Bio Diesel

[emmerson2]

i think you will find that on an earlier thread, i gave clive

the cambridge site address, where they prove the co and co2

argument,so now the best scientific site in england ,which by the way was not commissioned by anyone with an interest in any

specific fuel,is not good enough.

so what do you do, quote an lpg site... bravo...why am i not

surprised..... but then why is the government not pushing as

strong as it used to to promote lpg? do they know something

you don't.

Giovanni,I respect your views. All I ask is that you respect mine. It's my piper--if I want him to play "Donald where's yer troosers", it's MY decision.

 

[CliveV]

No Gio - we are not all fools.

As for Government support - What about the Powershift scheme that provides a grant for 80% of the conversion cost. Not a bad use of taxpayers money there I think.

And then there is the BoostLPG campaign that was financed by the DTI initially.

Oh! and did I mention that the fuel duty on LPG is fixed for three years whereas petrol & diesel will go up over the same period?

I do not have a problem with diesel engines or petrol - I am just DELIGHTED with the results of over 100K miles on LPG.

The savings are enormous.

What you fail also to mention is that a diesel engines efficiency can be improved significantly by a tandem LPG system.

And even if the CO2 and CO levels are on a par between Diesel and LPG, those for petrol are way higher. BUT the most important thing compared to a diesel is the virtually nonexistent nitrous oxide emissions and the complete lack of any unburnt hydrocarbons. These two types of emissions being particularly noxious.

I do not use LPG to justify my choice of vehicle and to suggest so is a rather desperate statement Gio!! If I could use a small car (I can't due to what I do) I would still choose a car with LPG. My choice would be a Subaru with a "donut tank" in place of the spare and that internal tyre "go" in the tyres to prevent punctures. Subaru make great cars and have the Powershift Scheme of to a fine art. Friends of ours are on their 5th Subaru and the last two have both been LPG'd. They got a fabulous deal on trade in with the dealer saying he will not have any difficulty selling the car.

So a normal small car that would do probably 40 mpg on petrol would do perhaps 36mpg on LPG. With LPG at just 42p per litre you do not need the brains of an Archbishop to work out the cost saving.

Can I suggest that we should all be able to discuss the relative merits of our favourite fuel types - even have a heated discussion if people want. But please - lets keep the maturity level sufficiently high that we do not allow it to digress into an anti "vehicle type" slanging match.

Stating that I only use LPG because I want to have a 4x4 and that if I had a smaller car I wouldn't need LPG is just plain silly. But the Anti 4x4 brigade is no stranger to silliness.

As I have said earlier - if I didn't regularly tow wacking great bits of kit around I would have a smaller car AND IT WOULD RUN ON LPG!! - It would save me

 

[giovanni_5060838]

clive, finally you admit the co and co2 argument that diesel are

infact in your eyes on par with lpg.... but again off you go,

claiming i am anti 4x4.... who needs to take their blinkers off.

now nox is the far worse poison, is that because YOU SAY SO

 

[giovanni_5060838]

AS FAR AS I AM AWARE, co and co2 are still the main source of

polution, but alas you dwell on that as it doesnot fit into your

argument. small cars? so which subaru are we talking about?

surely not a 2.0 litre model! as this is not small,well it is

compared to a 4.0 litre, but lets just take the cartax bracket

shell we 1500cc or less. hands up ALL those with REAL concerns

for the environment... now hands up all those 1500cc and less,

where owners have gone as far as to have a lpg kit kitted....no?

you see most lpg kits are sold for vehicles over 2500cc.

do you see a pattern? ofcourse you don't,why because again your

argument went to great pains to again mention the money savings,

not the environment, remember this was about the environment.

and no matter how i try to explain it, your argument is more to

do with the pocket...... mine is not to do with large engines or

4x4, but with silly claims about.....well i have already explained it.

 

[mcghee]

you seem to have missed the point that lpg is so cheap because it produces so little pollution.theres not really an argument to be had over that,its a widely accepted fact.

 

[CliveV]

Gio

No point in continuing this - I never said I admitted that LPG produces the same CO & CO2 as diesel!

I said "EVEN IF LPG produced the same CO & CO2" please do not quote was plainly is not there.

I do not LPG does based upon the surveys I have seen. If it was as bad as you say - why is diesel so expensive now (Err! I think it has something to do with a green tax!) and why are the DTI providing grants to get people to convert to LPG.

The size of the car is irrelevant - But I can see there is no reasoning with you. And I am not the one to say it.

 

[emmerson2]

Steady on chaps!! this argument has gone far enough! those of us who use LPG know it is the better fuel for all concerned. Lets leave it at that eh? after all it is, allegedly, the season of goodwill!!!.Merry Christmas.

