Aquaroll - Heated?

[Grey13]

OK so because I am feeling strong today after 3 great sunny days I think I can withstand some expected corny comments to this question, thought, comment.

Has anyone ever considered either heating the water in their "Aquaroll" or replacing it with a similar insulated vessel that can be heated. Even if it gets heated to say 50 deg for those that WANT (no not need because we all know many enjoy short or "submarine style showers" or simply use site facilities) so even if it gets heated to 50 deg it will greatly lengthen the hot water supply in the van.

OK to pre-empt the next comment, think about it, certainly in our case all water is used hot, washing dishes, showering, making tea etc. We drink bottled water for cold human consumption.

Oh and you don't have to have it on all day, only at shower times actually or a few hours before that.

Ok let's hear the comments and I will dream on!

 

[otherclive]

Over many years I’ve become used to submarine showers, but if I use site showers I think I’m being water-boarded

 

[Hutch]

A poster on here a year or two ago, used an Aquarium, water heater in his Aqua roll in the winter to stop it from Freezing. ( Hopefully no fish in the Aqua roll)

 

[Anseo]

Interesting Grey13.

To achieve say 43 degrees Celsius (I think 43deg is just below scalding point), what power output of heater would be required (Kw)?.

If an aquaroll auto waterfill was used then the incoming cold water would obviously have a cooling effect, I guess that using an auto-fill would really complicate matters, but making sure the aquaroll was pretty well topped up at all times could prove to be an inconvenience.

Not wishing to complicate matters, as I said, I find your idea interesting.

 

[Hutch]

Interesting Grey13.

To achieve say 43 degrees Celsius (I think 43deg is just below scalding point), what power output of heater would be required ?

I suppose if you used TWO aquarium, heaters both set to 20ć then you would get 40ć and not get scalded. :evil:

 

[Grey13]

OK the calc's are not difficult but I found this site that makes it even easier. Remember this is assuming there is no heat loss at all from the storage device. I choose 600 watts because I use 2 x 300 watt heaters in my small goldfish pond in my courtyard in winter just to prevent icing over and stopping the water getting very cold. I also have a Perspex sheet that covers at least 1/2 of the pond when it snows etc. Anyway 600 watts adds a load of 2.5 amps to the van load, not too bad and as already pointed out my Truma Ultrastore keeping 10 liters at 60 deg C even if my Aquaroll were at 40 Deg C it would make a massive difference. If anyone ever tries this be sure to check your RCD to prevent any form of shorting as the Aquaroll is generally not earthed. I think I will try this soon, I already have a Aquaroll jacket for insulation.

30 Liters warmed from 10 deg C to 40 deg C using 600 watts will take 1 hour 45 mins

https://bloglocation.com/art/water-heating-calculator-for-time-energy-power

 

[Grey13]

The water from your Truma Ultrastore is already at 60 deg C.

 

[Hutch]

Grey, you obviously have too much time on your hands, which is nice, all this thinking :huh:
I go out with the dogs, Mrs H has a nice long shower, I come back change to the second Aqua roll , just in case and, the Truma combi will have hit the 70c temp and I can get in and have a nice long shower if required. Have breakfast and the water is hot enough for the washing up. I do enough faffing about when away in the van to have another thing to breakdown on me.

 

[Craigyoung]

I'll just keep on using on site facilities thanks !! :lol:

 

[Raywood]

A fish tank heater would take for ever and would not be hot enough for anything more than a lukewarm shower. Not even sure about using it in the Aquarol in Winter as surely the pipe to the caravan would freeze first.
Our Truma heats to 60 on electricity in a very short time so with no benefit in heating the water outside I have never looked at the idea though or how to wire it up.

 

[Buckman]

If you use a fish tank heater to warm the water to about 18 - 20C then your shower should last longer as the cold water replacing the hot water will not drop the temperature of the hot water as much. You could always invest in an "Alde Flow Continuous Hot Water" system.

 

[VicMallows]

The time when this would be really useful is on no-facillity no-EHU sites, so I think you should be looking at solar water heating solutions A panel of around 2 sq ft propped up against the aquaroll and connected top and bottom should work by gravity circulation and would easily preheat the water ..... as long as the sun shines!

Simple solar shower bags also work remarkably well .... and cost well under £10 :lol:

 

[ProfJohnL]

I've never come across a heated water barrel, but it certainly could extend teh duration of a normal caravan shower, but the figures banded around so far don't seem to be fully thought through. In particular the suggestion of heating the barrel to 40C!

Just remember that most people shower at between 30 to 35C , which is well below the water heaters setting, and in practice you will normally need to be able to mix the heaters out put with some cold water to produce the required temperature. If teh water barrel is at 40C, then it would not bring the shower water down to a usable temperature.

The max power available in a caravan will limit the practical power of the element you could use in the barrel. The power rating does not set the temperature it only affects how quickly it would heat the quantity of water. The maximum temperature is affected by the insulation used, but also it would be wise to have some sort thermostatic control to prevent excess temperature, and of course for safety there should be a fusible thermal link to prevent runaway temperature if the thermostat fails.

You should also have some form of water level control so the elements cant run dry.

There is also the possible issue of having the raised water temperatures in teh barrel could make an ideal breeding ground for microbes such as Legionella. This should be avoided if at all possible, becasue especially Legionella is known to attack middle aged to older people sadly almost exactly the same demographic as many caravanners.

Happy caravanning :blink:

 

[Grey13]

So back on my favourite topic, van shower hot water.

May I clarify, I know many people use site facilities, others don't mind short showers and for all I know some may not shower at all, so it would be great if interested parties could restrict comments to the technical aspects and viability of getting an increased flow of hot (30 Deg C) water to the shower so it lasts a lot longer.

