Asda petrol

[Craigyoung]

Just read this on Google about people filling up at ASDA, it used to be £1 taken from your account it's now been upped to £99, if my link works have a read of this....

Asda's £99 petrol pump deposit: The truth

https://search.app.goo.gl/iab8m
Craig

 

[Dustydog]

Just read this on Google about people filling up at ASDA, it used to be £1 taken from your account it's now been upped to £99, if my link works have a read of this....

Asda's £99 petrol pump deposit: The truth

https://search.app.goo.gl/iab8m
Craig

Corporate thieving

 

[otherclive]

It's nit actually taken from the account it's just classed as pending although looking at a ladies app based screenshot I can see how she would be concerned. As soon as you finish filling your card is debited the actual amount and the £99 should disappear. The fault this time is it did not disappear. The system can recognise if you don't have £99 in your account and set a lower limit.

I don't see it as a bad thing if it stops people putting in more than they can afford. But it won't stop those who press the "pay at kiosk" button and then drive off without paying.

Clearly ASDA didn't communicate the trials at all well. So null pointe ASDA.

 

[Dustydog]

It's nit actually taken from the account it's just classed as pending although looking at a ladies app based screenshot I can see how she would be concerned. As soon as you finish filling your card is debited the actual amount and the £99 should disappear. The fault this time is it did not disappear. The system can recognise if you don't have £99 in your account and set a lower limit.

I don't see it as a bad thing if it stops people putting in more than they can afford. But it won't stop those who press the "pay at kiosk" button and then drive off without paying.

Clearly ASDA didn't communicate the trials at all well. So null pointe ASDA.

Clive , apologies if I misread. Isn’t the case there is a time delay on the initial charge then refund and actual charge come days later.

 

[otherclive]

Dusty
It seems that the lady in question looked at her app for MasterCard and saw £99 and the actual £5 that she spent. The £99 took three days to disappear but she understandably thought that she had been billed £99.

My cards rarely show a transaction instantly. Although I don’t use apps fir banking or cards but when I look on the PC I see pending transactions which are visible as amounts but haven’t yet been debited against the card. Also not knowing when the lady made her purchase banks slow down overvweekends as they update software although a bit longer for TSB.

 

[Craigyoung]

So am I reading this correct , it's only if you pay at the pump but if you go and pay at the till with your card it doesn't happen , that's just classed a normal transaction as I have 2 ASDA petrol stations beside me one is pumps only another one that is two mile in the other direction which is pumps but also has a shop with cashiers.

 

[otherclive]

So am I reading this correct , it's only if you pay at the pump but if you go and pay at the till with your card it doesn't happen , that's just classed a normal transaction as I have 2 ASDA petrol stations beside me one is pumps only another one that is two mile in the other direction which is pumps but also has a shop with cashiers.

Yes it’s onky pay at pump transactions but not all ASDA are affected as it’s being trialled/ rolled out.

 

[VicMallows]

Well, it's better than many of the pay-at-pump systems in Spain. Commonly you have to pre-select the amount you want in Euros. In some cases this amount is actually charged, and if you select more than will fit in your tank ....tough luck! Unfortunately it is always the cheapest filling stations which use pay-at-pump, and it is frustrating to not be able to fill the tank when the opportunity arises ......there can be 20cents/litre difference to the major brand filling stations.

The most bizarre system I came across had just one payment station at which you not only have to select the amount, but also the particular pump/nozzle you want to use. Get it wrong and you can end up with the wrong pump or the wrong fuel hmy:

 

[ProfJohnL]

It seems to be that the £99 may be marked as pending, but it reduces the available balance or credit available on that account, and that can prevent subsequent transactions that check the available funds before allowing a transaction.

The problem is the unused balance of the £99 is delayed in being re credited to the account. In theory it should be possible for it to be instant when the fuel delivery is finished. Whether that is a failing on the part of the supermarket or the supermarkets bank or even the customers bank is unclear.

It always amazes me that my bank can withdraw funds from my account instantly, but it can take anything from minutes to days for the funds to appear in the recipients account. I have asked them why, and apparently it's to stop money laundering!

 

[colin-yorkshire]

storm in a tea cup gentlemen. this has been how it works for years just no one has noticed.
some supermarket fuel stations are either unmanned so no payment at kiosk or they are not manned 24/7 so are designated "pay at the pump" in order for the fuel to be dispensed. the customers card has to be read first before any fuel is dispensed from the pump so in effect the possible maximum delivery is debited pending [usually £99]
until the true amount of fuel taken is known that is the amount debited from the card in the end.
this is only at pay at the pumps stations because obviously at any other you get the fuel first then pay after.
the figure of £99 is not new. if you have ever filled up at one of these stations. you will see after entering the pin is " TAKE FUEL MAXIMUM £99] then the pump starts. this is where the debit is pending until the pump is shut off. it is not new our local station has done this for years.
the issue is the banking system. there used to be a delay in any card transaction. from seller to your account so the £99 pending never showed up on the statment. as the time delay from reading the card to debiting the fuel cost was so small.
but now we have instant banking where there is no delay in transactions so it shows as a debited ammount in the period before the fuel is taken the new system being trialed is to combat credit fraud. so holds onto the payment pending for longer if this is over the weekend it can reduce the spending on the card for all other debits pending for the same period.
this is where the issue has arisen. you want to avoid it SIMPLE go to another fuel station that has an attendant in the kiosk.

