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Business as usual?

Sep 24, 2008
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This morning whilst on the phone to my Son and looking at the road outside could not believe the amount of traffic coming by. Where on earth are they all going, business vehicles yes but all those cars.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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This morning whilst on the phone to my Son and looking at the road outside could not believe the amount of traffic coming by. Where on earth are they all going, business vehicles yes but all those cars.
Not having supermarkets to queue outside of they are going to B&Q.
 
May 7, 2012
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In lock down but when we sit out we can normally hear the nearby motorway but it is certainly very quiet at the moment.
 
Sep 5, 2016
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Went in town this morning just to one shop with the amount of people about it was just like a normal Saturday apart from the pubs being shut, no idea what our local police are doing,
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Went in town this morning just to one shop with the amount of people about it was just like a normal Saturday apart from the pubs being shut, no idea what our local police are doing,
It’s not illegal for folks to go into town
as only those shops deemed “essential” should be open. Where folks could be criticised is if they hang around chatting or don’t follow social distancing guidelines.
 
Sep 5, 2016
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It’s not illegal for folks to go into town
as only those shops deemed “essential” should be open. Where folks could be criticised is if they hang around chatting or don’t follow social distancing guidelines.
Thank you OC for pulling me up again,
 
Jun 20, 2005
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The A419 link between M4 and M5 has been extremely quiet again today. Even the HGVs are few. In the local High Street still very quiet. Shops only allowing one or two in at a time.They are small 😎. I see in today’s papers there are some saying lift the lockdown and don’t listen to the boffins. Someone tell me who the hell I should listen to please😲😲😲
 
Apr 20, 2009
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The A419 link between M4 and M5 has been extremely quiet again today. Even the HGVs are few. In the local High Street still very quiet. Shops only allowing one or two in at a time.They are small 😎. I see in today’s papers there are some saying lift the lockdown and don’t listen to the boffins. Someone tell me who the hell I should listen to please😲😲😲
Dusty listen to your heart and no one else, if you feel as I do and want to at least try and stay safe for a while longer your heart will tell you. Stay in and stay safe.
Just pouring my first pint of the night :beercheers:
 
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Jun 20, 2005
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Fully agree Kev. We have been very good. My fear is that if we are not careful and relax too soon there will be a second wave of Covid-19 far worse than today’s.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I take my hat off to the workforce that has been able to convert so many exhibition spaces into "Nightingale" hospitals designed to treat Covid-19 patients. Presently both London and Birmingham have operational units, and others around the country will be ready in a few days.

What is not ready though are the numbers of staff required to operate them, and apparently the contingency is that staff from other hospitals will need to be deployed to make them work.

So we have the space, but not enough staff. It is therefore quite a good thing that so far I believe less than 50 patients have been admitted to London's and none to the Birmingham one. So far the NHS has just about managed the patients within the normal hospitals, and that is also amazing.

It does beg the question, " will we actually need the Nightingale Hospitals?" It would seem the lock down measures have been fairly successful, and the predicted numbers of patients have not grown as quickly as expected. This is of course great news but there is a real risk it may spawn complacency about the risk of spreading the infection. The present measures have starved the virus of new victims which is why the rates of infection seem to be slowing. But the infection is still out there in the community, and it will not be eradicated by the present measures alone.

There is a real danger that when the restrictions start to be relaxed, previously uninfected people will come back into circulation, and judging by the short history of the virus it will readily find its way to begin a second wave of infection, and I suspect the same pattern will repeat each time we use a lock down. Providing nothing else changes, I would expect each subsequent wave to have lower numbers of patients.

The game changer would be if we can manufacture an effective vaccine.

However there are some other factors that may circumvent the benefits of a vaccine. We need to be able to make the vaccine available world wide. Such schemes have worked for smallpox.

We are still not sure if having antibodies to the infection is effective at preventing a second dose of the virus. There have been a few reports (unsubstantiated) that some people have survived one dose, but now seem to be succumbing again. We don't know if its the same strain or a newly mutated form. and we also don't know if the reinfections are as severe.

It is in the nature of viruses to adapt, and there is debate about how likely it is that Covid-19 might mutate enough to render previous acquired antibodies are capable of preventing reinfection to a modified strain.

