Bailey Senator Arizona, Cheeky Delers, is it me or them?

Mar 14, 2005
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Hi all, your help with any of the following would be much appreciated regarding our 2007 Bailey Senator Arizona.

From Day one we have had a very strong taste of chlorine in the water supply to the caravan, so bad that any water for cleaning teeth, drink making etc is done by using bottled water, problem No2, use the shower it starts of fine then the pressure reduces, you can actually see the spray shorten in length, turn it off while you use the soap and the pressure is good once again, only to follow the same pattern and reduce again. Problem No 3, turn the cold water tap on and it will fluctuate from cold to warm to almost hot, then cold again, and so it continues.

Problem No 4, Omni vent, very difficult to open, fine when it is cold but turn the cooker on and you have no chance, obviously the plastic is expanding.

So with these small problems I returned back to the dealer, there answers as follows:

Water smell/taste, your fault you have used contaminated water, or you have dropped your filler pipe on the ground causing contamination, or there has been cross contamination when you have filled up your water carrier, i.e. from an adjacent waste water emptying point, and you now have microscopic bacteria in the system that is causing the problem and is very difficult to eradicate, and is chargeable @ almost £50 per hour by repeated flushing with a water cleaning agent. Your best bet sir is to go to the accessory shop purchase some water cleaner and do it yourself!

Problem No2, low pressure at shower head, that sir is caused by hot water being used, thus is lowering the head of pressure in the tank? There theory more hot water in the tank the greater the pressure.

Problem No3, cold water taps intermittently running warm/hot, Aghh, the problem there sir is that they run the hot/cold water pipes side by side when they build them, then make them inaccessible by building the furniture round them, so there is not much we can do about that, you will have to live with it!

Problem No4, Omni vent, the knack there sir is to back it off a little with the handle then re try, it usually works, it is caused by the top only being lifted on one side, so some times starts of at an angle and will not open.

I'm still stunned into silence and preparing myself for round 2, or am I being too picky and expecting too much for the best part of £15 grand? Your thoughts, and what actions you would take would be much appreciated.

Allan & Gill.
 
Jul 31, 2006
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Allan & Gill,

Sounds like your dealer is giving you a load of bovine excrement (Bull Sh*t!).

find out the owners name or the Md if it's a large company, write him/her a polite but firm letter,send it recorded delivery, stating your points, end with if they cannot or will not sort out the problems by XX date, then, regretably you will reject the caravan on the grounds that it's not fit for purpose & will be seeking a full refund plus damages.

If they have any sense they will sort out the problemt tuit suit, and of course to this point it's only cost you the time & postage.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Allan & Gill

Looks like you have a dealer that cannot be bothered to sort out what looks like relatively small problems with your van. We have none of the issues you have with our Oklahoma and even though our vans are different layouts without doubt the plumbing will look similar. Good advice from George, I would also contact Bailey customer service and inform them of your issues, once informed I would not be suprised if they don't have a word with your dealer. A longer term solution could be to use another dealer if you have one locally who is committed to the Bailey transient warranty scheme.
 
Jul 22, 2005
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Allan & Gill where abouts is your dealer as it sounds like the one we were at!! we were looking to buy a new Bailey pageant and i asked several questions about if things werent quite to standard and their reply was "ah well if its quality you want you have to increase your budget to at least 16-18k" there how is that for a reply!!!! so obviously your van isnt quality!!! silly you for thinking that it was, some of these salesmen must think that that sort of money is a drop in the ocean to us caravanners - well its not to us we work d*mn hard for it. guess what we didnt buy it we kept our trusty 2003 Ranger

dig your heels in and pestering them til their sick of the sight of you - Good Luck

Yvonne
 
Jul 12, 2005
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Contact Bailey on the help line on their site. They will sort this for you and give the dealer a "B*****ing" at the same time.

Steve
 

Damian

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Mar 14, 2005
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Hi Allan & Gill,

Sorry to hear of your problems, and the replies from the dealer.

All the answers sound rather like they have not got a clue!!

The chorine taste is probably due to the manufacturer when building the van sterilising the system prior to delivery and it not being flushed out properly. Only by extended flushing will you get rid of it, and if they are charging
 
Mar 14, 2005
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[mailto:kelly@bailey-caravans.co.uk]

alan,gill speak or email this lady at bristol,very very helpful

hope this is the answer yur looking for,let me know

dave
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Thanks for all your replies so far, will be giving the dealer a call in the morning to see if we cant alter there attitude ( or give them a dip in the river trent that they are located very close to near Nottingham ) As Gill has just told me it is not very practical to rinse food under a cold water tap that keeps turning warm/hot, especially when it is salad/fish, and surley this must be a design fault and should not expect the customer to "put up with it" Same goes for the Omni vent when you most need to use it ie when you are cooking you cant open it beacause it has expanded with heat! And looking back the smell/taste of the water has been there from day 1, first off we had milky white water coming through, when I questioned the dealer I was told that it was just the coating from the pipes washing off! Once again thanks for all your help and we will keep you posted as to the out come.

