BMW 330d - 75kg noseweight

[andyharrold]

I am returning to caravanning after a 15 year break.

I am presently totally confused, and this is why.

I have a 330d xdrive which is similar to the 320d version reviewed in August 2020. That review gave the BMW a glowing review and awarded it almost 5 stars combined with a swift Fairway 530.

I am wanting to tow a 2 berth Seville, yet when I enter the details into towcar.info I find that I am over the maximum towball weight limit of 75Kg. The review only mentioned the 75kg in the data sheet. It didn't comment on this in the review.
When I try to tow a Swift 530 things get even worse!

Speaking to people on the Bailey forums 100kg, or even greater, is a more realistic nose weight for the Seville and most vans tbh. and that achieving the magical 75Kg is almost impossible.

Many owners have changed their 330d car because of this.

I pulled out of a sale yesterday with all of the conflicting info running around my head.

So, why the 4.8 stars?

andy

 

[otherclive]

I am returning to caravanning after a 15 year break.

I am presently totally confused, and this is why.

I have a 330d xdrive which is similar to the 320d version reviewed in August 2020. That review gave the BMW a glowing review and awarded it almost 5 stars combined with a swift Fairway 530.

I am wanting to tow a 2 berth Seville, yet when I enter the details into towcar.info I find that I am over the maximum towball weight limit of 75Kg. The review only mentioned the 75kg in the data sheet. It didn't comment on this in the review.
When I try to tow a Swift 530 things get even worse!

Speaking to people on the Bailey forums 100kg, or even greater, is a more realistic nose weight for the Seville and most vans tbh. and that achieving the magical 75Kg is almost impossible.

Many owners have changed their 330d car because of this.

I pulled out of a sale yesterday with all of the conflicting info running around my head.

So, why the 4.8 stars?

andy

What do Bailey specify for the two berth Seville noseweight. You say some forums consider more than 100kg to be realistic, but apart from larger caravans most alko chassis are limited to 100kg anyway. Are the forums talking noseweight unloaded, as many caravans are nose heavy when unloaded, mine is. What is the 330 lowball limit as compared to the 320. they are different cars the X drive has more weight and more will be at the rear end because of the 4WD, so BMW may have compensated by reducing nose load onto the towbar.

Further investigation required to sort out the actuality of the problem.

Try this link

https://www.baileyofbristol.co.uk/touring-caravans/unicorn-series-4/unicorn-series-4-seville/

 

[andyharrold]

320 and 330 both have 75kg limit.

Legally you tow at the lower of van and car I believe

 

[andyharrold]

Forums were talking about being loaded at 100.

 

[otherclive]

320 and 330 both have 75kg limit.

Legally you tow at the lower of van and car I believe

Yes its the lower limit of either. A rule of thumb is that the noseweight onto the car should be between 4-7% of the caravans maximum weight (MTPLM), the higher the better, but not exceeding either manufacturers specified limits. for the car or caravan. What is the caravans MPTLM that you are looking at?

 

[otherclive]

Forums were talking about being loaded at 100.

That would probably be the maximum limit of the caravan Alko chassis, but in your case the BMW towball limit would take precedence. Some will consider 75kg too low, but there is far more to it than just the noseweight onto the car. There how you load the caravan. Does the van have ATC?. BMWs have excellent suspension, handling and ride characteristics. You see many BMWs 3 series towing vans both here and abroad, so do they have tow ball limits significantly higher than 75kg.

In 2013 the BMW 330D Touring was overall winner in the CCC/PCTowcar Awards. This link might give further info on what's out there. The CMHC also publish their list of Overall and Category winners s too.

https://www.thetowcarawards.com/tow-car/bmw-330d-touring/

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/whats-on/awards/towcar-of-the-year/2021-winners/

Of course just because makes/models do not feature often does not mean they aren't any good it can be that the makers do not enter them. You would have to drill down further into the test results in order to find out what other cars were in each category and why they did not win their category. It just gives a bit more breadth of information on which to progress decision making. Nothing is absolute.

 

[andyharrold]

Max laden weight is approx 1440. 330 can tow 1800 so not a problem there.