So do we need the nightingales? I would suggest we do. It may be appropriate to use the Nightingale units as the only units treating Covid patients, allowing the established hospitals a chance to restart some of their belayed services.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Prof
thanks for the post. Don’t forget also that the NHS came to an agreement with the private sector that private hospitals would also be used for non Covid 19 patients and procedures. But the pre pandemic shortage of 40000 nurses and 3000 A&E doctors in 2017 plus much reduced GP numbers too, makes staffing the extended facilities a challenge wherever they be deployed.
 
Sep 26, 2018
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We have to remember that NOTHING has been done to combat ( as in treat/prevent) as yet. Lockdown has only stopped the NHS getting overwhelmed (thank goodness). The virus is still as virulent and easily transmitted... So any relaxation in my view stands a strong chance of starting an upswing in the number of cases, ITU usage, deaths etc...
 
May 7, 2012
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I do agree the Nightingale hospitals were a sensible precaution although the one here has not been used so far. My daughter works in the NHS , there have been several changes in the service that are not apparent.
 
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Parksy

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Nov 12, 2009
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I do agree the Nightingale hospitals were a sensible precaution although the one here has not been used so far. My daughter works in the NHS , there have been several changes in the service that are not apparent.
That's quite true.
My daughter in law is an NHS hospital theater nurse, but one of the two main operating theaters has been closed and converted to a ward for treating Covid 19 patients and her shift patterns have changed to cope with the extra work.
She told me in a video phone call earlier this week that she regularly sees patients admitted who are dead two or three days later.
Be in no doubt that a relaxation of lockdown could easily bring about another surge in deaths until a remedy is found.
 
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Mar 14, 2005
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We will be watching what happens all around the globe, especially where different strategies are being employed, As I pointed out in another thread, there is no instruction manual for managing Covid-19, it has peculiarities that are presenting new scenarios. We must also be aware that what might work in one county may not work every where, due to density of populations, age demographics, and there are hints that different ethnicity may have a greater risk of infection than others, so there is no one size fits all solution.

I'm certain given the benefit of hind sight we could all pick holes in the strategies that have been applied in different places. I also sure we could place some blame on governments for the unavailability of supplies, and it will show up some countries where they may seem to have been better prepared, but the picture could have been quite differnt if the crisis was from a different pathogen.

This is still a constantly evolving pandemic, and sadly there will be winners and losers. Rather than spending time and effort in pointing the finger of blame, we should be rallying together to see what positive things we can do. Some may work and some may not but regardless of the outcome of each scheme it helps to build a knowledge base.

There will be a time at some point in the future, to review the whole crisis and to learn from it,
 
Sep 24, 2008
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Every time a minister say's thank you , we always say you should be around here. From 0630 till 1900 there is constant flow of vehicles. lots of motorcycles including. Yet at the beginning I said on a thread how quite it is.
 
Nov 16, 2015
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These Nightingale hospitals as said before rrequire the Nursing Staff and the dctors, but also require accommodation for them to stay and also food supplys for them. Just the buildings are not enough. We are in the vulnerable , clich, So self locked in until 16th June. 12 weeks more than willing to stay at home, although things can get tense. IMG_0270.jpeg
 
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Nov 11, 2009
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These Nightingale hospitals as said before rrequire the Nursing Staff and the dctors, but also require accommodation for them to stay and also food supplys for them. Just the buildings are not enough. We are in the vulnerable , clich, So self locked in until 16th June. 12 weeks more than willing to stay at home, although things can get tense. View attachment 236
The one on Bristol will use UWE on campus accommodation fir those requiring it.
 
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Jun 20, 2005
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I take my hat off to the workforce that has been able to convert so many exhibition spaces into "Nightingale" hospitals designed to treat Covid-19 patients. Presently both London and Birmingham have operational units, and others around the country will be ready in a few days.

What is not ready though are the numbers of staff required to operate them, and apparently the contingency is that staff from other hospitals will need to be deployed to make them work.

So we have the space, but not enough staff. It is therefore quite a good thing that so far I believe less than 50 patients have been admitted to London's and none to the Birmingham one. So far the NHS has just about managed the patients within the normal hospitals, and that is also amazing.

It does beg the question, " will we actually need the Nightingale Hospitals?" It would seem the lock down measures have been fairly successful, and the predicted numbers of patients have not grown as quickly as expected. This is of course great news but there is a real risk it may spawn complacency about the risk of spreading the infection. The present measures have starved the virus of new victims which is why the rates of infection seem to be slowing. But the infection is still out there in the community, and it will not be eradicated by the present measures alone.