.

 

[Parksy]

The £99 'reserve fee' had been trialled at some Asda automated filling stations for customers using Visa or MasterCard.
The theory was that the £99 would not be reserved after the fuel had been dispensed, just the amount for the fuel taken was supposed to be deducted from accounts.
The problems have arisen because it can take up to three days for an account to be debited with the correct amount, so the £99 was held in reserve until the correct amount had been debited. This meant that in this example that I have given a person who only wanted say, £30 worth of fuel would be denied access to an extra £66 of their own money until the price of their fuel had been debited, not great for families on low incomes or for people on benefits.
Apparently Asda have now suspended the trials after customer complaints.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Colin,

Presently not all, but an increasing number of fuel outlets are going this way, and if you are looking for fuel over night, some times pre read card pumps are the only way available in some areas after 10pm at night.

The method and the sum as you say has been around for some time, Whilst I agree instant payment is available,
from what I gather in the news story is that instant refund is not occurring, so the available balance left in an account is £99 down regardless of how little fuel you actually take, and for some that can cause problems with subsequent transactions closely following the fuel delivery.

I know of some people who have to manage their fiances very carefully, (e.g. students, pensioners of families on income support) and for example will work out quite accurately what their expenditure will be and will transfer money into a specific household account so they can't be tempted to over spend. If they have to use a card payment fuel pump (or any other service using this scheme) which swallows up £99 it may not leave enough in the account for food shopping.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hello John.
yes this can cause an issue but there is a wider problem with chip and pin cards. anyone who has been in retail handling customers cards will know of the issues in card payment.
the main one being card retention in the event of a miss transaction and the very fact you have to have the debited amount entered on the machine BEFORE the card is read and the pin [or contactless] information entered after the card information is then relayed to the customers account holder for verification before the transaction has been completed. we all do it every day with out thinking because it is automatic.

BUT in the case of the self service fuel pump. the details are entered first. without there being a charged amount for the fuel that has not been taken yet. typically the send amount has been £1 minimum with account details held in the machine until the true value of the fuel taken has been established.

in almost all cases this will be more than £1 so the sent ammount never appears to have happened but it did.
the change although subtle is to change the ammount of the sent ammount to the value of the maximum fuel spend [£99] in any transaction. to make sure customers cannot get more fuel than they can pay for or criminals using stolen cards cannot use them to make multiple purchases from the same outlet.
when automatic self service was first trialled the card was retained by the machine until the cost of fuel was debited and the card returned but this caused issues of retained cards when a transaction was aborted.
so the new system was established and worked very well but fuel theft costs the industry millions every year as it is hard to recover the lost revenue.
the trial was to try and stop some of it happening a glitch in the system caused refunds to be delayed but in most cases this is due to the card issuer and bank providers systems.
refunds always take longer to do than purchases if you have ever noticed. this is why.
I bought something from B&Q on a saturday. this was wrong so took it back the same afternoon. got a refund and bought something else. on the statement both purchases were debited on the saturday. but the refund didn't go back in until the tuesday after. so I was down by the refund ammount for 4 days.
these things happen it's no big deal for most of us if the card payment system doesn't suit due to low funds I would suggest one uses cash. as you know how much you have to spend then. sorry for playing devils advocate but this is a natural problem of the cashless society we live in. cards are not a substitute for real money.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Colin,
The key to all of this, and whether it will work properly is the ability of the banks to provide instant refunds on such transactions.

The information so far available has not answered another possible concern, and that is, when using a credit card or a debit card is, if the system earmarks £99 for the transaction, does that sum get treated as a withdrawal and incur interest on CCs? Or in the case of debit cards, if a customer has funds in an account of £50, but with an overdraft facility of £500. The fuel seller earmarks £99 theoretically taking the account into an overdraft situation, but the actual transaction is only £45. Does the customer incur overdraft charges, even though they have acted sensibly?

Also where there are insufficient funds in an account for the system to earmark £99 for the transaction, it should offer the user the chance to enter a maximum value not exceeding the available funds, and automatically stop the delivery if when the available fund by as been used up.

I don't know the answers, Do you?

 

[otherclive]

Hello Colin,
The key to all of this, and whether it will work properly is the ability of the banks to provide instant refunds on such transactions.