The laws on towball weight , minimum 4%, is not a factor

Surely, whether a van has ATC, car has good suspension, handling and ride , and that other people tow with them is irrelevant. If it is over 75KG it is illegal. OR is it just guidance?

We are diverging from my original query. The review appears to avoid mentioning this flaw in the wording.

How easy is it to lower a towball weight of 100kg down to 75kg on a medium sized van?

Is towcar.info incorrect?

 

[otherclive]

Max laden weight is approx 1440. 330 can tow 1800 so not a problem there.

The laws on towball weight , minimum 4%, is not a factor

Surely, whether a van has ATC, car has good suspension, handling and ride , and that other people tow with them is irrelevant. If it is over 75KG it is illegal. OR is it just guidance?

We are diverging from my original query. The review appears to avoid mentioning this flaw in the wording.

How easy is it to lower a towball weight of 100kg down to 75kg on a medium sized van?

Is towcar.info incorrect?

I never said that you should exceed the cars towball limit did I? I don't consider my views irrelevant, they are based on experience, which you event had over this last 15 years.

What I am saying is that some people have a noseweight fetish and consider anything below 100kg to be unsatisfactory. What i did say was that other vehicle characteristics combined with how the van is loaded will also influence how satisfactory the outfit is.

Your correct in the 4% minimum towbar limit, but the general guidance is that it can be between 4 and 7% so I was not suggesting anything that conflicts with the legal facts.

Many on this forum have vans that when loaded have to be adjusted to reduce the noseweight to meet the car's limit; mine included. With this van I only carry one bottle, if there are more than two of us the roof box goes on. But these are driven as much by staying within MPTLM as my 80kg noseweight.

You also need to consider payload as some vans have minimal payload. Mine has ear 200kg, i bet the Seville is well below that. Battery, mover etc all come out of payload.

I have always found Towcar.info the best of the crop in its predictions.

 

[andyharrold]

I have found out that the van I was enquiring about has a 95kg rating. The car is only 75kg, so think that I will look for another van.

 

[otherclive]

You will be unlikely to find a caravan with 75 kg. Most are 100 kg. It’s a matter of loading the caravan such that it’s loaded noseweight is suitable for the car. Noseweight is flexibly adjustable by the owner by repositioning load whilst not exceeding the static maximum load on the nose of the caravan or car.

 

[CustardAvenger]

Anything with an ALKO AKS stabiliser hitch will almost certainly have maximum nose weight of 100KG as per the chassis manufacturer.

Getting to the nose weight stipulated by your car's manufacturer is down to the caravanner and the loading of the caravan. You're not going to find a caravan with a default 75KG nose weight as this number is so variable based on configuration between models and user loading; nobody lists this as statistic of the caravan in the UK.

Best way to sort it, is to measure the nose weight of the caravan 'dry' then add your equipment. Re-measure and adjust to achieve the 75KG. Keep weight low-down and avoid the extreme rear of the caravan.

 

[andyharrold]

I know this is a bit of a guess but if we assume that with the caravan contents evenly distributed around the axle low down as per the correct way the weight was 100kg, how easy would it be to get to 75kg?

Awning would be 260 size.
One gas bottle
EHU lead in car or shower at rear.

 

[Beehpee]

I would think it would be very easy all you need to do surely is just distribute the load in the van in such a way as to give you the load your after, get a decent nose weight gauge or a set of bathroom scales and you should find it really easy, I can’t see it being a problem whatsoever, you will no doubt get the nose weight so called experts shortly giving you chapter and verse, the people who have answered you so far, and I don’t include my offering but the likes of those who have replied are people who have years of experience and live in the real world not just quoting figures from manuals.

BP

 

[Beehpee]

If I wanted to I could get the nose weight to read anything I wanted it to 75kg no problem!! 150kg no problem !! it’s just a matter of shifting stuff around.

BP

 

[ProfJohnL]

Max laden weight is approx 1440. 330 can tow 1800 so not a problem there.

The laws on towball weight , minimum 4%, is not a factor

Surely, whether a van has ATC, car has good suspension, handling and ride , and that other people tow with them is irrelevant. If it is over 75KG it is illegal. OR is it just guidance?

