Bailey Unicorn Srs 3 upholstery/seat squabs

[Montrose]

Hello,
We have a 2016 Bailey Unicorn Seville, which we took delivery of this June.
We are concerned that the seat squabs are showing signs of being very weak after
only about 30 days/nights in the van.
We have tried contacting Belfield directly, but they sent a polite reminder that they can
only assist once Bailey have been involved by our supplying dealer.
This is what we are doing presently, but I just wondered if anyone else has
seen the same problem with their Bailey seat/bed squabs.

 

[RONALD5555]

Hi Montrose, We have a 2015 Cartagena, We too were not happy with the front seat cushions and they were sent back to Bellfield through our Dealer to be checked. They were returned to us as okay. I then contacted Bellfield to see if any other foam was available. We decided to have the foam replaced with High Density foam which I would pay for. This was ordered and payed for, and as I live about I hour away, I drove down and waited about 20 minutes while they changed the foam, ( they also have a collection service). We just replaced the 2 large base cushions.They are very firm, and I am much happier. The guy that did the job at Bellfield said that most Caravan builders are requesting softer (and lighter?) foam

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello,
We have a 2016 Bailey Unicorn Seville, which we took delivery of this June.
We are concerned that the seat squabs are showing signs of being very weak after
only about 30 days/nights in the van.
We have tried contacting Belfield directly, but they sent a polite reminder that they can
only assist once Bailey have been involved by our supplying dealer.
This is what we are doing presently, but I just wondered if anyone else has
seen the same problem with their Bailey seat/bed squabs.

I can't comment on the actual issue with the seat squabs, but Belfield's response is perfectly correct. Your contract for the caravan and all its parts (including seat cushions) is with your seller, and therefore any issues with caravan or its parts the parts should be addressed to the seller. This is enshrined in your legal rights as set out in the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

In Ronalds case, when he receive a comment from Belfield's about the foam, and they said its "Okay" I can understand that response. Commercially Belfield are not responsible for the design or specification of the cushions, the specification is part of the caravan manufacturer's responsibility, and Belfield should follow that specification. If the Caravan manufacturer has got the design and thus the specification wrong, that is not Belfield's problem. So all Belfield have done is to confirm the cushions are to specification.

However if the specification is wrong and the cushions are not sufficiently durable, or they fail to provide the support a reasonable person would expect, then they might be deemed not fit for purpose, and that would mean the seller has sold goods in breach of the CRA. You would be within your rights to reject the cushions and the seller should take appropriate action to remedy the situation. BUT, it is not a clear cut case, and finding enough evidence to show that the design of the cushions is inadequate will be very difficult..

Do some research about your rights under teh CRA, organisations like Which,and money saving expert have some very useful information, and or course there are places like Trading Standards and the CAB Citizens Advice Bureau . which might be able to offer professional advice.

 

[Raywood]

Hi Montrose, We have a 2015 Cartagena, We too were not happy with the front seat cushions and they were sent back to Bellfield through our Dealer to be checked. They were returned to us as okay. I then contacted Bellfield to see if any other foam was available. We decided to have the foam replaced with High Density foam which I would pay for. This was ordered and payed for, and as I live about I hour away, I drove down and waited about 20 minutes while they changed the foam, ( they also have a collection service). We just replaced the 2 large base cushions.They are very firm, and I am much happier. The guy that did the job at Bellfield said that most Caravan builders are requesting softer (and lighter?) foam

For softer and lighter also read cheaper!

I agree with the Prof on his legal assessment but seating is far more subjective than say a leaking caravan so a claim will be far more difficult.

 

[PaulT]

Hi Montrose, We have a 2015 Cartagena, We too were not happy with the front seat cushions and they were sent back to Bellfield through our Dealer to be checked. They were returned to us as okay. I then contacted Bellfield to see if any other foam was available. We decided to have the foam replaced with High Density foam which I would pay for. This was ordered and payed for, and as I live about I hour away, I drove down and waited about 20 minutes while they changed the foam, ( they also have a collection service). We just replaced the 2 large base cushions.They are very firm, and I am much happier. The guy that did the job at Bellfield said that most Caravan builders are requesting softer (and lighter?) foam

We have a 2016 Cartagena which we are living in whilst we renovate a barn. We've also noticed that the seat squabs are dipping and are not very comfortable. As a matter of interest, how much did the change to a higher density foam cost?

 

[Montrose]

Thanks for the replies to date folks.
Have been in contact with our own dealer today
expect to hear from Bailey on Monday/Tuesday.
Hoping to hear agin from Ronald 5555 ref the price he paid
to upgrade as armed with that info I can make that step
straight away of I dont have luck with Belfield in their
examination of my seat squabs.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Dont be afraid to use the CRA regulations. They are there to help consumers get what they need and pay for.. Did you ask for unsatisfactory cushions? No so why should you accept them?