There is a real danger that when the restrictions start to be relaxed, previously uninfected people will come back into circulation, and judging by the short history of the virus it will readily find its way to begin a second wave of infection, and I suspect the same pattern will repeat each time we use a lock down. Providing nothing else changes, I would expect each subsequent wave to have lower numbers of patients.

The game changer would be if we can manufacture an effective vaccine.

However there are some other factors that may circumvent the benefits of a vaccine. We need to be able to make the vaccine available world wide. Such schemes have worked for smallpox.

We are still not sure if having antibodies to the infection is effective at preventing a second dose of the virus. There have been a few reports (unsubstantiated) that some people have survived one dose, but now seem to be succumbing again. We don't know if its the same strain or a newly mutated form. and we also don't know if the reinfections are as severe.

It is in the nature of viruses to adapt, and there is debate about how likely it is that Covid-19 might mutate enough to render previous acquired antibodies are capable of preventing reinfection to a modified strain.

So do we need the nightingales? I would suggest we do. It may be appropriate to use the Nightingale units as the only units treating Covid patients, allowing the established hospitals a chance to restart some of their belayed services.
Well said Prof.

the real worry is that a let up on lockdown prematurely will without doubt result in a double up of infection along the herding lines. Realistically I cannot see pubs and public places reopening before September at the earliest. From what I read an effective vaccine is a long way off. Not this year I suspect.
There is a bonus here. The A&E depts have no longer been misused by the little cut and splinter brigade! Hopefully some lessons long term will be learnt.
 
Sep 5, 2016
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I'm not happy with the NHS my wife has been waiting since last November to see an Orthorpedic specialist two week ago they cancelled her appointment at our small hospital so what is this specialist doing now don't tell me they are on the frontline also all the cancer appointments being cancelled, not impressed one bit, like the Prof says get all the corona patients in the Nightingales and the hospitals can operate normally, if they ever can,
 
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Nov 16, 2015
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I had a heart CT scan two weeks ago in a private hospital unit in milton Keynes and the specialist said to me he was due to go into the main milton Keynes hospital , on the ICU wards in the afternoon.
I am very impressed.
 

Parksy

Moderator
Nov 12, 2009
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I'm not happy with the NHS my wife has been waiting since last November to see an Orthorpedic specialist two week ago they cancelled her appointment at our small hospital so what is this specialist doing now don't tell me they are on the frontline also all the cancer appointments being cancelled, not impressed one bit, like the Prof says get all the corona patients in the Nightingales and the hospitals can operate normally, if they ever can,
We are slap in the middle of what's being reported as the biggest and most catastrophic pandemic in recent history.
Hospitals are at full stretch dealing not only with Covid 19 cases but with the myriad health issues that affect non Covid patients.
My daughter in law is an NHS theater nurse, and along with her colleagues she has been redeployed to look after Covid 19 cases, and a significant number of those admitted die alone, scared and fighting for their last breath.
Orthopaedic specialists are not exempt from redeployment, the theaters have been converted to wards with limited theater space for emergency cases.
According to my daughter in law who I speak with via video phone messaging, the very last place that anybody would want to be while this is going on is anywhere near a hospital.
Cancer patients are said to be extremely vulnerable and isolation is considered to be the safest strategy according to health experts.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Camel

Where have you been for the last two months? Health services all over the world are facing unprecedented pressures due to the Covid pandemic. People are falling ill with a life threatening infection. The health services are stretched to near breaking point, and are doing an incredible job at saving lives.

Virtually all none urgent medical appointments have been cancelled not only becasue many staff have been redeployed to help with the covid effort, but also to reduce the possibility of fuelling the cross infection of more people.

I find your comment incredibly disrespectful of the amazing commitment that our NHS staff have shown, by putting themselves into close proximity with this contagion- -would you go and work on a covid ward?

OP appointments involve a lot more staff than you might imagine, and if the background staff have been deployed to help with life saving work, it does mean even the most highly skilled specialists may not be able to carry out scheduled non life threatening consultations.

I don't want anyone to suffer, but at times like this we might need to consider others in greater need, ahead of ourselves.
 
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