed, you lay in it"

Your words!

A million plus who went on strike made their beds lay in them and then find they are having the blankets ripped off !

That is not their fault and they are obviously put out!

 

[VIP2006]

Clive V - as you can see I am anti- FA and for very good reasons

In the 1960's when I was saving to get wed I was told by the then FA (the man from the pru) that I should take out an endowment policy so that when I was ready I could use it towards house purchase. I informed him one year later that I was ready to buy a house and he said OK and arranged for me to see a local solicitor to start proceedings I was interviewed by the solicitor and he advised me to not use the endowment for house purchase and to go for a repayment mortgage with a building society and his calculations showed that I would pay approximately

 

[Ramblingrose]

I would have more sympathy with the strike if my pension rights were as good as the public sector workers.

Why should my taxes go towards giving someone a full pension based on final salary pay at the age of 60 when it looks as if I personally will have to work until Im 70 if Mr Blair has his way. And I will only get a pension based on what I have paid in (if Im lucky)

All people in this country should be treated equally.

 

[Guest]

I may not have fully understood the issue, but as far as I can gather there is NO proposed change to the normal retirement date of LG workers, it is still 65 as it has always been. What is changing is the 'rule of 85' where a worker can add his/her service to their age and if they total 85 they can then retire early on full pension. So 60 years of age only needs 25 years of service to qualify. Nice work if you can get it. This is an anomaly which breaks EU legislation and is to be rescinded. The big problem is that the Government 'caved' in to pressure and gave a retirement age of 60 to teachers, doctors etc and so of course all the rest want the same, even although their Contracts don't actually allow it. The other issue is the Unions see Mr G Brown coming in by the back door and think that if they put the pressure on now, he will cave into any demand they make. We will then be back into the 'Winter of Discontent' before you can say 'Where is Maggie??'

 

[CliveV]

Shiraz - In the 1960's an endowment was a VERY good thing!

You had LAPR - Life Assurance Premium Relief which meant that a premium of

 

[CliveV]

Shiraz - In the 1960's an endowment was a VERY good thing!

You had LAPR - Life Assurance Premium Relief which meant that a premium of

 

[VIP2006]

CliveV - Who said that I trusted solicitors as well as FA.

you missed my point, albeit to suit your position. I was referring to the FA who would know what you know that I would be seriously out of pocket but advised me to keep it going for 3 years when I could stopped then and there and saved

 

[smiley]

Chris

I must remember this line, very funny really.

A million plus who went on strike made their beds lay in them and then find they are having the blankets ripped off !

Clive I have endowmments just had one thrown back at us after 15 years no comp, they couldn't wait to get rid of us. But of course we have also lost the life cover that was substantial.

Don't know if we had any choices buts it's done now.

I must qoute Chris's line to the situation though.........We made our beds and they ripped the covers off us.

 

[cris_408518]

R'rose. The people that went on strike also pay tax! And they should not be blamed for various Governments and the present ones poor management and failures.

Some in the public sector may get comparable pay to the private sector, but the fact is many do not no matter what Clive thinks.

 

[cris_408518]

Chris

I must remember this line, very funny really.

A million plus who went on strike made their beds lay in them and then find they are having the blankets ripped off !

Clive I have endowmments just had one thrown back at us after 15 years no comp, they couldn't wait to get rid of us. But of course we have also lost the life cover that was substantial.

Don't know if we had any choices buts it's done now.

I must qoute Chris's line to the situation though.........We made our beds and they ripped the covers off us.

Pleased to oblige Smilley.