It is the seller's responsibility to resolve issues like this without needing you to contact manufacturers and suppliers, that is the dealer's job and what they are paid for.

If a seller allows goods not conforming to contract to reach the customer they are in breach of your legal rights under the CRA. Where a product like a caravan contains many different types of goods, it is unreasonable for the seller to expect the customer to be able to fully check the suitability of all the items in the caravan before purchase. In fact becasue you used a dealer you were relying on them to use their 'expert' knowledge of the product and its capabilities to ensure the goods were fit for your purposes. If the cushions are not meeting your needs then the dealer has failed in their implied duty of care to you..

This concept is not written down, but it has been demonstrated in several cases where customers have had complaints against 'experts' up held.

Do the research into the CRA, and if necessary take professional advice, but don't just roll over and let the dealer get away selling unsatisfactory goods.

Its only when people start to use the power of the rights they have under the CRA that retailers will start to understand they can't just walk rough shod over customers. That will have a backwash effect as retailers start to push faulty goods back up the supply chain to the people that made them faulty.

 

[RONALD5555]

We paid £172.80 and only replaced the 2 long base cushions because they were the ones we sit on.They are very firm, but comfortable and much more supportive, and we then use a mattress topper when the rarely used front bed is needed.Collection and redelivery would be something around £20. Belfield already had the appropriate measurements.

 

[PaulT]

Is it likely that this could be a DIY job with Bellfield suplying the materials?

 

[Montrose]

My thanks to Prof JohnL for your valued input, had we been at home, we would have the opportunity to apply more pressur on the dealer along the lines you have explained. However, we are currently into a winter break and have been already 10 days away from home, and during which our problem has highlighted itself. Our last holiday in the van was during warmer times and we spent long days sat in the awning, not as with this trip where full days have been spent in the van, but I am grateful to you nevertheless. We approached Belfield directly as we are due to end up only 30 miles away from them in about a weeks time, before returning home, so that was the reason for that. To Ronald, thank you also for your last response, amed with that info, I will have an idea of a route to take, when I hear from my dealer (Reads) after they have contacted Bailey, early next week.
Thanks again

 

[Dustydog]

Morning Montrose

When our Senator was new 8 years ago the seat back rests began to bow significantly. Our dealer returned them and they came back better than original at mo extra cost. 8 years on they are fine. It seems to to me manufacturers are still skimping on quality and trying to get away with as much as possible. They should know by now that a caravans seat rest takes far more abuse than our home settees. For the sake of a few quid more failing seats should not be an issue B)

 

[Trevormc]

Just replaced all our seating (22 year old van ) cost £700 lot more comfortable.

Trevor

 

[emmerson]

Just replaced all our seating (22 year old van ) cost £700 lot more comfortable.

Trevor

My 37 year old Royale still has its original upholstery.
Quality tells every time.

 

[Raywood]

Just replaced all our seating (22 year old van ) cost £700 lot more comfortable.

Trevor

My 37 year old Royale still has its original upholstery.
Quality tells every time.

True but they were a fortune when they built them. As with most things you get whet you pay for.

 

[Montrose]

The Update I Promised.
Well, by arrangement we have now visited Belfield Furnishings with our seat squabs, while travelling North.
Straight away they said there was no doubt that the foam had collapsed and they will be repaired under warranty.
They wanted to take the cushions there and then but as we were on a local CL, needed them to sleep on that night. We were shown a pile of Unicorn III cushions, all in for warranty exchange, so ours are nothing new to therm. It transpires that Bailey chose the 'honeycomb section' foam as a way of reducing weight. We were told
other manufacturers had already been along that route, but Lunar & Swift had returned to full foam specification.
So now back home, TNT are collecting them tomorrow to go back to Belfields. (their cost) We have been advised that there is a two year warranty on the cushions, so if not happy again in that period afterwards, we can do exactly the same. So I think there lesson is to new buyers, unless you are both 'waif' like in stature, is to start unzipping the cushions when you start to inspect your chosen new van and check to see if there are honeycomb cells missing in the foam, as you will probably end up where we have been. Incidentally in keeping our dealer in the loop today, we found they have taken in two more sets of Unicorn Srs III upholstery this week, enough said.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Good result - well done

 

[Raywood]

I agree it is a good result. We have the Lunar so it sounds as though we are safe.