Allan & Gill.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hi Alan and Gill,

Don't bother to phone this dealer about your problems go and see them and when you get someone ie.the managing director to put your problems too talk to them with other people present in a LOUD voice I guarantee he'll jump and put things right he'll be embarassed.Have a go but not on the phone because people are very brave hiding behind a phone.The very best of luck.Jim
 
Dec 16, 2003
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On the shower, I agree with Damian that the pump probably can't keep up with the initial flow rate.

I don't know much about caravans, and the pump on our van is switched by microswitches on the taps, but I have had boat systems with a pressure switch and an accumulator tank and I believe some caravan water systems operate this way. In theory the accumulator smooths the pressure and will deliver a higher rate than the pump's maximum flow rate for short periods (if another tap is switched on somewhere for example). But if you're getting a few seconds of high flow then a drop, it could be that the pump capacity is just too low for the shower head. You haven't changed the shower head I presume?
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Thanks for the reply Alan, no the shower head has not been changed it is still the original, water is drawn from the on board tank via an inboard Aqua Sorce pump that are supposed to give a high flow rate, i have never come across any of the problems that we are experiencing in 30 years of caravaning with a multitude of different caravans. But the most disconcerting thing is the dealers could not care less attitude, I have delt with them for over 30yrs, and back in the 70s there service was top draw, but it seems as they get bigger, that they become a victim of there own success, surfice to say that it will be the last time that I will deal with them.

Allan & Gill.
 
Nov 6, 2006
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Thanks for the reply Alan, no the shower head has not been changed it is still the original, water is drawn from the on board tank via an inboard Aqua Sorce pump that are supposed to give a high flow rate, i have never come across any of the problems that we are experiencing in 30 years of caravaning with a multitude of different caravans. But the most disconcerting thing is the dealers could not care less attitude, I have delt with them for over 30yrs, and back in the 70s there service was top draw, but it seems as they get bigger, that they become a victim of there own success, surfice to say that it will be the last time that I will deal with them.

Allan & Gill.
With regard to the Omnivent, we have exactly this problem on a 1998 van, and the cause is not due to tacky mastic. The real problem is the design, as the stay for the cover is also the lever that opens it. When closed the stay/lever lies horizontal, and it can be very difficult to get it to move. Effectivly you try to raise the edge of the cover vertically,by pushing at its edge horizontally!. Things can be improved by ensuring that the stay is as clean as possible. The dealer suggested solution of backing off the knob but leaving it slightly under tension does work. Its just a poor design
 
Mar 14, 2005
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So back to the supplying dealer who fobbed me off with a load of codswallop and basically told me it was my fault and I had contaminated the system (really it has been there from Day 1) so I phoned Bailey who immediately told me that the problem was with the pipes and they would have to be replaced under warranty back at the factory. Informed supplying dealer who almost called me a liar and wanted the name of the person who I had spoken to at Bailey, so I gave it to them and waited for a return call after they had spoken to them. Right sir the caravan will have to go back to Bailey at Bristol, but they cant fit it in until September, my reply not good enough, under the sales of goods act you are responsible for remedying the problem within " a reasonable amount of time" and sorry 4 months is not a reasonable amount of time, silence, well sir you could try phoning them, reply not my problem my contract is with yourselves not Bailey you phone them, well sir there after sales is cr*p and if you the consumer phone them it might hurry them along a bit!. Stalemate, hour latter phone call from dealer, we have spoken to Bailey again and they are now saying the information they gave you could be wrong, and before they rip the pipes out suggest that you clean the system with a priority cleaner to see if you can eradicate it. My reply was to tell them that it was there responsibility to carry out any remedial work to cure the problem, there reply if we clean it, which is a time consuming job and it cures the problem we will have to charge you for it as it is not covered under warranty, I will not tell you my reply other than to tell them I will be informing them by recorded letter that I will be rejecting the caravan as it is not fit for purpose. I have been informed by a very good source that the problem is at manufacture stage where they have used a cleaning agent in the pipes and have left it in to long before flushing it and it is now causing the pipes to leech in to the water???

The ongoing saga.......... Allan & Gill
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Alan I read this with interest I to have the same van bought from the same dealer in August 2005, the 4th brand new van from them.They sales dept are very good but sadly the after sales service has deteriorated as they have got bigger The service manager I think is named Mickey Mouse.

Any way if you would like to come round to see how the shower should operate to compare it with yours you are most welcome I live in Nottingham near Clifton bridge.

We do like this van and it has had very very few faults in the last 18 months unlike the previous load of poo that was built by 5year olds in Humberside.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Thanks for the reply and the offer, what I have written here is only a very brief outline of what has been going on, Today's conversation would have to be heard to be believed, to say that they were down right rude would be an understatement! I have now got trading standards involved and I am following there advice very closely. What really bewilders me is the fact that it is nothing of huge proportions that is wrong with the van, in the old days I would have popped in with it and they would have rectified the problem, but unfortunately those days are long gone, along with customer curtsey.

