Damian
Moderator
No, there is nothing "more than meets the eye" about my daughters situation, and as for an apology,,forget it.
It was a case of "our computer is always right,,you are wrong"
It was a case of "our computer is always right,,you are wrong"
One of the difficulties with the US system applied to the UK, is the high number, about 60%, of cars up to 3 years old which are operated by businesses under group insurance policies with no reference to specific vehicles.
I always smile, cynically, at differences in Irish regulations - one of the few countries in the EC not to require fitment of 56mph limiters to HGVs, whose drivers ignore other countries speed limits and can't be dealt with even by ANPR.
I always smile, cynically, at differences in Irish regulations - one of the few countries in the EC not to require fitment of 56mph limiters to HGVs, whose drivers ignore other countries speed limits and can't be dealt with even by ANPR.
I work for Grampian Police and when Traffic Officers stop a vehicle for whatever reason, they ask the control room for a PNC, which is a direct link to DVLA.
After giving the registation number they are given details of the registered keeper, whether the vehicle has insurance and if over three years old if it has MOT.
They can also get details of drivers licence.
In our area if a vehicle is stopped and found to have no insurance it is immediately impounded and is not returned until driver can supply insurance details.
After giving the registation number they are given details of the registered keeper, whether the vehicle has insurance and if over three years old if it has MOT.
They can also get details of drivers licence.
In our area if a vehicle is stopped and found to have no insurance it is immediately impounded and is not returned until driver can supply insurance details.
Avoid Grampian police area - computer data taken as gospel, despite the well proven GIGO - Garbage in, garbage out.
Maybe so, but you have to start somewhere. There are too many chancers who would say "Trust me officer, I have insurance" if they thought they could get away with it. In the grand scheme of things, the number of errors will be minimal.
Damian
Moderator
Malcolm, whilst I have some agreement with your statement, I hope you still feel the same about being one of the "minimal" numbers should it happen to you, that your car is impounded by the say so of a computer.
As we all know, the Government agencies are absolutely rock solid on data security,,,,,,,,,NOT.
As we all know, the Government agencies are absolutely rock solid on data security,,,,,,,,,NOT.
Damien, I appreciate what you say but I tend to carry a copy of my insurance certificate in the car. I have also checked it on www.askmid.com and the correct info was shown so I am reasonably happy.
I do understand what you say about government database security.....not good, is it?!
I do understand what you say about government database security.....not good, is it?!
Bob T said "I work for Grampian Police and when Traffic Officers stop a vehicle for whatever reason, they ask the control room for a PNC, which is a direct link to DVLA.
After giving the registation number they are given details of the registered keeper, whether the vehicle has insurance and if over three years old if it has MOT.
They can also get details of drivers licence.
In our area if a vehicle is stopped and found to have no insurance it is immediately impounded and is not returned until driver can supply insurance details".
Bob, if the driver has a valid insurance certificate with him covering the vehicle would that have any effect on your decision to impound the vehicle on the say so of the computer or would you make further checks even if an unsociable hour? Many thanks, Ray
After giving the registation number they are given details of the registered keeper, whether the vehicle has insurance and if over three years old if it has MOT.
They can also get details of drivers licence.
In our area if a vehicle is stopped and found to have no insurance it is immediately impounded and is not returned until driver can supply insurance details".
Bob, if the driver has a valid insurance certificate with him covering the vehicle would that have any effect on your decision to impound the vehicle on the say so of the computer or would you make further checks even if an unsociable hour? Many thanks, Ray
Ray (c)
When the insurance company is giving you your insurance policy they automatically send a copy to DVLA at the same time.
Therefore if the driver has a copy of his insurance with him, there is also a copy at DVLA.
It works the same with an MOT. They are all electronically operated now and details go to DVLA at the same time you get your copy.
When the insurance company is giving you your insurance policy they automatically send a copy to DVLA at the same time.
Therefore if the driver has a copy of his insurance with him, there is also a copy at DVLA.
It works the same with an MOT. They are all electronically operated now and details go to DVLA at the same time you get your copy.
Bob T - there is a delay of weeks for private motorists and months for company drivers in updating the MID - that's where the problem lies for legitimate motorists - unlike the computerised MOT which is instant IF the system is working.
The problem is that the police don't appear to understand the limitations of computers.
The problem is that the police don't appear to understand the limitations of computers.
Damian
Moderator
Quote
When the insurance company is giving you your insurance policy they automatically send a copy to DVLA at the same time.
Therefore if the driver has a copy of his insurance with him, there is also a copy at DVLA.
Thats how its "supposed" to work, in practice it does not always happen, as my daughter found out.
When the insurance company is giving you your insurance policy they automatically send a copy to DVLA at the same time.
Therefore if the driver has a copy of his insurance with him, there is also a copy at DVLA.
Thats how its "supposed" to work, in practice it does not always happen, as my daughter found out.
Found this on a web sitedealing with Gatso ANPR systems:
"The new offence of keeping a vehicle without insurance criminalises the previously harmless pastime of keeping an uninsured vehicle in a garage and not driving it, and comes on top of the previous breakthrough of criminalising keeping an untaxed vehicle in a garage and not driving it. The latter was dealt with by requiring owners to register the vehicle as off the road via a Statutory Off-Road Notification. The administrative convenience of turning not doing anything wrong into a crime will allow the Government to issue fixed penalty notices for failing to renew insurance on time, while there's also now a fixed penalty for late renewal of tax discs (previously, you could pay in arrears). In both cases the penalties are clearly only going to hit people who've previously been registered with the system. Dealing with the large numbers of entirely unregistered and uninsured vehicles will require real-time alerts and pursuit, and these vehicles will have to be differentiated from the many foreign registered cars on the UK's roads. As it will be a lot easier and cheaper to fine the law-abiding but forgetful than it will be to deal with the hardline serial offenders, we think we can guess which way this one will go.
