Battery issues

[Surfer]

We have an old 1996 4 x 4 with two batteries mainly used for towing and a newer Fiesta for use around town etc. This winter we have hardly used the 4 x 4 and it sits for a week or longer without being used. On trying to start it the battery appears to be flat for some unknown reason. However once started and taken for a drive no further issues.
Eventually realised that as the alarm was on all the time, over time it was obviously draining the battery. A condition of our insurance is that the alarm needs to be switched on all the time. There we have a Catch 22. If battery goes flat, alarm and central locking no longer work properly and all sorts of weird issues occured. Upside is that unless someone can push start an automatic, no chance of them nicking it!
The battery once charged seems to hold its charge, but not when replaced back into the vehicle. Never realised that an alarm could drain a battery over time to the point where the engine will not tick over. Not sure how to get around this as do not want to be usingt eh 4 x 4 too often. Only thought is that the batteries as there is two of them, have a low ampere each.

 

[Sproket]

You will find that one of the batteries is on its way out due to it only holding charge for such a small period of time..........
Have you thought about back charging it through your 13pin socket live & earth pins via a cheap automatic charger form lidle ?

 

[Surfer]

I connected the batteries up to my charger and they both charged up quickly snd held the charge. Batteries are not new, but not that old. If I use the 4 x 4 2 or 3 times a week, then no issue. Only issue is when it is not used for longer than a week so it seems that there must be a constantly drain. No issues during the summer and autumn as used for towing most weekends.

 

[Sproket]

It's normally when we get the first sharp frost that you will find out if the battery is still any good, the wifes old disco is a automatic & as you say you can't bump them off, the bosch battery on that was only just around three years old when it decided to start playing up, I could not find the receipt & had to bite the bullet & fit a new one..........

Because it dose not take long to charge was just how that one started.........

 

[Martin24]

My uncle has the same problem with his 5 series estate and just jump starts it. Same problem it gets very little use as he uses a variety of other cars all the time. His is due to the alarm too!

 

[xtrailman]

Would a solar panel sort it?

 

[Surfer]

Would a solar panel sort it?

I have heard of small solar panels that can fit on your dashbaord, but have not seen them. Not sure how they would connect up to the battery as obviously you do not want trailing wires all over the place.

 

[Dustydog]

Maybe something like this?
http://www.nigelsecostore.com/acatalog/Solar_car_battery_charger_2W.html
Our MX_5 battery barely lasts two weels. Again the Cobra alarm system. We try and use her every week now even if it's only a 5 mile run, well enough to fully warm her up and puty back the juice into the battery.

 

[RogerL]

Would a solar panel sort it?

I have heard of small solar panels that can fit on your dashbaord, but have not seen them. Not sure how they would connect up to the battery as obviously you do not want trailing wires all over the place.

They connect by plugging into the lighter socket - problem is that many cars these days need key in ignition to energise the lighter socket - otherwise you'd need to hardwire it yourself.

 

[Sproket]

Would a solar panel sort it?

I have heard of small solar panels that can fit on your dashbaord, but have not seen them. Not sure how they would connect up to the battery as obviously you do not want trailing wires all over the place.

If you decide on one, the ideal one want's to be about 5w due to the limitations of position & sunlight unless you have a glass sunroof to fasten it to ? that said, trickle charging your battery isn't going to help much if it's old and it's too cold for the chemistry to do its thing.
You can read more here and here about solar-trickle-charging-kits

 

[Surfer]

Would a solar panel sort it?

I have heard of small solar panels that can fit on your dashbaord, but have not seen them. Not sure how they would connect up to the battery as obviously you do not want trailing wires all over the place.

They connect by plugging into the lighter socket - problem is that many cars these days need key in ignition to energise the lighter socket - otherwise you'd need to hardwire it yourself.

Thanks as I don't smoke I have no idea if the socket is on when the key is not in the ignition however I do have to 12v outlets elsewhere on the vehicle. Also do have a sunroof which I have never used. Seems a suitable method of keeping batteries charge up.

 

[birdman101]

Solar trickle charger fits on dash with suction pads,there are quite a few on E BAY made by RING or SEALEY.

 

[RogerL]

The other 12v outlets may also need the key in the ignition, it's certainly that way on Vauxhall, Subaru and Hyundai - you'd have to check the Toyota to see if they're live all the time.

 

[Surfer]

The other 12v outlets may also need the key in the ignition, it's certainly that way on Vauxhall, Subaru and Hyundai - you'd have to check the Toyota to see if they're live all the time.

