Bailey window blown out - any advice?

[TheSleuth]

On a recent trip down the French autoroute I noticed in my rear mirror the offside kitchen window on my Bailey Series 6 Wyoming flapping. For safety reasons I drove on about 2km to the next Aire at reduced speed intending to close it, only to discover the complete unit had meantime broken free and disappeared. A replacement with fittings has subsequently cost me £250, supply only.

I contend that for such a large item to fly off is both dangerous and unsatisfactory in properly maintained van less than 18 months old. However, despite several emails both Bailey and their supplier Miriad disclaim any responsibility and accuse me of "misuse".

Of course it's possible I failed to secure the two catches properly despite making every effort to remember to do so on each journey, but with hundreds or thousands of users this is inevitably going to happen from time to time. But the problem could just as easily have been some failure of manufacture or asembly. On any other kind of road vehicle it would surely be inconceivable to lose such a big chunk of the unit so easily in similar circumstances?

The kitchen window, a horizontal shaped oblong, unlike all others on the van (which have two) has only a single restraining stay postioned at the trailing edge which in my opinion is poor engineering, the forward edge tending to lift and twist like an aerofoil in the wind and turbulence with a greater leverage effect than on square windows with two stays to maintain rigidity. If the stay fails then the window is free to rotate up to an angle which allows the clip in top hinge to disengage with the fixed channel above the window.

In other Bailey layouts the same window is fitted nearside which does not pose the same forces as the stay is then at the leading edge.

The final straw is to be forced to buy two new stays as they "are only sold in pairs" irrespective of needing only one!! Bailey can save money by deleting it but you as a customer don't share that advantage.

Have others experienced any similar problems; do they agree this is an unacceptable safety hazard and if so what can they suggest as a suitable course of action given Bailey rejects even a partial ex gratia contribution without liability.

 

[Damian]

Malcolm, what you describe is classic non securing of the window I am afraid.

The windows in use and the securing method is the same on just about every caravan on the road, and it such a rare thing to lose a window.

It is much more usual for roof vent covers to be lost, again from forgetting to secure them prior to travelling.

If you saw the window flapping, why drive an extra 2km, surely that is what the hard shoulder is for,,,,to stop on in the event of an emergency.

Carrying on driving not only lost you the window, but also put following drivers at risk from a flying large piece of plastic.

Without the evidence (the window) it is impossible to tell whether there was a failure of the locking mechanism.

I know that despite trying to ensure everything on my van is secure before travelling, sometimes I have arrived at site to find that one or more windows were only on night catch,,,,,,,,,,luckily still in place.

Whilst it is upsetting and costly to replace the window, it wil be a permanent reminder to make absolutely certain the windows are properly secure in future.

Just as a mild sweetener, at least you are not like a customer who hit a kerb on his way into a site here last week, and needs a complete new axle,,,at

 

[Guest]

We've done it and have flagged down others when we've seen flapping windows. They weren't done up!

Sorry I agree with Damian, I can't see that you have a leg to stand on against Bailey.

But you will double check next time out. Make it part of you walk around check before pulling away.

Steadies up

All doors and lockers locked and windows pulled to see if they are fastened and check that roof lights are closed and the lights all work and hitch secure.

 

[TheSleuth]

We've done it and have flagged down others when we've seen flapping windows. They weren't done up!

Sorry I agree with Damian, I can't see that you have a leg to stand on against Bailey.

But you will double check next time out. Make it part of you walk around check before pulling away.

Steadies up

All doors and lockers locked and windows pulled to see if they are fastened and check that roof lights are closed and the lights all work and hitch secure.

Damien/Euro

Thanks for your comments.

I certainly accept the need for the user to perform all the routine checks mentioned and never start a journey without doing so to the best of my ability. But I'm fallible like most others, so I believe this is without question going to happen many, many more times. And had I thought there was any chance of a detachment then of course I would have pulled over immediately. I didn't regard it as an emergency and don't think others will either. Anyway even knowing it was loose and reducing my speed I didn't see it detach so most folk won't have the chance to stop and put it right before its gone and the hazard is real, will they?

