Can Honda tow this lightweight caravan?

[bib]

Hi everybody,

We are a couple looking to buy a 3 berth braked caravan, as well as a car able to do the towing. We are planning to tow more than average, about twice a month around Ireland (6-7 days per month).
After a bit of research, we found a caravan with MIRO of 650 and a MLTPM of 750 kg as well as a nose weight 70kg.
We are looking to purchase a Honda CR-V 1.6L diesel with 300Nm torque. Towing capacity is 1500 -1600 kg and the weight is apx 1600 kg. From our understanding the car is within the parameters to tow the caravan. We have a couple of questions from people who are more experienced at towing and caravans:
- would a bigger engine(2.l) and more torque power cover us better considering that we will be towing often?
-did anybody else tow with Honda CR V 1.6 l diesel and how was their experience?
-Does it make sense to have a 2.l diesel to cover us on longer term, since we are waiting a baby and our load necessities would be higher
Any info would be highly appreciated

 

[otherclive]

The Honda 1.6 litre would have no problem towing your proposed caravan, even when the extra weight of a child and child’s kit is taken in to account. It would be a well balanced outfit given the cars weight and the light weight of the caravan.

Good luck with your travels and welcome to the Forum.

 

[bib]

The Honda 1.6 litre would have no problem towing your proposed caravan, even when the extra weight of a child and child’s kit is taken in to account. It would be a well balanced outfit given the cars weight and the light weight of the caravan.

Good luck with your travels and welcome to the Forum.

Thanks for the answer. Would it be any different for towing regularly, about 2-3 weekends a month? I am thinking on the strain on the car

 

[otherclive]

Thanks for the answer. Would it be any different for towing regularly, about 2-3 weekends a month? I am thinking on the strain on the car

The car is well able to tow to your itinerary just keep up with its maintenance and see if additional oil changes may be required. But I doubt it with that weight caravan.i towed a heavier caravan with a 1.8 Mondeo 80bhp all over U.K.

 

[Woodentop]

A few points:
Are you UK or RoI based because the rules on towing my be different;
It would be useful to know the make and model of the caravan - those weight figures seem very light.
Looking at the figures. as torque can vary between models of the same range most people work on engine power. A useful guideline is a minimum of 40bhp per tonne of train weight.

You also need to do some homework on the three weight limits that matter. You have the maximum weigh that the tow vehicle can take on the chassis; the maximum weight the towbar can take, and the weight of what you tow. The lowest of these three is the overall limiting factor, so if your car can tow only 1200kg then you cannot tow a caravan legally with an MPTLM or greater than 1200kg. There are widely misunderstood guidelines that the caravan should not weigh more than 85% of the kerb weight of the tug, but these are only a guide for people who are new to towing. As you gain experience so you can get nearer to 100%.

There will be plenty more replies

 

[RogerL]

A few points:
Are you UK or RoI based because the rules on towing my be different;
It would be useful to know the make and model of the caravan - those weight figures seem very light.
Looking at the figures. as torque can vary between models of the same range most people work on engine power. A useful guideline is a minimum of 40bhp per tonne of train weight.

You also need to do some homework on the three weight limits that matter. You have the maximum weigh that the tow vehicle can take on the chassis; the maximum weight the towbar can take, and the weight of what you tow. The lowest of these three is the overall limiting factor, so if your car can tow only 1200kg then you cannot tow a caravan legally with an MPTLM or greater than 1200kg. There are widely misunderstood guidelines that the caravan should not weigh more than 85% of the kerb weight of the tug, but these are only a guide for people who are new to towing. As you gain experience so you can get nearer to 100%.

There will be plenty more replies

The Freedom range of caravans fit those weight figures quoted by the OP

 

[Beachball]

The Honda CR-V 1.6L Diesel should have no problems with the caravan and the extra weight of a child and kit so good luck with your holidays and welcome to the forum .

 

[Woodentop]

The Freedom range of caravans fit those weight figures quoted by the OP

With respect I answered the questions and comments made by the OP. I can see nothing about any particular caravan product.

 

[otherclive]

With respect I answered the questions and comments made by the OP. I can see nothing about any particular caravan product.

You can tow a caravan whose MTPLM exceeds the cars towing limit, providing you don’t load the caravan beyond the cars towing limit. I’ve done it in order to ferry a friends caravan which was only partially loaded.