"The new offence of keeping a vehicle without insurance criminalises the previously harmless pastime of keeping an uninsured vehicle in a garage and not driving it, and comes on top of the previous breakthrough of criminalising keeping an untaxed vehicle in a garage and not driving it. The latter was dealt with by requiring owners to register the vehicle as off the road via a Statutory Off-Road Notification. The administrative convenience of turning not doing anything wrong into a crime will allow the Government to issue fixed penalty notices for failing to renew insurance on time, while there's also now a fixed penalty for late renewal of tax discs (previously, you could pay in arrears). In both cases the penalties are clearly only going to hit people who've previously been registered with the system. Dealing with the large numbers of entirely unregistered and uninsured vehicles will require real-time alerts and pursuit, and these vehicles will have to be differentiated from the many foreign registered cars on the UK's roads. As it will be a lot easier and cheaper to fine the law-abiding but forgetful than it will be to deal with the hardline serial offenders, we think we can guess which way this one will go.
Hi Everyone,
Do be very careful about using askmid.com website I enquired about my friends car and promptly got a phone call from the local police giving a warning and a wrap over the knuckles, the officer went on to say that the data protection people were looking into the use of the site by whoever.Jim
Do be very careful about using askmid.com website I enquired about my friends car and promptly got a phone call from the local police giving a warning and a wrap over the knuckles, the officer went on to say that the data protection people were looking into the use of the site by whoever.Jim
I have recently changed insurance companies on one of my cars when the renewal was due. The cetrifacate was sent out to me by the old company along with the renewal notice on the assumption I would renew, and when I phoned to tell them that I was not renewing with them there was no request from then to return the certificate. I did obviously arrange cover elsewhere but if I had been so mindful, from what some of you are saying, I needn't have bothered as, if I had been stopped, by the police I would have been able to privide "proof" of insurance, even though there was no insurance.
On a similar note, I used to be an insurance agent, and had on several occations suspitions that clients would insure a car to get road tax and then cancell the insurance and get a partial refund.
Terry
On a similar note, I used to be an insurance agent, and had on several occations suspitions that clients would insure a car to get road tax and then cancell the insurance and get a partial refund.
Terry
My insurance covers me to drive another car third party.
If I am driving a car with no insurance eg driving it home for some one having just bought it at auction, where does that stand legally.
If I am driving a car with no insurance eg driving it home for some one having just bought it at auction, where does that stand legally.
Graham, you would right in the soup.
To drive another persons car wether it is a friends car or a car aquired from auction or garage that is not registered with DVLA as belonging with you, is illegal if that vehicle has no current insurance registered to it.
All your own policy does is give you basic third party cover to drive a vehicle not owned or insured by you.
A collegue at my works has just lost his license that way. His insurance covered him to drive other vehicles on third party. However he had 3 points for speeding. Then when he drove his mates car home from the pub thinking he was doing him a favor, he was stopped and prosecutted for driving an uninsured vehicle. What his "mate" had not said was that the car wasn't insured in the first place.
Now my mate has had his license revoked and will have to sit another driving test before he can drive again. A very expensive lesson learned there as he relied on a car for transport and even a pleading letter from his boss didn't cut the mustard.
Be very, very carefull when using your insurance to cover you in other vehicles.
I've said it before about road tax and insurance, in my eyes, they should put the cost of basic insurance and road tax onto fuel. That way everyone would be paying as they drove and the hundreds of thousands of tax dodging and insurance dodggers would be forced to cough up. In fact, it wouldn't suprise me if the reduction in uninsured losses and increased tax revenue didn't balance the books.
Steve L.
To drive another persons car wether it is a friends car or a car aquired from auction or garage that is not registered with DVLA as belonging with you, is illegal if that vehicle has no current insurance registered to it.
All your own policy does is give you basic third party cover to drive a vehicle not owned or insured by you.
A collegue at my works has just lost his license that way. His insurance covered him to drive other vehicles on third party. However he had 3 points for speeding. Then when he drove his mates car home from the pub thinking he was doing him a favor, he was stopped and prosecutted for driving an uninsured vehicle. What his "mate" had not said was that the car wasn't insured in the first place.
Now my mate has had his license revoked and will have to sit another driving test before he can drive again. A very expensive lesson learned there as he relied on a car for transport and even a pleading letter from his boss didn't cut the mustard.
Be very, very carefull when using your insurance to cover you in other vehicles.
I've said it before about road tax and insurance, in my eyes, they should put the cost of basic insurance and road tax onto fuel. That way everyone would be paying as they drove and the hundreds of thousands of tax dodging and insurance dodggers would be forced to cough up. In fact, it wouldn't suprise me if the reduction in uninsured losses and increased tax revenue didn't balance the books.
Steve L.
I think they have already added the cost of insurance and road tax to fuel(tongue in cheek) just forget to remove the nessessity to continue paying them seperately so we now pay twice.
Terry
Steve
That was purley hypothetical about driving another car, just out of interest.
I am totally in favour of your comment abut road tax in with fuel prices, then those that do the milage pay for it.
In my own case I have a 4x4 & pay around
That was purley hypothetical about driving another car, just out of interest.
I am totally in favour of your comment abut road tax in with fuel prices, then those that do the milage pay for it.
In my own case I have a 4x4 & pay around
Quite agree Terry.
The honest motorist is well and truly "ripped off"!!!!!!!
I heard that petrol in the year to date has gone up by 16% but the funny thing is that the whitehall whitewash still bang on about "underlying inflation" being under control.
I would suggest only one word in their comment is true "lying"
Steve L.
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