Bailey S5 Rear Light Earthing

[otherclive]

Last time out I had a problem with the nearside rear fog light on the 2005 S5 Pageant. So today I went over to the van expecting to have to change a bulb. I took out the nearside Hella unit and checked the bulb and found no fault with its filament. So I decied to take all the bulbs out and clean the bulb terminals and also the terminals/connectors too. When I removed the complete Hella fitting I noticed that a group of white earth wires were all connected together but were not connected to the metal bulb holder. Looking at the earth terminals on the metal bulb holder there were no signs on any terminal that the earth wires had been connected. So I decided to connect the earth wires to the metal bulb holder and I replaced the assembly. I then checked out the offside unit which had been all cleaned up and greased last summer when a bulb blew. On the offside bulb holder the white group of earth wires were connected to the metal bulb holder.
I could not test the lights as the car I was using has no tow bar electrics. Is it normal to have only one of the two rear light assemblies positively connected to earth on the metal bulb holder, and is earthing both likely likely to cause any problems ?

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Clive
The majority of lighting problems on a caravan emanate from a poor earth. IMO you can never have too many earth points so yes , earth both light units.
As an aside you will be aware I'm sure of the 12S pin burn out because of the fridge. I did the following mod on my Pageant Vendee and our current Wyoming. Obviously the car socket is similarly modified.
http://www.towitall.co.uk/faq/1.aspx

 

[xtrailman]

Its not called earth, Its a negative, or return strictly speaking, as its a 12v DC circuit.
Al you need to ensure is the light has a positive and negative supply.
As the caravan is largely non conductive, caravans are two wire systems, the white wire generally is the return or negative.
Earthing metal work is generally associated with mains voltage systems, not low voltage systems.

The car is slightly different in that the cars chassis is the return, as it usually has only short links to lighting clusters etc to enable a return, from the cars chassis.

 

[xtrailman]

Sorry slow connection.

 

[RogerL]

Its not called earth, Its a negative, or return strictly speaking, as its a 12v DC circuit.
Al you need to ensure is the light has a positive and negative supply.
As the caravan is largely non conductive, caravans are two wire systems, the white wire generally is the return or negative.
Earthing metal work is generally associated with mains voltage systems, not low voltage systems.

The car is slightly different in that the cars chassis is the return, as it usually has only short links to lighting clusters etc to enable a return, from the cars chassis.

Is there any confusion? Every electrician, both professional and amateur, knows that earth, return and negative all mean the same thing on low voltage DC wiring - and indeed that they mean very different things on AC wiring.

 

[otherclive]

Thanks for the electric lessons, my S5 handbook shows the return with the earth symbol so I guess all facets are still correct. The van is 13 pin DIN plug as I had it converted to obviate the fridge pin issues and having to avoid adding extra wiring to ensurre a good return/earth path. Best £50 I ever spent as the 13 pin DIN plug is far easier to connect and disconnect when the car's socket is low down.

Thanks again

 

[xtrailman]

I don't know any amateur electricians, only professional.
And yes we do know that earth isn't the same as return or negative.
Which is why i made the point.
ELV requires no connection to earth.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

It amazes me that the negative on the caravan road lights on our last caravan Bailey and present Swift seems to be the same gauge wire as the +ve feed to the the lights so that the return is having to take the same load as several feeds

 

[Dustydog]

It amazes me that the negative on the caravan road lights on our last caravan Bailey and present Swift seems to be the same gauge wire as the +ve feed to the the lights so that the return is having to take the same load as several feeds

And for this very reason I like to check all the rear lights at the same time before departure.
Side lights plus brake lights plus fogs and then indicator hazzards. If there is anything wrong or weak on the earth return this will show it up.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

I was having noises from the relays in the car boot (Ford Can bus to road lights etc))
They increased the more load on the wiring
If I had the road lights on and braked the noise was apparent
This happened with both the Bailey and Swift
Uprating the earth/negative return to the rear lights on both caravans cured it
Its not unusual to see road lights on trailers/caravans dimming in unison with the flashers due to bad connections or inadequate wiring?
I've been told that there is a mod for road light seals on Swift Challengers at the moment

 

[TonyG]

I was having noises from the relays in the car boot (Ford Can bus to road lights etc))
They increased the more load on the wiring
If I had the road lights on and braked the noise was apparent
This happened with both the Bailey and Swift
Uprating the earth/negative return to the rear lights on both caravans cured it
Its not unusual to see road lights on trailers/caravans dimming in unison with the flashers due to bad connections or inadequate wiring?
I've been told that there is a mod for road light seals on Swift Challengers at the moment

Hi John it's not only challengers, i've got my new ones on order

2011/12 Conqueror / Challenger / Eccles / Elite Caravan Rear Lights

• Ash DhirCaravan General
• Send MessageView Discussions

An issue has been raised by some customers with 2011 & 2012 Conqueror / Challenger / Eccles / Elite caravans, whereby water can accumulate within the lens of the rear light clusters. Jokon, our light supplier and The Swift Group have undertaken significant amounts of testing over the last few months to determine the cause of this water accumulation and to find a retro-fitable solution for the few customers who have experienced this problem.