The fact you have seen flapping windows still fixed to other vans simply confirms that accidental opening whilst on the move is no rare thing and perhaps you should also be considering why THAT window hadn't come flying off too.

If one stay is sufficient then why put two on all the other 8 windows? I'm convinced nothing serious would have happened if it had been restrained at both ends. And putting the short stay at the back end I still maintain is simply stupid. The saving of weight and cost is tiny compared to the risk introduced. Designing the window as a "handed" component, a commonplace engineering technique, would have allowed the restraining assembly to be fixed at either end at miniscule cost.

 

[Guest]

Malcom the simple fact is that if you do the windows up they don't come off.

I just put my hands up and admit that as the towing driver I've missed an un-catched window and in the past I destroyed a roof light as the front edge was up.

Some of the larger side windows can get knocked off by other vehicles. So if the window comes out to horizontal at speed it can get side swiped no matter how it is fixed.

Window securing is another reason for having a good view in towing mirrors.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Malcolm,

I am sorry to read of your experience, but without the evidence of the window its-self, there really is no way to establish if there was a material or workmanship fault.

You do not say if there had been any other indication that the window or its fixings were faulty prior to the incident or whether there was any major difference to locking mechanisms for the offending window and others in the caravan. I recognise that there was only one stay but that is not the securing system.

Based on that there is no substantive evidence that there was an underlying fault.

Historically the same method of securing caravan windows has been employed for many years, and the design has only had a few incidents, which have generally been attributable to owners failing to secure the window closed. Whilst I agree that the structures do appear to be quit flimsy never the less the general design has proven to be adequate.

Neither party can prove how you did or did not secured the window. But the balance of probabilities seems to favour the likelihood that the window was not secured properly before travelling.

I do consider the fact that you did not stop as soon as you noticed the loose window to be questionable. Perhaps you had not thought of the possible consequences of a few Kg of fairly hard plastic actually detaching from the caravan, but with benefit of time to consider the event, such a flying chunk could seriously injure a pedestrian, cyclist or motor cyclist or do considerable damage to a windscreen or body work of a car, and even just as an obstruction on the road, shards of plastic might damage tyres etc.

If you had stopped quickly, you might have been in time to prevent it detaching, or if it had already done so, you might have been able to recover the bits to reduce the danger to others.

So sadly I have to agree with the other respondents that this is one that you will have to put down to experience.

 

[TheSleuth]

John

2 years ago I had one of the most terrifying experiences of my life assisting a travelling companion change a punctured caravan tyre on an Italian autoroute hard shoulder. Something I would never wish to repeat and I will never EVER stop again on the hard shoulder unless in extreme and obvious unavoidable emergency, and would advise others to do likewise.

In the recent instance I naively assumed that a manufacturer would have considered the consequences of accidental unlatching and taken every reasonable precaution to make sure it couldn't detach, so thought it a mere inconvenience and the safest option was to proceed sensibly to a safe haven a short distance ahead where I could resecure the window and proceed. My guess is most users would have done likewise. Of course I would have stopped immediately if I had believed detachment was a remote possibility and I was genuinely shocked to discover it's loss.

The depth of this narrow side window is 350mm so it's hardly likely to have struck another vehicle whilst I did so, even if at 90 degrees horizontal, as another poster alleges since it was on the French nearside and I reduced speed. And yes, I could clearly see it in my correctly adjusted mirrors when I looked back at that side. But I don't do that continuously whilst driving slower than most other traffic in the nearside lane and neither does anyone else. However once unlatched it can fly up and disappear before you would have time to see it or react.

But this isn't principally about what I did or didn't do or whether I can prove or not I latched the window. Even if you think I'm an absolute idiot, the point is there are certainly more like me out there so this scenario will be repeated time and again I suggest. What evidence do you have for the statement "the design has only had a few incidents"? How do you know?