We are diverging from my original query. The review appears to avoid mentioning this flaw in the wording.

How easy is it to lower a towball weight of 100kg down to 75kg on a medium sized van?

Is towcar.info incorrect?

Please be clear I am not advocating loading beyond the manufacturers limits . The limits are specified by the manufacturers to protect the mechanical integrity of vehicles, and that should be as good reason as any other not to exceed them.

You seem to be labouring under a misapprehension about the law and nose load and vehicle weights. There is no formal offence of exceeding nose load limits. However it might be considered as part of the evidence towards other offences such as unsafe or overloaded vehicle.

Having enough nose load applied to the cars tow ball is necessary to maintain natural control. There are endless debates about how much nose load you need, but no one can specify precisely how much you will need, as its all depends on YOUR combination of the tow vehicle and the trailer and how they're loaded and driven. What might be good enough for one driver might not be enough for another - However there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that points to the benefit of keeping a nose load in the of 75% or more of the available mechanical limits. The caravan industry does suggest using a nose load of 5 to 7% of the caravans MTPLM, provided it does not exceed the nose load limits.

As far as the authorities are concerned all they can actually measure for compliance is the load on each axle. Armed with that information both hitched and unhitched that can determine the actual nose load of an outfit but they have no specific criteria for determining if the nose load is lawful or not, except that if the nose load was causing other observable issues making the outfit unsafe/dangerous.

I hope you realise that the actual nose load of a caravan is a variable, and it is determined by how you load the caravan. You are expected to trim the nose load to your chosen value by stowing items either in front of the axle to increase the load or behind the axle to reduce the nose load. Care should be taken to keep as much of the heavy items as close to the axle as possible to minimise Yaw Inertia.

 

[Woodentop]

It would seem there are no U4 Seville owners on here else they would not make the comments they are.

First check that the BMW is rated to tow - a few models are not. Look on the plate - probably on the nearside B pillar - and make sure it has the two weight numbers at the top. If it does not then the vehicle is not rated for towing.

If it is rated then you have no problems with the Seville. As it has the gas locker at the back right next to the cooker, and the battery and toilet are also behind the axle you will have great difficulty getting anywhere near 75Kg!! - and I speak as a U4 Seville owner.

When we got it home from collection I thought it seemed a bit light when I uncoupled it, and when I moved it backwards on the mover and took my finger of the button the van stopped and the jockey wheel bounced into the air. Without going into great description, the best we have managed on the nose is 53Kg, and even with my 76Kg son standing inside as far forward as possibly we could still only get 74Kg.
When we took it back to the dealer and I showed the ServMan where we had problems he got into the caravan (unhitched and facing down a slight slope) and I stood outside pointing things out. One issue was the cooker and when he walked towards the back the caravan started to tip up. He got out PDQ I can tell you.

Also to the OP beware that there is insufficient support on the nearside bed, so if you run as two singles be prepared for it to collapse. Bailey's answer was to tell the dealer to find a solution!!!!

Otherwise a nice little van. Yes the bathroom is a bit awkward because of the position of the toilet, but otherwise we are very happy with ours. The Alde heating is superb although there is (as ever) a wait between morning showers for the water to reheat.

And before anyone starts telling me about caravan loading, we have been caravanners for almost 40 years so do know a tad or two about what we are doing........

 

[andyharrold]

You are right. I have gone to task on this. I wasn't sure on the legal side of the limit.
I realise that trimming is part of the game, and understand what has to be done, but I didn't want to buy a van that meant that everything had to be placed aft of the axle to achieve a suitable figure.

 

[Lutz]

I have never heard of any official roadside check of noseweight being carried out. However, if the noseweight exceeds the manufacturer's limit then it is quite likely that the car's rear axle load limit is exceeded, too, and that would be an offence which would be the subject of a roadside check. Unless noseweight alone is exceeded by a really substantial amount, and I mean something like twice the limit, thus making it enough to qualify as a dangerous loading condition, exceeding it only affects the manufacturer's product liability.
However, as others have pointed out, any desired noseweight can be achieved by appropriate payload weight distribution. If it means having to place more weight aft of the axle, so be it.

 

[andyharrold]

It would seem there are no U4 Seville owners on here else they would not make the comments they are.