Torque is a perfectly okay parameter. I’ve had two cars one petrol 150bhp, one diesel 150bhp and guess which one made for the best towing experience. The petrol revved its nuts off. Diesel just slogged away.

 

[RogerL]

With respect I answered the questions and comments made by the OP. I can see nothing about any particular caravan product.

I was just commenting on your post "those weight figures seem very light" to confirm there are lightweight caravans available in the range posted by the OP.

 

[RogerL]

You can tow a caravan whose MTPLM exceeds the cars towing limit, providing you don’t load the caravan beyond the cars towing limit. I’ve done it in order to ferry a friends caravan which was only partially loaded.

That's true in the UK but not necessarily in other countries.

 

[otherclive]

That's true in the UK but not necessarily in other countries.

I know as places like France have speed limits that are based on plated GVW and MTPLM not on actual weights. So even an unloaded outfit could be caught out if its combination of plated weights exceeds the limiting weight for the speed limits. UK licence regulations for towing had a similar system. But we digress😂

 

[Lutz]

You can tow a caravan whose MTPLM exceeds the cars towing limit, providing you don’t load the caravan beyond the cars towing limit. I’ve done it in order to ferry a friends caravan which was only partially loaded.

The car‘s towing limit is not a legally enforceable limit. It is only the limit for which the manufacturer accepts product liability. The legal constraint on what one can tow is the gross train weight and that is the maximum permissible sum of all actual axle loads, not the sum of the GVW of the towcar and the MTPLM of the caravan, which could be more. A car loaded up to its GVW before hitching the caravan would be overweight when the caravan is attached.

 

[Gafferbill]

......the OP appears to be starting from a blank sheet of paper.
I would not contemplate such a light and probably small caravan with virtually no load carrying ability.
Within five years and maybe a larger growing family a larger caravan with more space will be needed.
I'd be going for a larger car........eg VW Passat estate or a personal choice.
Larger caravan to suite....there is a wide choice.

 

[otherclive]

......the OP appears to be starting from a blank sheet of paper.
I would not contemplate such a light and probably small caravan with virtually no load carrying ability.
Within five years and maybe a larger growing family a larger caravan with more space will be needed.
I'd be going for a larger car........eg VW Passat estate or a personal choice.
Larger caravan to suite....there is a wide choice.

Perhaps budget might be a factor, or storage. The CRV has good load volume and takes a roof box if required. It’s fine to recommend a bigger more expensive outfit but the OP has reasons and micro vans even with acknowledged limitations can still enable people to enjoy the outdoors.

 

[bib]

A few points:
Are you UK or RoI based because the rules on towing my be different;
It would be useful to know the make and model of the caravan - those weight figures seem very light.
Looking at the figures. as torque can vary between models of the same range most people work on engine power. A useful guideline is a minimum of 40bhp per tonne of train weight.

You also need to do some homework on the three weight limits that matter. You have the maximum weigh that the tow vehicle can take on the chassis; the maximum weight the towbar can take, and the weight of what you tow. The lowest of these three is the overall limiting factor, so if your car can tow only 1200kg then you cannot tow a caravan legally with an MPTLM or greater than 1200kg. There are widely misunderstood guidelines that the caravan should not weigh more than 85% of the kerb weight of the tug, but these are only a guide for people who are new to towing. As you gain experience so you can get nearer to 100%.

There will be plenty more replies

Thanks for the guidelines. RoI based. Freedom caravan

 

[Mel]

Hello bib. Welcome to the forum. Not wishing to influence your choice of van- the Freedom vans have a lot in their favour; but consensus on here is that you could tow a slightly heavier van. Knowing this may well give you more choices. Enjoy your van shopping and remember not to believe everything a dealer tells you 😀
Mel

 

[bib]

Hello bib. Welcome to the forum. Not wishing to influence your choice of van- the Freedom vans have a lot in their favour; but consensus on here is that you could tow a slightly heavier van. Knowing this may well give you more choices. Enjoy your van shopping and remember not to believe everything a dealer tells you 😀
Mel

Thanks for the answer. We like the minimalistic style and a smaller caravan would be easier to tow for me (no towing experience) Besides that, heavier caravan means a more powerfull car and since we use it for commuting too, we figure it out(so far) that for a 1.6l, max 2.0 l diesel car we would not have to break the bank for fuel cost and it would allow us to tow safely too.