The real question is - or should be - is what exists acceptable and can it be significantly improved. Answer in my book, no (on the clear evidence of my experience) and yes respectively.

From the collective comments I'm obviously wrong about caravan design safety standards unlike those I had to apply in a lifetime of manufacturing other engineered products where one always had to sek a failsafe situation if one component failed or some other misfortune struck.

You say "there was only one stay but that is not the securing system". I'm afraid I don't agree. The stay's (or stays') limit of travel is the ONLY thing preventing the window rotating to a point where the hinge extrusion ceases to function as a retaining mechanism once the acrylic is unlatched. The stay acts as a mechanism to select the amount of opening on site but has a vital secondary purpose since the hinge has no physical fasteners whatsoever. In such circumstances, if a single stay isn't strong enough to resist an overtravel due to wind force and act as a fail-safe mechanism then it needs beefing up in my view. it would cost virtually nothing. And if as proven, such a dangerous outcome is to be expected as all of you regard as likely, then what on earth is the manufacturer doing taking out one stay and mounting the remaining one in the least effective position for goodness sake?

I fitted the replacement this morning and noticed that in addition to having but one stay, it is fitted in a reverse manner to all the bigger windows. That is, the acrylic attachment point is at the top (ie very close to the hinge point) and the frame attachment end towards the bottom. Thus there is a lever effect and a quickly swinging window will have a much greater shock effect when it reaches the stay travel limit than in the reverse setup as the stay is extending much slower in the more common configuration.

And why,oh why put the single stay at the downwind end? Sorry guys but that defies commonsense and is just stupid and can be engineered out at zero cost by proper handing as I've already pointed out. A window half way down the side of the van is going to experience probably some of the worst turbulence, so it stands to reason the force will vary greatly from pure end on pressure on the acrylic edge. As soon as that happens you have a strong twisting effect which wouldn't happen to anything like the same extent with a front suported setup. If any deflection occurs the effect is suddenly much worse.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

We have a printed check list inside the wardrobe door with Fridge.catches.aerial/dish etc and we check it before setting off.

We also check wheel bolts/tyre pressures/hitch security/lights etc

Its still easy to miss one especially if well wishers gather round to make sure that you are really leaving!!

 

[Guest]

My advice Malcom was just that, it was not a direct remark about your window incident. Just a few pointers from our caravanning experience gained over many years from our own ravel and others we know. You might have noted that I did say larger windows!

Sorry Malcom but I believe there is problem with this part of your post "In the recent instance I naively assumed that a manufacturer would have considered the consequences of accidental unlatching". In all our years of caravanning and having been in scores of caravans I've yet to come across caravan window catch designs that just pop open. Many caravan windows seem to possibly have to many catches but I assume that is to help with security as well as keeping the windows closed when on the road.

So by providing catches that don't pop open manfacturers consider window security and windows detaching to be covered when whooshing along highways and byways.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello again Malcolm,

I stand by my statement, but at no time did I write or imply that I thought you an idiot, that is your own interpretation, I am sorry if that is the impression you took from my posting but please be assured it was not the underlying sentiment.

 

[Damian]

I have trawled through the archives of postings going back as far as the system will allow, which is quite a long time, and can find no other postings relating to windows being lost in similar, or even vaugely similar, situations.

There are postings of broken windows through other various mishaps, varying from hitting branches, containers, collisions with other vehicles etc.

Quote "In the recent instance I naively assumed that a manufacturer would have considered the consequences of accidental unlatching and taken every reasonable precaution to make sure it couldn't detach,"

There are no postings or reports of windows which suddenly decide to undo themselves.

Manufacturers have been using the same locks for years, and they are very effective, otherwise there would have been lots of comments about them.

The only thing manufacturers cannot build out is user error, that is, failing to lock them properly.

Quote "The stay's (or stays') limit of travel is the ONLY thing preventing the window rotating to a point where the hinge extrusion ceases to function as a retaining mechanism once the acrylic is unlatched. "

The stays are not made as travel limiters, they are purely for setting the amount the window is open.