First check that the BMW is rated to tow - a few models are not. Look on the plate - probably on the nearside B pillar - and make sure it has the two weight numbers at the top. If it does not then the vehicle is not rated for towing.

If it is rated then you have no problems with the Seville. As it has the gas locker at the back right next to the cooker, and the battery and toilet are also behind the axle you will have great difficulty getting anywhere near 75Kg!! - and I speak as a U4 Seville owner.

When we got it home from collection I thought it seemed a bit light when I uncoupled it, and when I moved it backwards on the mover and took my finger of the button the van stopped and the jockey wheel bounced into the air. Without going into great description, the best we have managed on the nose is 53Kg, and even with my 76Kg son standing inside as far forward as possibly we could still only get 74Kg.
When we took it back to the dealer and I showed the ServMan where we had problems he got into the caravan (unhitched and facing down a slight slope) and I stood outside pointing things out. One issue was the cooker and when he walked towards the back the caravan started to tip up. He got out PDQ I can tell you.

Also to the OP beware that there is insufficient support on the nearside bed, so if you run as two singles be prepared for it to collapse. Bailey's answer was to tell the dealer to find a solution!!!!

Otherwise a nice little van. Yes the bathroom is a bit awkward because of the position of the toilet, but otherwise we are very happy with ours. The Alde heating is superb although there is (as ever) a wait between morning showers for the water to reheat.

And before anyone starts telling me about caravan loading, we have been caravanners for almost 40 years so do know a tad or two about what we are doing........

Thanks very much for your info. Some interesting info. Unfortunately I cannot afford a S4. It was a S1 that I was looking at. Hence the gas bottles up front, heavy duty aluminium construction and a 95kg nose weight!

I will check the car. That would be the ultimate non starter, if it was unable to tow!

 

[andyharrold]

It makes you wonder why a car with the name Touring should be designed with such a low tow weight.

 

[Lutz]

All cars that are type approved for towing will have a noseweight limit that is sufficient for the load actually being towed. Such is the law. I therefore don't see the problem. Any noseweight that exceeds the manufacturer's limit can always be trimmed to suit.

 

[otherclive]

It makes you wonder why a car with the name Touring should be designed with such a low tow weight.

Touring isn’t specific to a caravan it encompasses more than towing a trailer. Why do you say it has a low tow weight? Which weight are you referring too? Noseweight or towing weight? As has been said you can legally tow to the cars maximum specified towing limit. But generally advice in U.K. is 85% of kerbweight going higher as experience is gained, but not recommended above 100%. This is because caravans are ungainly vehicles subjected to cross winds, vehicular aerodynamic disturbance, road surface perturbation etc not to mention loading inadequacy and driver approach.

The post above explaining how one member (Woodentop) has difficulty even getting up to his noseweight shows that with care and attention it is possible to enjoy the hobby safely when towing.

 

[andyharrold]

I was referring to the nose weight.

 

[Lutz]

I was referring to the nose weight.

But adjusting the noseweight down is no different adjusting it up. I suspect that you are reluctant to reduce the noseweight by adding weight at the back because you have heard that such a move would not be conducive to stability, but that's exactly what the manufacturer would also do to achieve the same result, and you wouldn't even notice because the caravan will have been designed like that right from the start.

 

[otherclive]

I was referring to the nose weight.

If you look at the CMHC 2014 Towcar of the Year data you will see several category winners with 75 kg noseweight. There is Jaguar XF saloon, Jaguar XF Sportbrake, Ssassyong Korando and VW Jetta. The Skoda Superb 170ps 4WD is 80kg and prior to my Subaru I had one of those. It towed brilliantly with acres of space for luggage dogs and passengers. The BMW would be in good company.

My present van is nose heavy. I removed the rear bunks to release payload which made it worse. When I collected it I measured noseweight and for the trip home there was water in the toilet and flush tank plus a 10 litre container in the toilet. It towed fine. For touring I never load anything in the front seat lockers. Heavier stuff goes in a locker behind the axle and stuff goes on the floor. I can achieve the cars 80 kg noseweight and am very happy with how it tows. It’s all a matter of “ tuning the system”. 😀