 

[otherclive]

Thanks for the answer. We like the minimalistic style and a smaller caravan would be easier to tow for me (no towing experience) Besides that, heavier caravan means a more powerfull car and since we use it for commuting too, we figure it out(so far) that for a 1.6l, max 2.0 l diesel car we would not have to break the bank for fuel cost and it would allow us to tow safely too.

Thanks for the feedback, and I fully understand your logic. If after some time you feel a larger caravan would be nice, there are suitable options available well within the towing capacity of your car. Our last van was a Sprite Musketeer TD with a MTPLM of 1300 kg and a payload of 190 kg. We bought. It after a three year gap and whilst it didn’t have fixed beds, or separate shower we enjoyed our trips out just as much as when we had heavier and larger caravans. It did us fine with two dogs and a teenage granddaughter.

Enjoy your new hobby.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Bib, Congratulations on the forthcoming birth and thank you for the well considered question(s) you have posted.

You seem to have decided on the Honda which as far as I know is well regarded for its build and reliability as well as both as a solo and tow vehicle.

I presume the engine power and torque figures you have quoted are correct and as such they will provide more than adequate towing performance. Historically petrol engines were basically the only engines available in the UK up until the 1980's and there were plenty of caravans being towed by vehicles with less than 80 HP, Of course when towing the added mass of the caravan will blunt performance, but realistically today, how frequently can all these super high powered cars actually use the performance they are capable of? In reality you don't need a sub 10 second 0 to 60 accelerating vehicle in regular traffic. Something far more sedate is perfectly usable, as traffic speed is unusually controlled by the bus or HGV ahead or just good sense driving.

From about 1980 the popularity of Diesels came to the front, and yes their power delivery economy and ruggedness lent its practicalities to towing. Since the turn of the century with a focus on fuel efficiency the plethora of new small petrol power units enhanced by a turbo have proven that petrol can provide diesel like power and torque from these units. and where as 2.0 litres engines used to be the sweet spot, these have been superseded by smaller units as small as 1.4L still capable of making 150BHP!

Now admittedly their power delivery and torque curves are different to diesels, and they do tend to run at higher RPM, but you have to trust the manufacturers who have made massive strides in reliability in recent years.

I don't think you need to be concerned about your choice of tow vehicle, it will handle 650kg trailer with no great effort. and it will give you some scope to consider heavier caravans.

You will need to see the data late on the actual vehicle which will provide you with four maximum load limits in the following sequence:-
Gross Vehicle Mass , (solo vehicle )
Gross Train Mass, (Combined tow vehicle and trailer)
Front Axle Load
and Rear Axle Load.
These are all Legal Upper limits and must never be exceeded.

Logically the difference between GTM - GVM would represent the heaviest trailer the tow vehicle can tug, and many (but not all) tow vehicle manufacturers will use this calculation to determine the recommended maximum towed mass figure for the vehicle. Purely for simplicity if you choose a trailer whose MTPLM does not exceed this calculated figure and you observe it correctly you should be legal as far as weights/mass are concerned.

Some manufacturers set their recommended towed weight figures based on the unladen mass of the tow vehicle rather than the GTM-GVM, and this practice can increase the apparent Max towed mass limit, but the driver must be aware that for every kg added to the tow vehicle over its Unladen Mass, the same number of Kg must be subtracted from the stated towed mass limit for the trailer to ensue the Gross Train Mass is not exceeded.

Caravan choice is very subjective and only the caravanner can establish if the layout is suitable for their needs. But I would suggest you do consider some larger caravans (within the Honda's towed mass limit) becasue you could be amazed how much more Babies can need. I know from experience.

Good Luck

 

[Woodentop]

......the OP appears to be starting from a blank sheet of paper.
I would not contemplate such a light and probably small caravan with virtually no load carrying ability.
Within five years and maybe a larger growing family a larger caravan with more space will be needed.
I'd be going for a larger car........eg VW Passat estate or a personal choice.
Larger caravan to suite....there is a wide choice.