Thanks again, and I might take you up on the offer of seeing your shower........ Allan & Gill.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Thanks for the reply and the offer, what I have written here is only a very brief outline of what has been going on, Today's conversation would have to be heard to be believed, to say that they were down right rude would be an understatement! I have now got trading standards involved and I am following there advice very closely. What really bewilders me is the fact that it is nothing of huge proportions that is wrong with the van, in the old days I would have popped in with it and they would have rectified the problem, but unfortunately those days are long gone, along with customer curtsey.

Thanks again, and I might take you up on the offer of seeing your shower........ Allan & Gill.
Wooops Courtesy.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Forgot to mention and I quote : well sir it is not that serious, when you go away on holiday do not use the water system, but buy bottled water and that will get you temporarily over the problem, and he was implying not just for drinking!

Allan & Gill.
 
Sep 5, 2006
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I agree that the water contamination & vent should be fixed by the dealer or factory asap. But the other two problems my opinion (for what its worth) is thus:-

Cold tap running warm / cold :- this is easily solved by running it for a few seconds before doing any cooking or drinking. This will result in the heated water coming out followed by a uniform flow of cold water.

Variable pressure :- The pressure will build in a hot water heater as the air above the water head becomes heated by the water & expands. When you turn your tap on the pressure in the hot water tank "pushes" the water out of the tank & down the hot water pipe to the tap / shower etc. Once the water level drops the air pressure is gone and the pump alone has to move the water hence the drop in pressure seen at the tap.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Thanks for that Glenn, but unfortunately we have tried all the permutations, you can leave the cold tap running as long as you like but it will still fluctuate between cold & hot, all you achieve is an empty water tank that much quicker. With regards to the shower, again & this is according to Bailey, there should be no significant drop in water pressure, due to the fact that they have fitted quite a large inboard pump to the senator series, and thus should be more than adequate to compensate for any loss of pressure once the hot water level has dropped.

Allan & Gill.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Bailey have now changed there tune, and tell me that before they will do anything to help, it is my responsibility in the first instance to flush the water system through with a water cleaning agent, if it still persists they will then replace the entire water system. My argument is that it has been there from Day 1 so it is therefore the supplying dealers responsibility to flush & clean the system, as under the sale of goods act if the problem is found within the first 6 months of use it is deemed to have been there from manufacture, but they will not budge an inch, and I am very reluctant to start to introduce cleaning agents in to the system that they could accuse me of at a latter date of causing the problem, and have told them that I will go as far as sterilizing the Aqua roll, and the onus is upon them to rectify the problem with in the caravan. So now we are at stand of, so a recorded letter has been sent informing them that if the problems are not sorted within a reasonable amount of time, then a replacement or full refund will be required

Allan & Gill..
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hi Alan and Gill, sorry to hear your tale of woe, have you got any finance out on the van? if so then tell the finance company all. They will then get the dealer who arranged the finance to sort it out as the van is technically theres untill you have paid for it or a percentage any way. We did this with our previous van and the dealer said how high and which hoop! Worked for us. Since then we have upgraded to a better quality van, and we are enjoying it, no faults as yet "touch wood" scratching head he say's. Best wishes Bazz..
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Thanks for the words of encouragement Bazz, but unfortunately there is no finance involved with the purchase, but I have involved trading standards that have been very helpful. What really annoys me is there could not care less attitude, being down right rude, and almost to the point of calling me a liar, great customer after care, in fact non existent.

The battle continues, and if any one else has suffered problems with there water systems it would be great to hear from you, or in fact any one that could offer some useful pointers in bringing the mighty to there knees.

Allan & Gill.
 
May 17, 2007
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Hi Allan and Gill.

Do not know what kind of system you have on the bailey ,But we had a simiar problem with our avondale with an on-board pump, I studied the pump documentation an found that some systems have a one-way valve in the hot water pipe and this stops the hot water back tracking into the cold water system. i fitted this vave and the cold water stays cold .Hope this might be of some use.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Thanks for that michael,according to Bailey they used to fit a non return valve in to the hot water system, but apparently according to them it caused a lot of other problems so they removed it.

Allan & Gill.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Took the caravan back to the dealers today to have all the warranty work done, amazing how helpful they are once you involve the services of consumer direct, worth every penny for the recorded letter informing them of my rights, all of a sudden they do not want to charge me for cleaning the water system, in an effort to eradicate the bad taste & smell, and if that does not work it is back to Bailey at Bristol to have all the water system replaced. When would you like to bring it in sir, when would you like it back, absolutely amazing, but you should not have to go to these lengths to get the service that you are entitled to. It's about time the caravan industry woke up and smelt the coffee before it is too late, or they will suffer the same fate as the British car industry for being to complacent, and I am sure there must be some foreign players waiting in the wings monitoring it and waiting to jump in and do the job right. And how's this to make your eyes water, I have had a maxview crank up satellite dish bought me for my birthday and it requires fitting on the roof, ahh thought I, while the dealer has it in for repair I will ask him to fit it for me, yes sir we will have a look at it when you bring it in, and when they looked at it quoted me between 6 / 8 hrs to fit it @
 

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