I iwas meant to amuse and reply to Clives comment. To many times "goal posts" are moved and various factors blamed for Joe public anding up with less than he expected. But quite often the directors still get their bonus's and the share holders get a nice fat cheque and all the others get a nice slice of the cale whilst old "Joe P" has to face reality and realise that things change, and of course understand that his MP will get a fat pay increase other very nice perks and probably end up witha directorship of his pension Co ;-)

 

[VIP2006]

Chris and Smiley - civil servants, NHS workers (Doctors nurses ambulance) police, fire, teachers, and local government clerical and manual workers make up the bulk of the public sector workers. and have as part of their conditions of service a pension scheme which in part compensates them for the paltry salaries that have had over many years. Some of the workers in the sectors given above have a cumulative expertise that is not to be found in any other part of our society. I can remember in the the 80's/90's when the local goverment service went overboard in allowing workers to retire with enhancement to full pensions, redundancy pay. and it was called in those days getting rid of the oldies (over fifty being to old to to a good days work) and what did that do for us, nothing except that service experience was lost at a stroke, and as the saying goes "you cannot put old heads on young shoulders" During those years there was only one company who recognised the wealth of experience had been lost to the nation and that and still is the largest DIY chain in the UK. and you can see the evidence if you go there at any time. The taxes we pay, and I agree they are made up of income tax, local goverment tax, VAT and the many stealth taxes that succesive government have imposed. and many people in the private and public sectors cannot see each others point of view regarding their role and place in today's society.

In my younger days banks were banks, building societies were building societies and mainly mutual at that. Insurance Companies were Insurance Companies,

Nowadays Banks encompass Building Societies (not many mutual anymore) Insurance Companies, Estate Agents etc. etc. and people have accepted that market forces are the order of the day. however a downside exists in as much that monnitoring and regulation of the new systems have seriously lagged behind the changes and IMHO this where the rogues of our society have stepped and made the UK a rip off society.

Ordinary people in the main want

1 - A job that is meaningfull, rewarding, secure and the pay commensurate with the skills required for the job so they can bring up there families in decent accomodation and have a good education for themselves and family.

2 - a improvement in their standard of living during their working lives

3 A pension (however it is made up) so that in their twilight years they can comfortable exist.

Not to much to ask for is it?

 

[CliveV]

CliveV - Who said that I trusted solicitors as well as FA.

you missed my point, albeit to suit your position. I was referring to the FA who would know what you know that I would be seriously out of pocket but advised me to keep it going for 3 years when I could stopped then and there and saved

 

[CliveV]

Sorry guys - paltry salaries in the Public Sector?

Not at middle management level and certainly not when the full benefit structure is taken into account.

As for the Local Government pensions - the Consulting Actuaries Hymans Robertsone;-

http://www.hymans.co.uk/hrllp/templates/home.asp
state that 26% of Council Tax does not to fund the services that we pay our Councils to provide.

This 26% pays the pensions of retired Local Government workers.

So whilst it is true that we all pay taxes, why do you think it unreasonable when many of us object to taxes that we, as well as the elderly, pay being used to ensure that a select band of workers can retire on full pensions after just 25 years?

This is a slap in the face to all those workers in the Private Sector who are told that because of their pension fund being taxed and the poor performance of the markets, we will have to work into our 70's to get any sort of pension at all!

And you seriously think that by going on strike to ensure that my Council Tax Bill increases by 2% so that someone else can retire at 60 when over a quarter of my bill already goes to pay someone else's pension - you are going to "win friends and influence people"??

You guys need a reality check!

 

[CliveV]

Smiley

I do not understand what you say about the Endowment you had.

If you wish we can look at it for you - We do represent a lot of clients when they need to complain - the FOS is the last resort.

Email the Mod with your details if you would like an analysis - no charge! The mod will I am sure then pass them to me.

I realise I have strong views on certain matters and may have upset some! - So this would be a "freebie" to show what a nice guy I am really!!

 

[VIP2006]

Hi Shiraz

But you took the solicitors advice above that of the adviser. I just wondered why? Because the longer you keep any investment going, all things being equal - the better off you will be.

I cannot reason with someone who has a closed mind - you have made you mind up and whatever is said you will not change it seems.

In their day Endowments offerred Live Cover and greater tax relief via LAPR and MIRAS. That made them better value.

It seems you made a bad choice of Solicitor and a where amis in not getting the advice checked out by an IFA as the "The Man from the PRU" was a tied agent and worked for as was an Agent of Prudential.