I would totally agree with Bill. We have had three Passat estates - two 140bhp and the last one 150bhp - and they have been superb throughout. As we are now - shall we say no longer young - we changed this time to a Skoda Karoq 2L TDi 150bhp Sportline. It has the advantage of sitting higher so one can step out rather than climb out as with the Passat. However the Passat is significantly more roomy (even though the same chassis and essentially the same engine) and can carry both a bigger and longer load and pull more weight. Whichever way round a VW, Skoda, or (if you can afford it) an Audi will give much more pleasure in the long run. Seat are good but tend to be aimed at the sporty market and unless you go for the bigger SUV they can be a bit tiring to drive.
For the record we get 50+mpg local running with the Karoq, and have had mid 60's on longer runs. Towing with the Karoq? We had a Bailey Unicorn S4 Seville weighing 1450kg and got 28 on main roads and 32+ on motorways.

 

[otherclive]

I would totally agree with Bill. We have had three Passat estates - two 140bhp and the last one 150bhp - and they have been superb throughout. As we are now - shall we say no longer young - we changed this time to a Skoda Karoq 2L TDi 150bhp Sportline. It has the advantage of sitting higher so one can step out rather than climb out as with the Passat. However the Passat is significantly more roomy (even though the same chassis and essentially the same engine) and can carry both a bigger and longer load and pull more weight. Whichever way round a VW, Skoda, or (if you can afford it) an Audi will give much more pleasure in the long run. Seat are good but tend to be aimed at the sporty market and unless you go for the bigger SUV they can be a bit tiring to drive.
For the record we get 50+mpg local running with the Karoq, and have had mid 60's on longer runs. Towing with the Karoq? We had a Bailey Unicorn S4 Seville weighing 1450kg and got 28 on main roads and 32+ on motorways.

The Passat is an excellent car, but if the OP did decide to look at an estate car don’t rule out the Skoda Superb. We had a 2 litre Superb diesel auto 4WD estate and it put our previous XC 70 into the shade for driving, and load carrying, plus very economical too. But the OP has considered the CRV giving the desired mix for solo and towing and whatever ones likes or dislikes the CRV is regularly at or near the top of JD Power owner surveys but I cannot recall seeing many VAG cars anywhere near the top.

 

[bib]

Thanks for the feedback, and I fully understand your logic. If after some time you feel a larger caravan would be nice, there are suitable options available well within the towing capacity of your car. Our last van was a Sprite Musketeer TD with a MTPLM of 1300 kg and a payload of 190 kg. We bought. It after a three year gap and whilst it didn’t have fixed beds, or separate shower we enjoyed our trips out just as much as when we had heavier and larger caravans. It did us fine with two dogs and a teenage granddaughter.

Enjoy your new hobby.

What car did you use for towing it?

 

[bib]

The Passat is an excellent car, but if the OP did decide to look at an estate car don’t rule out the Skoda Superb. We had a 2 litre Superb diesel auto 4WD estate and it put our previous XC 70 into the shade for driving, and load carrying, plus very economical too. But the OP has considered the CRV giving the desired mix for solo and towing and whatever ones likes or dislikes the CRV is regularly at or near the top of JD Power owner surveys but I cannot recall seeing many VAG cars anywhere near the top.

I've actaully considered estate cars and I know Octavia, Superb are great options, as well as Passat. There are many more outthere.
We've decided on an SUV for better ground clearance. Since I only had Toyotas (call it old school or just addicted to durability, and reliability, even though it might well be disputed or an overstatement ) and my wife owned only Japonese brands too, we've just considered a CR-V 1.6 and RAV4 2.0L.

 

[otherclive]

What car did you use for towing it?

Three cars actually. Subaru Forester SJ 150 bhp petrol non turbo. We bought it not intending to go back to caravans. It handled the van very well but being CVT and low torque it revved to high for my liking. Then a 2014 Suberb estate. DSG 4WD with 2 litre diesel output 170 bhp. Lovely to drive, very economical and so much luggage volume and good legroom in front and back. I’m 6ft 4 inch. But the chance of another Subaru SJ Forester came along an XT 2 litre turbo petrol cvt with 238 bhp. Chalk and cheese compared to its petrol cousin. Superb and Octavia well regarded tow cars and we’re repeated winners of the Towcar if the Year awards.

This was the Skoda and lightweight Sprite 1300 kg MTPLM outfit


PS edit my 150 bhp Subaru non turbo petrol developed 200nm torque, wheras the 238bhp XT developed 350nm so your proposed Honda diesel at 300Nm sits well above my first Subaru for torque. The Skoda 2.0 diesel had 350nm same as Subaru XT.

Look at the matching site Towcar.info I’ve always found it to be very good in its assessments of outfit compatibility and it gives flexibility to see what adjustments to caravan weight and loads will do.