The tube stays are simply two tubes which slide inside/ouside each other and will separate when the length of tube runs out.

Quote "And why,oh why put the single stay at the downwind end? "

As windows are mass produced for more than one model and more than one fitting position, whilst the stay may have been downwind on your van, on another van mounted on the other side it wil be upwind.

To manufacture individual fitment windows would make the cost prohibitive, and in your case instead of costing

 

[ValA.]

We saw a van coming back from Wales last week with the rooflight flapping slowly up and down as he drove along. We flashed him as we drove past, and he pulled off into Chester services - then I ran across the speak to him. He was really grateful, went into the van to check, and then noted that he'd left the bedroom window unlatched too! Fortunately there was no damage to the window or the rooflight, but it's so easy to forget in the hurry of unpitching.

Our window catches are really quite tight, and I can't imagine any scenario where they would 'unlatch' on their own.

 

[TheSleuth]

Damien, Val and others

For the sake of argument, let's put aside the probability of component failure being the cause (although plastics aren't always made correctly or assembled - witness several of my Cadac BBQ plastic fittings all cracking within a few months of purchase. A faulty batch I was told, and replaced under warranty). I would agree it seems more likely I didn't latch the window securely despite being extremely safety conscious.

But nearly everybody posting here says they've seen or themselves experienced an unsecured window and yet all, including me, say they do their best to remember and check everything before moving off. So unlatched windows are most definitely NOT an uncommon event at all - probably thousands of times a year in the UK alone, maybe more. Caravan manufacturers have a duty to consider and include in their design the likely consequences of a not infrequent risk. If, as alleged "there have been very few incidents" (ie detachments), and I have no evidence otherwise, it would appear that the overall design principle IS working OK and has done for some time as Damien suggests.

So was I just unlucky then, or is there some difference from other installations that might explain why this, by far the smallest and the window you might think less vulnerable than most, did indeed detach and I was so surprised?

The answer is a most emphatic YES, and it IS different from the vast majority of windows elsewhere on my van and across the industry as a whole.

Damien, I think you need to look at the specific installation in the Series 6 Wyoming and Indiana, and possibly similar layouts - I'm not attacking the general principle of the hinge, stay etc although I suspect many caravanners would be surprised that if they lifted any window above horizontal (the stay IS designed to stop that whatever you may believe!) then the window would literally fall out as it is not mechanically fastened in any way like a normal domestic hinge would be. If the stay fails when the window is unlatched, the integrity of the assembly is devastatingly compromised.

On this particular kitchen window in my van:

- there is only 1 stay, 50% less than normal

- two stays, one at each end, inhibit twisting much better, highly relevant in a turbelent airstream

- the single stay is mounted at the back end. The least effective end to resist turbulent wind forces and probably the worst aspect of the design

- the window is a longish horizontal rectangle, so the unstayed leading edge can exert greater leverage effect than normal if the front lifts

- the stay is fitted in reverse manner to ALL the others; the attachment point to the acrylic being much closer to the hinge extrusion at the top and the "pin" end being on the window not the frame as everywhere else. Again this greatly increases the lever effect if the window swings up rapidly. And also as a result,

- there is no latch on the stay itself as is the case on every other window so this window has only 2 latch points not the conventional 4 (or even 6!) elsewhere.

- the detached acrylic took the compete stay unit with it, leaving only the window frame bracket (with pin still intact). ie the stay failed at the rod end which is exactly what you'd expect if the front end lifted first and twisted away, something that almost certainly couln't happen when secured at both ends.

It is not for me to speculate why these diffences exist and I readily understand compromises have to be made for price, weight, commonality, variety reduction etc. But safety should be at the very heart of any consideration and the more I look at this issue the more I am convinced an error has been made and we will see a repeat of my experience. I just hope tragedy does not result as well as a hefty bill! Thus to be summarily rebuffed by the manufacturer as a knee jerk reaction is most disappointing if not altogether surprising situation.