An IFA works for you the client and acts as your agent in dealing with Life Offices. Very significant diferences.

Please do not take this personaly Shiraz but your comment re paying for the Solicitors advice is very telling. You paid for it - therfore you ditched the advice of the man from the Pru(which seemed sound to me given the Tax incentives and the lack of any modern tax efficient investments such as ISA and Peps in the 60's) and started all over again with a new mortgage!

It seems that because you didn't pay for the financial advice you didn't value it. And yet the man from the Pru's advice was more tax efficient, less costly and already in place!

Your attitude sums up the reason why all IFA's are now more than happy to charge fees.

Our clients sign a Fee Agreement or no work gets done!

Seems like you just want to blame someone to me.

Thanks for your comments Clive they are much appreciated, my choice of Solicitor was not made by me, it was made by the INSURANCE COMPANY. Unfortunately you cannot get very far without a legal eagle but you can decide whether you want to use a FA which I choose not to every everytime. I would choose not to use FA for I think that the advice given by FA,s is biased towards how much commision they receive from the companies they recommend albeit it will be more subtly done than prior to FA cleaning up their act (Hah,HAh) I, on principle will not use a FA under any circumstances and my advice to anyone is to take out the cheapest life insurance available and invest the rest in a good bank which pays around 5% net for every pound saved, this in my opinion is more than any fancy dan scheme will return using FA and their whiz kid comrades. I hope that the public sector workers retain their pension scheme even if it costs me and the tax payers a paltry few pounds more. Remember clive people have short memories but as long as I am about I will keep reminding people that what goes around, comes around. but what lot of misery is caused by a few in the cycle. Clive go and get yourself a job in the public sector, because your tainted psuedo profession is doomed. IMHO

 

[CliveV]

Hi Shiraz

But you took the solicitors advice above that of the adviser. I just wondered why? Because the longer you keep any investment going, all things being equal - the better off you will be.

I cannot reason with someone who has a closed mind - you have made you mind up and whatever is said you will not change it seems.

In their day Endowments offerred Live Cover and greater tax relief via LAPR and MIRAS. That made them better value.

It seems you made a bad choice of Solicitor and a where amis in not getting the advice checked out by an IFA as the "The Man from the PRU" was a tied agent and worked for as was an Agent of Prudential.

An IFA works for you the client and acts as your agent in dealing with Life Offices. Very significant diferences.

Please do not take this personaly Shiraz but your comment re paying for the Solicitors advice is very telling. You paid for it - therfore you ditched the advice of the man from the Pru(which seemed sound to me given the Tax incentives and the lack of any modern tax efficient investments such as ISA and Peps in the 60's) and started all over again with a new mortgage!

It seems that because you didn't pay for the financial advice you didn't value it. And yet the man from the Pru's advice was more tax efficient, less costly and already in place!

Your attitude sums up the reason why all IFA's are now more than happy to charge fees.

Our clients sign a Fee Agreement or no work gets done!

Seems like you just want to blame someone to me.

You clearly would like to think that Shiraz due to the poor advice you recieved 25 years ago!

Things have moved on a bit by now!

You are a classic case where someone says "in my 25 years of experience" blah blah blah

when in reality you have just one year of experience which is now 25 years old.

Sorry Mate - but having just had a review with a client that is delighted with the performance of one of their investments in particular (A property fund that grew at 34% in the last twelve months!)

Are they interested in having money on deposit?

For a cash reserve yes - for all of it - No.

As for the Banks - have you seen the profit they make???

It is guys like you that enables them to do so well!!