The information so far available has not answered another possible concern, and that is, when using a credit card or a debit card is, if the system earmarks £99 for the transaction, does that sum get treated as a withdrawal and incur interest on CCs? Or in the case of debit cards, if a customer has funds in an account of £50, but with an overdraft facility of £500. The fuel seller earmarks £99 theoretically taking the account into an overdraft situation, but the actual transaction is only £45. Does the customer incur overdraft charges, even though they have acted sensibly?

Also where there are insufficient funds in an account for the system to earmark £99 for the transaction, it should offer the user the chance to enter a maximum value not exceeding the available funds, and automatically stop the delivery if when the available fund by as been used up.

I don't know the answers, Do you?

The system as described by the BBC will not give £99 limit if you only have £40 in the account. But as far as overdraft or interest is concerned I cant see that either should be problem as money isn't actually taken from the card it is in the pending category. However your and others are all valid concerns and clearly the supermarkets and others have not done sufficient homework and communication to reassure the end users. But Ive been using such a system for restaurant tabs, French fuel and UK out of hours fuel and never had any untoward debits. But I do understand the concerns of those who are on a tight budget. So come on ASDA Mastercard et al do your homework.

 

[Parksy]

As I mentioned previously, Asda have decided to suspend the £99 'deposit charge' so it's a non issue really.

 

[Raywood]

I assume that as it is suspended then it will come back later but hopefully it will have been sorted by then. As ASDA is about the only fuel retailer I do not use locally due to it not being anywhere I pass, I have no experience of it but the site nearest us is auto only so if you use that you have no choice as to how to pay.

 

[otherclive]

ASDA only trialled this a three fuel stations and as Parksy says it was suspended by early yesterday anyway. It's a bit of a media over reaction again as the concept is not new in UK or Europe.

 

[Dustydog]

No wonder Europe laugh at us. We are so risk averse to any changes

 

[VicMallows]

I simply wish more filling stations had pay-at-pump .... and the Asda ones (at least the ones I have used) are the most straightforward to use I have come across.

The large and busy Shell station nearest to me has been fully re-furbished twice within the last 5 years, but still doesn't offer any pay-at-pump .......they WANT you to go into the shop, and preferably have to queue, in the hope that you will purchase things at their high prices. They then, without fail, ask you if you want to buy sweets, or whatever the promotion that day is.

 

[otherclive]

I simply wish more filling stations had pay-at-pump .... and the Asda ones (at least the ones I have used) are the most straightforward to use I have come across.

The large and busy Shell station nearest to me has been fully re-furbished twice within the last 5 years, but still doesn't offer any pay-at-pump .......they WANT you to go into the shop, and preferably have to queue, in the hope that you will purchase things at their high prices. They then, without fail, ask you if you want to buy sweets, or whatever the promotion that day is.

You can pay at Shell using an app and QR scan. How that reconciles with the signs adorning the pump which tell you no mobiles beats me
as the power output of a mobile is minuscule compared to those in use 20 years ago.

Edit. QR scan not required if phone can identify location of garage. So all actions via app sitting in car, except for fuelling itself. Shell station I use near Leicester has attended service.

 

[bertieboy1]

Someones not reading the screen correctly,our local ASDA with a petrol station is unmanned and takes credit/debit card only.Before the pump operatesThe machine reads the card and must check what the balance is because the next message says you can fill up to the limit of £99.
The receipt tells you what will be debited from your account.

 

[Craigyoung]

Someones not reading the screen correctly,our local ASDA with a petrol station is unmanned and takes credit/debit card only.Before the pump operatesThe machine reads the card and must check what the balance is because the next message says you can fill up to the limit of £99.
The receipt tells you what will be debited from your account.

This thread was started by me a while ago , if you had read the article first you will see that it was actually happening somewhere in the country ! That's why I brought it to people's attention ; not that I read the screen wrong .

 

[Dustydog]

Someones not reading the screen correctly,our local ASDA with a petrol station is unmanned and takes credit/debit card only.Before the pump operatesThe machine reads the card and must check what the balance is because the next message says you can fill up to the limit of £99.
The receipt tells you what will be debited from your account.

This thread was started by me a while ago , if you had read the article first you will see that it was actually happening somewhere in the country ! That's why I brought it to people's attention ; not that I read the screen wrong .

This issue was an ASDA problem that was quickly remedied for obvious reasons.
I suspect Bertie has been to ASDA and everything , now, is as it should be.
A good first call. A quick resolution. All happy :cheer:

 

[FrintonMike]

Our local Asda has both pay at pump and pay at shop.
My card has stopped working at the pump and the pump says card not authorised but it works in the shop. It used to work at the pump but has not worked at he pump since they changed the system even though there is always more than £99 in the account
I now fill up and pay at the shop