I will defer to your caravan expertise, Damien, as this is only my second van, but not I'm afraid to your manufacturing engineering knowledge if you think that handing of components for LH or RH requirement is either expensive or uncommon elsewhere. These windows could be made in an either/or state at absolutely miniscule or nil cost/weight penalty I can assure you, and still use the exact same componentry in either case. Modern machinery used on such products allows you to select and change parameters at the flick of a switch. And a properly thought out design would allow an end spares user to assemble whichever way round was required. Bailey runs its line on a JIT basis and receives window acrylic already assembled into the aluminium frame and gives the supplier an exact time phased requirement.

So there is absolutely no excuse for fitting the stay on the trailing edge other than one of convenience and although I can't prove it I believe this is the primary cause, turning an insignificant matter into a serious hazard.

A small benefit to come out of this saga was the discovery that the window latch pads are not symmetrical but have sides of two different thicknesses and can be turned through 180 degrees simply by removing two posidrive screws. It is thus dead easy to ease or an individual latch or to pull the window in a touch if it doesn't seal properly or is drafty. Probably old hat to old timers but I didn't know!

And lastly - wouldn't you know, the replacement stays which were out of stock originally arrived this morning (only needed one but have to buy a pack of two). Yes, in typical fashion they've sent the wrong ones as these are far too long. Grrr...........again!

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Malcolm

I've been watching this post with interest as I have the same caravan as you.

1. We always double check each other's jobs before departure. Takes 5 mins and we have found a few window latches incorrectly fastened usually by my beloved.

2. I agree the single support is wrong and also on the wrong side. A devil to reach when you are cooking.

3. I cannot see it will have any support effect in transit , even if you had two.

4. Bailey are being very unreasonable demanding you pay for two! Let's hope they send you one FOC in view of the latest **** up.

5. Otherwise do you like your Wyoming.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Guest]

Malcom

Lets look a a few other Caravan points.

Un-hitching from tow ball and pulling away with breakaway cable or electric cables still attached to the tow car.

Why don't maufacturers have self detaching systems so cables don't get ripped apart or caravan pulled off chocks.

Leaving parked position with one or more steadies down. It happens! I've seen the back corner floor of a caravan ripped out when a rear corner steady snagged on road hump.

So why don't manufacturers fit self retracting steadies? Just in case.

Jockey wheels get left down, some people fail to lift them high enough. Others fail to clamp them so they drop down and some fail to park them so they can't unwind!

Over many years I've seen caravans travelling with sparks coming from the remains of the jockey wheel assembly and wheels skipping and twisting along the road.

I've seen jocky wheels ripped off or bent on more than one ferry ramp and on site road ways. So may be an electric self retracting and securing system is needed for all jockey wheels.

Our old caravan dealer had dozens of stories about people destroying jockey wheels and some who tried to claim off him for them as well. No doubt other dealers have sold plenty of jockey wheels due to caravanners failure to lift them fully and secure them.

How many will admit to forgetting to unhook the EHU from the site distribution post. Seen that as well.

One power supply box wrecked on French site and other caravanners belongings scattered by a cable being pulled straight and being ripped from the owners caravan damaging the locker door and battery box.

There also other caravanner tricks of forgetting water containers and Aquaroll's, hoses (inlet & outlet) pushing steps or awning parts under the caravan side and then wrecking them when the caravan crushes them. Satellite dishes, aerials and cabling another problem for some who forget them.

Also how about leaving the drying rack (with & without clothing) attached to the van.

Then there was one we saw a couple of months ago. Caravan outfit driving towards the gate of the site with a large dog trotting briskly behind the family caravan. Its lead tied to a rear manouvering handle, other caravanners were running after the outfit to stop them before they turned on to the main road. The dog was fine and was soon in the back of the car with his mate.

If they had got to the road a 'breakaway' type handles could have saved the dog and it could stop damage by caravanners who pull to hard rather than push on the handles.

The fact is that if you secure the widow catches and jockey wheels and steadies they don't come undone!