One way I am considering is to simply place a heating element in the Aqua Roll to raise that water from say 10 Deg C to say 30 deg C.

Have a look at these calcs and give your opinion in principle about trying this.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The theory seems ok, but I do wonder how practical it is.

 

[Mel]

Way out of my expertise here, but presume it depends on an insulated aqua Roll? Also Is the assumption that the starting temperature is 10 degrees valid? Will there not be greater variation depending on ambient?
( flipppin eck that almost sounds like I know what I am talking about)
Hope you can make it work.
Mel

 

[Beehpee]

I’m not sure how to phrase this post so let me say at the outset I don’t mean to be rude or cause offence.
This topic has been rambling on for over 3 months with little, if any progress of achieving the goal of heating the aqua roll, one thing I will point out before I continue, it was mentioned about putting 2 aquarium heaters set at 20c in the aqua to get the water to 40c, well if you put a dozen heaters set at 20 in the Aqua roll you’d still only have water that reached 20, that’s going off my point of writing though, surely caravanning is about enjoying our leisure time in the great outdoors, with the existing shower in most caravans it will give the user at the very least a basic shower or there’s the facilities on site if going to a half decent campsite which will offer from grungy to great showering options, I’m afraid if my time could only be filled by spending 3 months trying to re invent the wheel I think by now I’d have found a more fulfilling hobby that occupies my time, I’m a great believer in each to their own but surely some topics just take up space for the sake of it.

BP

 

[otherclive]

I’m not sure how to phrase this post so let me say at the outset I don’t mean to be rude or cause offence.
This topic has been rambling on for over 3 months with little, if any progress of achieving the goal of heating the aqua roll, one thing I will point out before I continue, it was mentioned about putting 2 aquarium heaters set at 20c in the aqua to get the water to 40c, well if you put a dozen heaters set at 20 in the Aqua roll you’d still only have water that reached 20, that’s going off my point of writing though, surely caravanning is about enjoying our leisure time in the great outdoors, with the existing shower in most caravans it will give the user at the very least a basic shower or there’s the facilities on site if going to a half decent campsite which will offer from grungy to great showering options, I’m afraid if my time could only be filled by spending 3 months trying to re invent the wheel I think by now I’d have found a more fulfilling hobby that occupies my time, I’m a great believer in each to their own but surely some topics just take up space for the sake of it.

BP

The OP has explained why he want to have longer showers in his caravan. Whilst I can’t see the need, he has every right to seek advice. You don’t have to open and read the thread if you feel it’s wasting your time.

 

[Parksy]

I’m not sure how to phrase this post so let me say at the outset I don’t mean to be rude or cause offence.
This topic has been rambling on for over 3 months with little, if any progress of achieving the goal of heating the aqua roll, one thing I will point out before I continue, it was mentioned about putting 2 aquarium heaters set at 20c in the aqua to get the water to 40c, well if you put a dozen heaters set at 20 in the Aqua roll you’d still only have water that reached 20, that’s going off my point of writing though, surely caravanning is about enjoying our leisure time in the great outdoors, with the existing shower in most caravans it will give the user at the very least a basic shower or there’s the facilities on site if going to a half decent campsite which will offer from grungy to great showering options, I’m afraid if my time could only be filled by spending 3 months trying to re invent the wheel I think by now I’d have found a more fulfilling hobby that occupies my time, I’m a great believer in each to their own but surely some topics just take up space for the sake of it.

BP

We've got plenty of internet paper and more than enough monitor ink.
Sometimes when you can't find anything positive to add to a thread it's better to avoid adding anything at all.
It's not compulsory for members to read every topic so if you see anything that doesn't interest you it's ok to skip past, we don't mind.

 

[paws]

I find this a very interesting topic, with many excellent and ingenious suggestions.

I'm afraid I'm not up to making calculations of heat loss/gain, flow rates and the like, but how about this suggestion...

Pour a kettle full of hot water into the nearly full aqua roll.....

adjust the temperature required by initially using less or more hot water ( kettle and saucepan of hot water etc) and then enjoy a long lasting hot shower...
Hope this helps, and of course
Happy Caravanning
paws

 

[ProfJohnL]

I find this a very interesting topic, with many excellent and ingenious suggestions.

I'm afraid I'm not up to making calculations of heat loss/gain, flow rates and the like, but how about this suggestion...

Pour a kettle full of hot water into the nearly full aqua roll.....

adjust the temperature required by initially using less or more hot water ( kettle and saucepan of hot water etc) and then enjoy a long lasting hot shower...
Hope this helps, and of course
Happy Caravanning
paws

That's another way, but from a practical point of view adding 1L of boiling water to 40L at 10C will only raise the water by about 2.5C. so to get it to 30C would need about 8L. - It all seems a bit over the top literally as the full water container would indeed over flow.

 

[ericmark]

I did put a spring in a box under the aquarole to drop voltage to 12 volt fridge and stop water freezing. However you don't want water between 20 and 60 degs C, under 20 OK over 60 OK between legionella is a problem. And it kills, not just getting ill, a little heat to stop freezing OK, but in a container heating to under 60 degs, no way. At 60 it stops growing at 70 degs C it is killed so anything storing hot water needs to be 60 degs or more.

 

[Dustydog]

May I suggest the OP fits an on board tank, if he doesn’t have one , and fit a heating unit as described earlier. Fully insulate the tank with appropriate materials. Most on boards are 30 to 40 litres.

 

[Anseo]

Legionella must be part of any consideration for stored warmhot water, consequences relating to inappropriate temperatures can be a lot worse than just being

 

[Hutch]

I did put a spring in a box under the aquarole to drop voltage to 12 volt fridge and stop water freezing.

Sorry Eric, I dont understand this, can you explain more please.