Thanks Roger. Checked the 12v and there is nothing with no key in ignition. Also had a look at teh battereies rto establish when they were purchased. Unfortunately I cannot read Japanese however indicates to me that the batteries are at least 3 years old as the truck was imported in 2009. Physically they do not look that old or knackered. As we live in a rural area although it is parked on road it may be worth taking the chance with the wires running on the outside of the vehicle to connect up a small solar panel for the winter months.

 

[DeliDave_]

Have a delica import with twin batteries and one had gone ruining the other one,put a pair on and been fine since.

 

[xtrailman]

Just find were the main cable harness enters the car through the bulkhead, punch a screwdriver through and connect of the battery via a fuse.
That's the way the towbar fitter uses normally, that will give you a easy voltage check point, and a live supply, you can buy 12volt extension leads cheap.

The 2000 year Audi i had had a volt meter fitted.

 

[Surfer]

Have a delica import with twin batteries and one had gone ruining the other one,put a pair on and been fine since.

Similar type of engine I think. Also advised we need to change them in pairs. I assume this was not done previously as two different brands of battery in the vehicle.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I don't know if this applies to the the way the batteries are used in the Delicia, but if they are connected in parallel, then it is recommend that both batteries are exactly the same type, capacity and age.

As batteries age, all their characteristics change (usually deteriorate)so if you replace just one of a pair, then the new battery is likely to have a greater capacity and cause an imbalance in the charging and discharge performance. In fact it is possible that a failing battery will adversely affect and even damage the better one - as Dave seems to have found.

 

[ChrisUK]

Why do they have 2 in parallel? is it to double the cranking current? Won't a larger battery fit. Seems odd to me. I know some fit a second battery in parallel via a split charge relay in such as defenders, to power winches.

 

[DeliDave_]

They are in parallel and I found exactly as Prof John L stated.

They are fitted as part of winterpack with dual batteries and uprated alternator to cope with extreme cold in parts of Japan.The owners forums all state that you have to replace both batteries if one is faulty and in matched pairs.Mine starts instantly even if left for a couple of weeks.

 

[Sproket]

They are in parallel and I found exactly as Prof John L stated.

They are fitted as part of winterpack with dual batteries and uprated alternator to cope with extreme cold in parts of Japan.The owners forums all state that you have to replace both batteries if one is faulty and in matched pairs.Mine starts instantly even if left for a couple of weeks.

Just found this :
The twin battery configuration is standard on 4 diesel cylinder models fitted with the winter pack, they may optionally be fitted on other models, the remainders have a conventional single battery system. Both batteries are wired in parallel, so normal 12v electrics are still used throughout. By having two batteries it enabled Toyota to use cheaper and smaller batteries and still provide the required CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) to start the Diesel engines in extreme conditions.

 

[RogerL]

The truth is simpler !!
European manufacturers design and fit battery trays big enough for the battery required in Northern Scandinavia but simply fit smaller batteries on the same tray in warmer climates further south. By contrast, Japanese manufacturers design and fit the smallest tray because most 4x4 and pickup sales are to warm climates around the world - so the only way they can get the necessary cold weather performance here and further north is to fit an extra battery in parallel because the small tray/space precludes a larger battery.
This may also explain why they fit small basic batteries which don't last in the UK but once they're replaced with a good European battery their cars are fine - poor battery was the ONLY downside I found on my Subaru.

 

[Surfer]

I think Roger may be off beam on this one as my previous vehicle same model etc except 1 year younger only had one battery as it did not have the winter pack. I agree with John's synopsis regarding changing both batteries due to various issues. I need to pick the second battery tomorrow even though the one it is replacing is good. probably keep it as a back up if we ever get aroudn to using pitches without EHU.
BTW even in the tropics it can get below freezing some nights in winter with snow in some areas. After all you get snow on the mountains that are right on the equator. Mt Kilamanjoro!

 

[Sproket]

Have you measured the battery box & then see what is the max size that will fit ?
You might be able to just convert it back to one heavy duty battery ?
Some imported vehicles have smaller battery posts

 

[RogerL]

I think Roger may be off beam on this one as my previous vehicle same model etc except 1 year younger only had one battery as it did not have the winter pack. I agree with John's synopsis regarding changing both batteries due to various issues. I need to pick the second battery tomorrow even though the one it is replacing is good. probably keep it as a back up if we ever get aroudn to using pitches without EHU.
BTW even in the tropics it can get below freezing some nights in winter with snow in some areas. After all you get snow on the mountains that are right on the equator. Mt Kilamanjoro!

Am I off-beam - or have you simply bought two unofficial imports originally spec'd for different markets?
There's a big difference between dropping below zero just at night and Scandinavian winters !!