If you clear away all your caravanning goods they don't get destroyed.

We and Val and others have spotted flapping windows and roof light covers and the reason is that people forget to check the're closed. As Damian says, most of us get to an open window before it is damaged I don't see why manufacturers need to change well tried and tested windows.

 

[alunhve]

Euro

I can only admit guilt to 2 of those items mentioned. Many years ago after waiting a while with the legs down to go into a CCC Temporary Holiday site I missed raising on leg when starting to move caravan onto the site. Fortunately it was realised quite quockly and although slightly distorted it continued to give service through the rest of the time I had that caravan. The second offence was forgetting to remove the breakaway cable after uncoupling which was only about 15 months ago but was the only time in 22 years of caravanning.

Alun

 

[Guest]

Euro

I can only admit guilt to 2 of those items mentioned. Many years ago after waiting a while with the legs down to go into a CCC Temporary Holiday site I missed raising on leg when starting to move caravan onto the site. Fortunately it was realised quite quockly and although slightly distorted it continued to give service through the rest of the time I had that caravan. The second offence was forgetting to remove the breakaway cable after uncoupling which was only about 15 months ago but was the only time in 22 years of caravanning.

Alun

I've done the breakaway cable as she who can't be blamed said I was free to move the car. But I ripped a 12n plug apart as I told she who can't be blamed to move the car and I'd left it connected. God only knows why!

 

[Royston]

Euro, You have missed a very important one leaving the motor mover rollers clamped to the wheels , chased after two different outfits as they where leaving site, one with smoke comming from his tyres.Placing the motor movers locking handle in the drvers footwell(until you diss-engage the mover) stops this from happening.

Royston

 

[Hamer_5041128]

I once saw a couple obviously in a hurry i presume. Man goes to hand key in at site office, wife goes to loo at same time. Man got back to car and caravan got in and set off towards exit.

Stopped about 30 yards past exit--no wife in car. Wife trying to get his attention waving her walking stick.

I can assure you this is true.

They were both quite elderly.

I wonder if she suggested he put a note on the dashboard---check wife is in car.

Hamer

 

[ProfJohnL]

I would like to add one other very significant omission that has been vented on this forum, and that is caravans loosing a wheel.

It has been discussed at some length, and the conclusion is that the wheel became detached because the nuts/studs had not been correctly torqued before travelling.

This is a great parallel experience, because there are several million wheels that have caused no problems because the nuts have been tightened enough. You haven't seen a great clamour to change the design because a few have come loose, it is accepted there is a small probability, and there is a recognised reason for it.

The onus is on the driver to ensure their outfit is road worthy with everything safely secured.

I can understand Malcolm's anger at what has happened and the cost it has incurred him. It is possible for manufactureres to change the design to prevent detachment, but it is difficult to justify because the probability has proven to be so low.

May I suggest that if you are so concerned about the issue, that you fit a strap to the window

This will serve two purposes, firstly it will prevent the window from lifting further than the secured hinge allows. adn secondly the window became detached for some other reason it will prevent it from totally separating from the caravan.

 

[Gafferbill]

Talking about caravan windows...........

I was taking a break in a French Motorway services last week......... there was an abandoned caravan, no wheels etc..... with most of the windows missing.

One window was still intact until a guy thought he would do his bit to wreck it further.....he just punched the window in with one punch!!!!

So much for locking your caravan door!!

 

[TheSleuth]

euro

It's always sad when the best response someone can devise is ridicule or sarcasm in response to safety concerns, however amusing they think they are being about "breakaway dog handles" etc. History is littered with disasters that were caused directly by similar tunnel visioned folk who derided those who saw what might happen and didn't sit on their butt's just because it hadn't so far.

You appear not to understand the issue here when you say..."I don't see why manufacturers need to change well tried and tested windows". So please tell the rest of us ignoramuses where to look for this reassuring information as it relates to the configuration in my Series 6 Wyoming and similar recent Bailey models. I'm pretty sure nothing of the sort exists.