 

[cris_408518]

Chris and Smiley - civil servants, NHS workers (Doctors nurses ambulance) police, fire, teachers, and local government clerical and manual workers make up the bulk of the public sector workers. and have as part of their conditions of service a pension scheme which in part compensates them for the paltry salaries that have had over many years. Some of the workers in the sectors given above have a cumulative expertise that is not to be found in any other part of our society. I can remember in the the 80's/90's when the local goverment service went overboard in allowing workers to retire with enhancement to full pensions, redundancy pay. and it was called in those days getting rid of the oldies (over fifty being to old to to a good days work) and what did that do for us, nothing except that service experience was lost at a stroke, and as the saying goes "you cannot put old heads on young shoulders" During those years there was only one company who recognised the wealth of experience had been lost to the nation and that and still is the largest DIY chain in the UK. and you can see the evidence if you go there at any time. The taxes we pay, and I agree they are made up of income tax, local goverment tax, VAT and the many stealth taxes that succesive government have imposed. and many people in the private and public sectors cannot see each others point of view regarding their role and place in today's society.

In my younger days banks were banks, building societies were building societies and mainly mutual at that. Insurance Companies were Insurance Companies,

Nowadays Banks encompass Building Societies (not many mutual anymore) Insurance Companies, Estate Agents etc. etc. and people have accepted that market forces are the order of the day. however a downside exists in as much that monnitoring and regulation of the new systems have seriously lagged behind the changes and IMHO this where the rogues of our society have stepped and made the UK a rip off society.

Ordinary people in the main want

1 - A job that is meaningfull, rewarding, secure and the pay commensurate with the skills required for the job so they can bring up there families in decent accomodation and have a good education for themselves and family.

2 - a improvement in their standard of living during their working lives

3 A pension (however it is made up) so that in their twilight years they can comfortable exist.

Not to much to ask for is it?

Right on Shiraz.

I'm with you pal. Joe Public wants a fare deal and in words he/she can understand. No MP mumbo jumbo and not nbe expected to roll other when others have screwed up and lost track of what is going on.

 

[smiley]

Thanks Clive, have done.

 

[cris_408518]

Clive. I have a daughter who works in an executive roll for a well known company who get most of their work from the governemnt and Public sector depts including NHS.

Part of the reason she moved from the public Sector to her present roll was the

 

[CliveV]

Thats Great! I am really pleased for them - They sound like people who need a good IFA!!! LOL!!!

Seriously - they have done well and probably will continue to do so. I am pleased for them.

But hang on cris!

One minute you are quoting personal examples of people who work in the public sector earning a pitance and then you are quoting something else?

Methinks you protest (by way of examples) a tad too much.

 

[cris_408518]

Clive.

Remember I'm self employed. MY CHOICE. And I often just walk away from idiots on jobs or reject work from prats and whingers. But I'm a bit crazy and stupid, and nearly always have another pot on the boil.

My family were all manual workers and labourers and many still are and we have plenty who are council and health service workers etc.

Most still live in the same area and as my mothers parents who between them had 27 brothers and sisters,I can assure you that there is a heck of a lot of family who will dispute the parity on pay thing apart from me who generally see's it at higher levels of the emplyment ladder

For whatever reasons they make their choices even at lower levels we do not see much of pay parity.

I reckon from what you have posted here you are good at your IFA job.

But figures and rules do not stop others having a valid grievance,especially when they have been sold a deal on years and years of prior presidences and current proposed alterations are not of their making.

No one really wants to pay more out of their tax's, but for years and years public sector workers have been told that "they were" paying for the nice pension and early retirement ages.

How the "Bungles" in Westminster have funded the PS pensions over the generations is not the workers fault and has little to do with the figures you have to hand.

 

[CliveV]

Cris - I am Self employed as well and like you we are rather selective in who we take on. That is not crazy - that is good business sense in my book.

I have a mechanic friend that nearly went bust because he was a nice bloke and so let people borrow tools and not pay him.

He soon learnt that such actions did not pay the bills and changed.

I can see we will have to agree to disagree on this but on one thing we can agree - from having a pension system that was the envy of the world - Compare ours even now to Germany France & Spain - Gordon Brown has ripped the heart out of the "Savings Culture".

I do not recommend pensions because with annuity rates at less than 5% it will take longer than most peoples expected life expectancy to even reach the break even point!