 

[Dustydog]

Well done Montrose and thanks for the update.
And congratulations to Belfield for being so decent here :cheer:
These seats almost demand a product recall. I wonder if VW fitted similar to their USA cars

 

[Mel]

Thank you for the update Montrose; knowing how these scenarios pan out is really helpful. I have a S3 Unicorn. I will examine the seats with a more critical eye ( and bottom) the next time we are in the van. If there is a problem, I will know what to do. Thanks again
Mel

 

[PaulT]

I'm having the problem with the seat squabs so made a warranty claim which has been accepted. Now the problem starts. I live in France and am at present living in the caravan. My dealer states that the seat squabs could be away for up to 4 weeks - obviously not practical. We are coming back to the UK for a week in April so, bearing in mind what other posters have said, I asked if it would be possible for me to take the seats to Belfield and collect them the next day. I also asked about paying for an upgrade to a different foam. The following is the reply I received via my dealer, from Belfield:

Unfortunately a next day collection isn’t possible as we do not stock any items and new interiors will need to be ordered in only after an inspection has been made and if we find there to be a fault with them, we usually quote 10-15 working days turn around

If found to be faulty interiors they would be replaced ‘like for like’ as per the specification, the customer can pay to have new interiors but I’d be unsure of what was required, would they require such as the unicorn II which is sprung encapsulated?

With regard to your comment about you paying for different foam, the manufacturer doesn’t know what to use as this is specified by Bailey, they will want Belfield to supply as their spec.

I don't understand how Belfield can state that they don't stock any items - how do they manufacture anything? In addition they say that they don't know what the upgrade would be.

Has anyone else had this problem and how did those posters who have had their seats replaced quickly manage this?

 

[Montrose]

Hello PaulT,
I have just read your post and would comment (as the OP on this topic)
Bellfield are the manufacturers of the textiles incl the seat squabs in caravans. They do not make the internal foams which come ready cut to size from another company, based in Oldham. As they do not continually manufacture for one manufacturer solely, they will only order in materials on an as required basis, so they do not hold stock of any materials. In our case, they had an amount of Bailey returned seats and repaired ours as part of a batch. There will be economical sense in this, I would hope you can see, rather than stopping a process line of manufacturing just to make up a single set of seat squabs. In our case the seat squabs were away from us approaching four weeks, as they were awaiting the batch of new foams for all the returned Bailey seat squabs that they had on hand at that time. Let me say now that we are extremely pleased with the seat squabs that we received back and have the knowledge that under their two year warranty if we experience any further problems we can go through the process again, so have peace of mind about them. I do understand that you are out of the UK and that presents problems and I feel that perhaps having them refilled with non Bailey spec - i.e. at your expense - may be the only option you have. They have said that they can do this, but that would not be through Bailey OR your dealer, it would become a personal purchase. PS the factory is not a large one, perhaps about 20 persons in all, so is by no means a large scale operation. Hope this info helps.

 

[PaulT]

Many thanks, Montrose, for your reply. I can now understand Belfields position. It would seem that my only option, if I want a quick turnaround, is to pay to have the cushions upgraded (backwards) to Unicorn 2 specification. I have to say that the seats in the U3 are the most uncomfortable that I've ever had in a caravan!

 

[Dustydog]

Hang on Paul
I believe we have established the seats are substandard, not of merchantable quality and possibly a long term head ache for Bailey. You don't me to remind where your remedy ultimately lies ie the supplying dealer with whom you are in contract.
Maybe the dealer could just put themselves out a bit. Lend you a temporary set of seats and have yours refurbished to a quality acceptable today.
I still feel Bailey are hiding here

 

[PaulT]

Thanks Dusty. The issue here isn't responsibility - Bailey have accepted the warranty claim, it's just a question of how to get the seats repaired. The supplier can't do it quickly and will only replace like for like so the same problem could arise in a few years time. It does seem that the only way forward is for me to pay for the repair.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Paul,

As the manufacturer has accepted liability under the terms of their warranty scheme it , I think it may give you another option, The caravan is not only covered by the manufacturers warranty, but also your contract of sale under SoGA or the CRA depending on when you purchased it.

The fact the manufacturer has accepted liability give a lot of weight to the probability the cushions are defective with regard to materials or manufacture.That in its self is a breach of the consumers rights and the dealer is legally responsible. However there have also been a number of other similar claims which raise concerns about the design of the cushions, and whether the design/specification is not of merchantable quality and therefore also a breach of SoGA/CRA.

I suggest you look up your rights under SoGA/CRA perhaps using the consumer association's web pages under the title of Which? and consider if you should not lodge your claim directly against the supplier. If the argument about the weakness of the design is strong enough the seller will be liable to replace them with a stronger more durable design irrespective of the manufacturers views on the subject.