My point is this manufacturer HAS already changed of their own volition and this window attachment is DIFFERENT. And these are not trivial changes at all but in combination compromise the very fundamentals that to date have made window unlatchings pretty commonplace but detachments rare. It's simply no good looking at the more common setup and saying that anything remotely similar must therefore be OK.

I looked over 100 caravans at my storage area and not a single one had the configuration I've described other than Bailey; viz unrestrained into wind, single stay, fixed to the "wrong" point and on a long window. They may exist but I certainly couldn't find them. And as these are pretty new models it's not that surprising that detachments haven't become an issue - YET. My prediction is that a far, far greater proportion of these WILL detach over time if/when they become loose (as we all agree some will).

Being on the UK offside it can only then be a matter of time before several pounds wieght of acrylic hits something coming the other way at a combined speed of 120 mph plus. Amusingly trivial isn't it if I'm right and you're wrong?

Significantly Dustydog appears to be the only poster who has actually bothered to look at the configuration, and he agrees. So with respect why don't you go down to your local dealership and try and appreciate what I'm saying than simply deriding.

The vital engineering concept of Failsafe must apply. Something that shouldn't happen (unlatching) WILL happen from time to time, and when it does the design must ensure a trifle doesn't become a disaster. It didn't work in my case.

Damien

As you weren't even aware the stays had a limiting stop essential for their function I can't take your technical analysis very seriously either. you are relying on inappropriate history just like euro. How's about asking Practical Caravan's in house technical or health and safety expert to investigate and comment?

John L

The difference here is that wheel nut design so far as I'm aware hasn't been degraded. For the record I always insist on seeing the wheel nuts on all 4 of my van's wheels torqued following service and I put a marker on (in similar fashion to lorries) so I can see at a glance if any have rotated subsequently.

And, yes I shall be fitting a secondary retaining device on said window. I believe I will be able to use a standard stay - just as the supplier could have done.

All

What I am hoping is that the caravan builders will take a look at this and, even if unwilling to introduce a change or retrofit kit for current models, will nevertheless see the weakness of the design can be improved easily at at no/minimal cost on future variants.

 

[Trevor_374452713]

Short and sweet = Lock the windows before you commence your journey

 

[TheSleuth]

Hi Malcolm

I've been watching this post with interest as I have the same caravan as you.

1. We always double check each other's jobs before departure. Takes 5 mins and we have found a few window latches incorrectly fastened usually by my beloved.

2. I agree the single support is wrong and also on the wrong side. A devil to reach when you are cooking.

3. I cannot see it will have any support effect in transit , even if you had two.

4. Bailey are being very unreasonable demanding you pay for two! Let's hope they send you one FOC in view of the latest **** up.

5. Otherwise do you like your Wyoming.

Cheers

Dustydog

Dustydog

How do I like the van? Well some good and some bad as usual, and by no means fault free - see below. The end bathroom single ax models now common weren't around intially. I'd look long and hard at those if I was buying today despite the shorter front seats for my customary afternoon kip!

I'm not disappointed with styling, internal layout, storage, combi blinds /bug netting etc and it tows like a dream. And my dearly beloved will never go back to a cramped combined side shower/toilet now she's enjoyed the back bathroom space and privacy!

Externally lots of unsightly and now discoloured mastic sealant left and the external styling is very bland.

It was both cheaper and lighter than the competition with good payload although as only us two for nearly every trip plus dog I tend to load up my XC90 with the heavy stuff.

Have a full Ventura awning which is great and a Fiamma Zip which isn't and I wish I hadn't bought it as awful in any kind of wind, not entirely waterproof round the ends and takes much longer than you'd think if you want to put the sides in.

I like the comfort of having ATC stability despite never having got into a snake without it and I've had no probs with the Alko wheel locks like some. Alarm chip didn't work at first so had to take van back for it to be fixed which entailed removing the internal water tank, when they messed up the fill electrics, so a further visit for that too.