 

[giovanni_5060838]

clive v, i do like to read you threads on most other subjects,

but really,you are now scaping the barrel.

green tax?

taxation on diesel has been steadly going up for the last decade

mainly because of its market share growing,this inturn has meant

that the tax revenue from petrol has been dropping..do your maths.

greentax? funny really that this government is so out of touch,

but never the less has so many sheep to bla to,that you seem to have forgotten that they had to make a new AA tax bracket,for

emmisions, and if you look at the cars in that catogory, diesels

to the embarrisment of the government, have a strong hold there.

i know you and some others do take this personally, for which i

am sorry, but what planet are you on, where you and others seem

to think its ok to talk environmental friendlyness alongside

the fact,that you use 2 or even 3 times as much resourses,because

its subsidised, by which i mean lpg is dearer than petrol and diesel, but for now does not have a tax burden.

like i said only large engined petrol vehicles have conversion

kits fitted,and how on earth could that be called environmentally

friendly, god knows.

and craig, what is widely known and fact, is that 50% of cars produced last year were diesels.what does that tell you.

oh and clive, the dti giving grants, wow cannot have too many takers or theyd stop it, but then this government gives grants

to illegal immagrants....so what does that tell you.

merry xmas

 

[Lol1]

Giovanni, why are you comparing grants for the Power shift program, which is so popular that it is massively over-subscribed, to grants for illegal immigrants?

I can see your point, as Clive drives around in a large car, therefore it is not environmentally friendly, I do the same in a diesel. However if the guy needs such a vehicle and cannot use another type (for whatever reason) and has taken steps to improve his cars environmental impact, is that not a good thing? I would certainly do the same as Clive if I had a large engine inside a large car used for work and play, the credentials of LPG are clear. What's the environmental friendly solution, do we all tow with pushbikes?

Happy New Year

 

[CliveV]

Thanks for that Lol

Ever the voice of calm reason! I have decided not to respond any more after this on this thread to the more "off the wall" antics.

Seems little point when the "green tax" on diesel has made it more expensive per litre than petrol when only a few years ago diesel was significantly cheaper than petrol as has been stated on this forum many times. And I do not doubt that if LPG continues to be ever more popular - then Gordon will increase the tax take on it!

But it is a shame that most can have a darn good discussion and keep to the the point whilst others go off on tangents. I have never critricised diesel users - in fact I followed one of the new diesel LR3 Discoverys up the hill heading east to Dorchester out of Honiton on Wednesday and this thing just blew me away!

No clouds of blue smoke - the only thing that told me it was an oil burner was the badge!

The way it pulled away up that reasonably severe and steady incline was stunning.

As for illegal immogrants! - I think the original one was Jesus.

Have a great Christmas!!

Look forward to meeting you in the New Year at Easter.

 

[giovanni_5060838]

Thanks for that Lol

Ever the voice of calm reason! I have decided not to respond any more after this on this thread to the more "off the wall" antics.

Seems little point when the "green tax" on diesel has made it more expensive per litre than petrol when only a few years ago diesel was significantly cheaper than petrol as has been stated on this forum many times. And I do not doubt that if LPG continues to be ever more popular - then Gordon will increase the tax take on it!

But it is a shame that most can have a darn good discussion and keep to the the point whilst others go off on tangents. I have never critricised diesel users - in fact I followed one of the new diesel LR3 Discoverys up the hill heading east to Dorchester out of Honiton on Wednesday and this thing just blew me away!

No clouds of blue smoke - the only thing that told me it was an oil burner was the badge!

The way it pulled away up that reasonably severe and steady incline was stunning.

As for illegal immogrants! - I think the original one was Jesus.

Have a great Christmas!!

Look forward to meeting you in the New Year at Easter.

clive v, what are you talking about now!

"jesus,was the first immagrant"!he was a jew and lived ALL his

life in palastine,his homeland.

you say you will not respond, but then do? you say you have nothing against diesels, but say it in such a way as to mean that

i have something against lpg, which i don't. even lol seems to get what i mean on this environment subject,just sorry you cannot. and yes if i needed or maybe one day i will own a large

4x4, but even if it ran on diesel or lpg, i would not claim it to be environmentally friendly, or that I was doing my bit,when

the only environmental friendly bit i would be doing is saving

the paper my money was printed on.....

 

[CliveV]

clive v, what are you talking about now!

"jesus,was the first immagrant"!he was a jew and lived ALL his

life in palastine,his homeland.

you say you will not respond, but then do? you say you have nothing against diesels, but say it in such a way as to mean that

i have something against lpg, which i don't. even lol seems to get what i mean on this environment subject,just sorry you cannot. and yes if i needed or maybe one day i will own a large

4x4, but even if it ran on diesel or lpg, i would not claim it to be environmentally friendly, or that I was doing my bit,when

the only environmental friendly bit i would be doing is saving

the paper my money was printed on.....

yeah yeah - whatever