awning heaters

[otherclive]

but Rick Jolly was ace.

Yes he was, and he cared very well for a lot of my mates.

I dont know if you will know this fact, but it is true that nobody that made it back to his care died. A very proud boast for an incomparable surgeon.

Yes I did know. He passed away last year only aged 71 years old.

 

[ProfJohnL]

A dram

Egad, surely the man cannot mean JUST ONE! :dry:

Getting back to the Thread, A few years ago there was a birthday party, during the winter months. I took along an oil filled radiator, Wow it was fantastic, really toasty for 4 people and three dogs.

A good idea, the only downside is possibly the weight of your tight on payloads

 

[Grey13]

I am mentioning this because gas and combustion gasses in caravans, boats and at home can be lethal. Warnings about combustion gasses are valid, even perhaps in a tightly sealed awning, however from my observations the majority are easily well enough ventilated.

On a more serious note, people die from time to time in their caravans, boats etc and fairly regularly somewhere in the UK a WHOLE HOUSE literally disappears from a street leaving a pile of rubble due to natural gas explosions.

Parksy wrote

By the way, I Googled 'chemical formula of carbon monoxide' for you and Wikipedia provided the following: 'Carbon monoxide is a compound of carbon and oxygen in which the ratio of the two elements is one atom of carbon to one atom of oxygen. Its formula is CO. Carbon monoxide is a colourless,, odourless tasteless, poisonous gas. Most people have heard about carbon monoxide because of its toxic effects'

On that score, I am probably one of the few vans that have both smoke and CO alarms fitted.

I also have a "natural gas" alarm fitted in my house. When I started researching "natural gas" the knowledge of just what compound natural gas is was freighting, even the companies involved in the supply chain did not know what the compound of natural gas was. (I did not try and talk to the gas company chemical engineers buried deep in the companies but all front line staff dealing with the public did not know.) My local fire department was equally uninformed. In truth it is in the main "methane" mixed with a small % of other gasses. A gas leak in a kitchen overnight can fill enough gas so that in the morning a light switch spark or other flame will ignite it and boom, the whole house disappears. A gas detector such as the Mercury Gas Detector Alarm only costs £16.00 and can save all lives in a home.

I will hasten to add that in this post I refrain from any comment regarding the opinions in this thread, IMO enough has been said regarding that already.

For those interested - Methane gas chemical compound is CH4

In the old days between WW1 and WW2 when fuel was scarce, people on farms would drive trucks with gas from a wood burner on the back.

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-cars.html

 

[Thingy]

We have both Smoke and CO alarm in the caravan, and the same at home, but

A gas detector such as the Mercury Gas Detector Alarm only costs £16.00

sounds like a very good idea, and at £16 a chuck, well, whats that compared to a life. Good call.

 

[otherclive]

I am mentioning this because gas and combustion gasses in caravans, boats and at home can be lethal. Warnings about combustion gasses are valid, even perhaps in a tightly sealed awning, however from my observations the majority are easily well enough ventilated.

On a more serious note, people die from time to time in their caravans, boats etc and fairly regularly somewhere in the UK a WHOLE HOUSE literally disappears from a street leaving a pile of rubble due to natural gas explosions.

Parksy wrote

By the way, I Googled 'chemical formula of carbon monoxide' for you and Wikipedia provided the following: 'Carbon monoxide is a compound of carbon and oxygen in which the ratio of the two elements is one atom of carbon to one atom of oxygen. Its formula is CO. Carbon monoxide is a colourless,, odourless tasteless, poisonous gas. Most people have heard about carbon monoxide because of its toxic effects'

On that score, I am probably one of the few vans that have both smoke and CO alarms fitted.

I also have a "natural gas" alarm fitted in my house. When I started researching "natural gas" the knowledge of just what compound natural gas is was freighting, even the companies involved in the supply chain did not know what the compound of natural gas was. (I did not try and talk to the gas company chemical engineers buried deep in the companies but all front line staff dealing with the public did not know.) My local fire department was equally uninformed. In truth it is in the main "methane" mixed with a small % of other gasses. A gas leak in a kitchen overnight can fill enough gas so that in the morning a light switch spark or other flame will ignite it and boom, the whole house disappears. A gas detector such as the Mercury Gas Detector Alarm only costs £16.00 and can save all lives in a home.

I will hasten to add that in this post I refrain from any comment regarding the opinions in this thread, IMO enough has been said regarding that already.

For those interested - Methane gas chemical compound is CH4

In the old days between WW1 and WW2 when fuel was scarce, people on farms would drive trucks with gas from a wood burner on the back.

]https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-cars.html

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-cars.html[/quote
Why do you think you are one of the few that have Smoke and CO detectors. Even before electronic CO detectors became available at reasonable prices we used chemical papers that changed colour in the presence of CO. Don’t all modern vans come with two detectors?

The domestic gas monitor is a good idea. Some years back our gas cooker was left overnight with its hob lid raised. One of the dogs must have leant up to see if there was any food on the hob. In doing so it had turned a control valve on letting gas to the hob ring. My wife smelt the gas when she came down stairs the following morning. Fortunately there wasn’t an accident.

 

[Gafferbill]

........All caravans must have numerous gas drain holes strategically placed in the floor to alow any escaping gas to decipitate so as to prevent any dangerous buildup.
LPG used in caravans is heavier than air .... escaped gas will act like water and drain through these holes to the outside.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I am mentioning this because gas and combustigiven the on gasses in caravans, boats and at home can be lethal. Warnings about combustion gasses are valid, even perhaps in a tightly sealed awning, however from my observations the majority are easily well enough ventilated.

Hello Grey,

I'm glad the topic has retuned to the salient issue.

I do accept that many awnings are usually well ventilated but mainly at low level around the wheel arches etc, but given the conditions when someone might desire some extra heat in the awning, the upper levels will be usually zipped up quite tight. After all you wouldn't want all the heat to escape.

But crucially whilst you think the majority are well ventilated, that means there must be some that are not, and in reality for the reason mentioned above probably more are quite tight when it comes to the subject in hand.

Products of combustion tend to be lighter than normal atmosphere, so they tend to rise, and that coupled to a zipped up awning has the potential to collect high concentrations of fumes from any open flamed device.

Ventilation at the bottom will allow cold air to enter, but as it is cold, the warmer fume filled air will tend to float above it and will not always be properly circulated and exchanged.

Just to illustrate how important this issue is taken, Caravan construction regulations set out a formula for determining the area of fixed ventilation inside a caravan, and that has to be shared between low level and high level this allows proper circulation of warm buoyant gasses out. Bear in mind that this is inside the caravan where long term use of open flamed appliances (e.g. the cooker) will be limited to relatively short times. All other gas appliances are room sealed and will discharge their fumes outside.

So there is a real danger from using open flame products in awnings. That's why I and others who are involved with combustion products would never suggest the use of open flamed devices inside an awning. And why awning manufactures probably include a similar warning in their instructions.

The logic that some contributors use where they say they have done something for years without a problem may be quite true, but it is not a universally safe approach and should not be suggested as an acceptable thing to do especially where inexperienced readers might take it as a safe thing to do.