Had a Truma mover fitted. Can't imagine how folks manage without and I'm no ten stone weakling. Generally works well but can slip a bit if wet. Nowhere near as easy to position as a single axle even so.

But some things are simply not up to par on a top-of-the-range van. Pageant equivalent wasn't available when I purhased but would be my preference over Senator today and I'd buy the extras myself.

These are some niggles (no, they're more than that - sufficient for me to look very seriously at the competition next time around and because Bailey have p****d me off thoroughly by their reaction to my window issue). Jointly experienced with two Series 6 friends (one Indiana and another Wyoming):

- door lock. Absolute pants . Replaced on warranty, still NFG. Could force it by hand, ditto pathetic lower door retainer

- toilet. engineered down too far and is flimsy. cassette jammed in transit on 2 of 3 vans and had to be replaced

- flush drain. cheap and nasty. Mine froze overnight and pushed the bung out so the contents spurted out inside the external toilet locker and ran down to soak all the carpets whilst we were out the next day when it melted. Suggest you make sure yours is pointed down or a different tap/bung fitted!

- oven. thermostat allows oven to go out sometimes. supposedly fixed by warranty service but isn't

- external BBQ point. on wrong side

- water valves. incredibly stiff. One of my companion's seized completely in France so we had to reverse it so he could get any water into his van. Not sure the onboard tank is worth it but the internal pump much better

- delamination of furniture capping. 3 places fixed under warranty, but necessitated two visits to dealer.

- pull out racks in kitchen. far too cumbersome. should be individual

- TV. very disappointed. can't turn off, difficult to get connections in and close cover and to mount on revolving panel

- internal table. what a gross monster, don't know what they were thinking of. prime candidate for cost/ weight saving rather than taking out lightweight/low cost/safety-critical window furniture!

- rear steadies. ok if you like grovelling to get the handle on. Why not transverse like the front or tube guides?

- two window blind cassetes have had to be refixed (short srews)

- would have been nice to have a built in nose weight indicator

- headboard base uncomfortable. why didn't they make the mattress longer.

- heated towel rail. cheap and pretty useless.

- towel hooks don't work well

- nowhere to hang wet gear. hooks in shower?

That'll do for starters!

How do you like yours?

 

[Guest]

Malcom my personal view point is that you screwed up and it cost you money and that hurt. You expected to get a pat on the back here and you didn't and now are still trying to blame Bailey and anyone else.

I don't care what sort of fitting and catches that any caravan has. When one of us forgot to secure a side window I expected it to be gone by the time I stopped and was very surprised that it was still attached to the caravan.

I've had very frightening experiences on all sorts of roads, that would not prevent me from slowing very quickly to prevent the wind turbulence lifting the open window and stopping. It seems your fear due to a previous experience made you decide to continue on with a flapping window.

To my mind that was your choice and that action may have caused the loss of the window.

Damian posted that he could find no comparative posts about windows being lost. That's because people do windows up or slow down and stop and close them quickly if they see they are open.

Some people would be to embarassed to admit that they forgot to secure a window and lost it.

Some roof lights are very flimsy, if you do not close them they will self destruct. Been there, done it and got the T shirt! But the Flimsy brand New replacement is now over twenty years old and still fine, caravan off its wheels on a farm in Somerset. It did lots of miles with us and after we passed it on, it came a bit loose but I can't see why it would need re-designing as it did the job.

Designs change but very few modern day caravan manufacturers use one off windows and I guess that other caravans will have the same fitment.

Series 6 Wyoming, there must be a few thousand on the road and it would be interesting to know how many windows they've lost or how many of that typpe of window have come adrift. I bet it's not many and that most of your model vans will still be rolling with the same windows in place in many years to come.

That's my view, I worry that too many people want to blame others for their failings rather than take repsonsibility these days. I think Bailey are the people to address the window problem if there is an issue and that this is not the place to slag them off or the window manufacturer using one persons point of view when most of our experiences tells all others that it is a user created problem.