There are a number of contributing factors to the cause of this issue, which when combined can lead to water ingress into the sealed unit through the lower breather hole at the rear of the light. It is important to note that this issue only affects a few customers and not every caravan produced will be affected and it is also important to note that water cannot enter the caravan structure because of this issue.

The solution is to fit a new modified light cluster to the caravans affected and all production caravans now being built have this solution in place.

All Swift Group Dealers have been bulletined about this issue in October 2011 and November 2011 and stocks of these new light clusters have now been received at Swift for customer requirements. All current orders for light clusters have been changed to this new modified light cluster (Swift Part Numbers : 9829670 & 9829671). This new modified light cluster will be fitted to caravans affected FOC under warranty.

We would like to apologise to our Customers for this issue.

 

[Dustydog]

I was having noises from the relays in the car boot (Ford Can bus to road lights etc))
They increased the more load on the wiring
If I had the road lights on and braked the noise was apparent
This happened with both the Bailey and Swift
Uprating the earth/negative return to the rear lights on both caravans cured it
Its not unusual to see road lights on trailers/caravans dimming in unison with the flashers due to bad connections or inadequate wiring?
I've been told that there is a mod for road light seals on Swift Challengers at the moment

Hi John it's not only challengers, i've got my new ones on order

2011/12 Conqueror / Challenger / Eccles / Elite Caravan Rear Lights

• Ash DhirCaravan General
• Send MessageView Discussions

An issue has been raised by some customers with 2011 & 2012 Conqueror / Challenger / Eccles / Elite caravans, whereby water can accumulate within the lens of the rear light clusters. Jokon, our light supplier and The Swift Group have undertaken significant amounts of testing over the last few months to determine the cause of this water accumulation and to find a retro-fitable solution for the few customers who have experienced this problem.

There are a number of contributing factors to the cause of this issue, which when combined can lead to water ingress into the sealed unit through the lower breather hole at the rear of the light. It is important to note that this issue only affects a few customers and not every caravan produced will be affected and it is also important to note that water cannot enter the caravan structure because of this issue.

The solution is to fit a new modified light cluster to the caravans affected and all production caravans now being built have this solution in place.

All Swift Group Dealers have been bulletined about this issue in October 2011 and November 2011 and stocks of these new light clusters have now been received at Swift for customer requirements. All current orders for light clusters have been changed to this new modified light cluster (Swift Part Numbers : 9829670 & 9829671). This new modified light cluster will be fitted to caravans affected FOC under warranty.

We would like to apologise to our Customers for this issue.

This bugs me. There is clearly a design defect in the light unit. How do you know when you have experienced " a number of contributing factors...."
Come on. If they've modified the original then something was wrong and everyone should be offered a replacement?????

 

[RogerL]

The road light earth return cable to/from the 12N or 13-pin plug/socket "should" be 2.5mm2 and rated at 25 amps - which will handle 300w at the nominal 12v - but many cables make do with a 1.5mm2 earth return which can only handle 180w.
Now if you happen to stop in night-time fog, put your hazard flashers on and engage reverse gear, for a caravan with conventional filament bulbs, the total load in watts is:-
12 - 2x6w front side lights
24 - 4x 6w tail lamps and high level markers
12 - 2x 6w number plate lamps
84 - 2x brake lights + 2x high level lights
42 - 2x indicator lamps
21 - 1x fog lamp (but might be 2 on some models)
21 - 1x reversing lamp (but might be 2 on some models)
----
216w so the lights dim to reduce the load !!

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Hi Roger
It may be 2.5m from the car to the caravan but on my Bailey and Swift the cable to the rear lights on the caravan was/is not that heavy

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Hi Tony
I agree with your sentiments and wonder how a supplier such as Jocun could supply a manufacturer such as Swift with a substandard item and how such a manufacturer could fit them --in an ideal world but then its caravans
My parts are on order as I found when I rang yesterday to confess smashing the top of the fire !!
Are you in danger of impeachment in revealing the Swifttalk secrets?
You have to be enrolled now to view anything on the website
This is a mistake I think because it deters interested possible new customers from checking "facts" when considering a purchase

I collected my rear lights and fire top today

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Sorry for digressing from the original topic but its still rear lights !
Here is a pic of the old and new Swift rear lights
Its a left and a right to make for easy comparison
There is an extra strip of white sponge along the top edge and small O rings are provided to go under the screw heads
The newer one is the one below and the change in colour is down to the way the light is catching it more than anything