Can I buy this caravan will my Honda Jazz1.4 cope?

[The_long_way_round]

Hi Guys,

I'm new here, new to the world of caravans and new to all things tow related!

So I've fallen in love with a Caravan on ebay! the auction ends this weekend. I have a million questions, can you help me ASAP before I do something stupid... Like buy it!

I have a 1.4 (2009) Honda Jazz.
My Jazz handbook says max towing weight:
Trailer with brakes 1000kg
Trailer without brakes (I'm presuming an old caravan doesn't have brakes?) is 450kg
Max permissible vertical load on the coupling device 95kg

The caravan weight (ex works what the heck does that mean?) is 9cwt. OMG help - what does that mean?
Ex tested weight 10cwt
Nose weight 1cwt
Height to centre of coupling 11"

So, if I was to buy a Witter tow bar:
http://www.witter-towbars.co.uk/product_review.php?towbarVehicleId=1065&&regDate=01/03/14
Or
http://www.witter-towbars.co.uk/product_review.php?towbarVehicleId=1064&&regDate=01/03/14

Will this be OK?
I have NOT a clue what any of that means!! Also... Is pulling a caravan of this weight in modern traffic realistic, or will I be pootling about at about 40mph at full belt on the motorway? This obviously has to be a realistic proposition as it is such a big outlay investment to start this up.

I would be incredibly grateful if anyone could take the time to help me out here. Thanks in advance. X

 

[colin-yorkshire]

Don't Panic Mr Manwaring dont panic "joneses voice"
you do not say which van it is!!! a link to the item would have been helpful.
however in the meantime, take a breath?/ from the weights given ie imperial measure I would say this is a old van, a very old van probably pre 1980. and quite small, judging by the weight.
a van that old could well be riddled with damp and all such other maladies, without an inspection prior to buying (unless you want to undertake a complete restoration) personally I would not touch it with a barge pole.
however to try and answer you questions at this late hour. ex works weight is what is now called MIRO (mass in running order) or the weight EMPTY, tested weight is the running weight ie loaded, and vertical load is the noseweight.
so 9cwt empty = 458kg
10cwt full = 509kg
noseweight 51kg.
user payload =50kg
as the Jazz has a maximum trailer weight of 1000kg the van is only half that so yes on the figures it would tow it ok.

ps .it would help if questions had more technical content to them for instance what van is it!!!!!!!!!!!!.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Trailer without brakes (I'm presuming an old caravan doesn't have brakes?) is 450kg

I believe that either there is a misprint or you read the number incorrectly as the law states trailers over 250 kg HAVE to be braked, not 450.

Edit - I've misquoted as well, for for 250 read 750.

 

[Gafferbill]

Welcome to the forum.

.........yes buying the caravan on ebay at such short notice would be stupid to quote your own words!

You need to do more research........for instance the caravan you are considering may well not have brakes as the law states that all trailers over 750kgs total laden mass must be fitted with brakes.
The ebay caravan has a total laden mass of 509kgs and as such may well not have brakes.
However according to your quoted figures for your Honda Jazz you can only tow a trailer without brakes of up to 450kgs laden mass.

That would make that combination illegal hmy:

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Long-way-round.

Buying a caravan is something you should not do until you have done some research basically as other correspondents have said. Based on the skimpy information you have provided, I couldn't say if its a reasonable match or not, so on the basis of not knowing I have to advice caution.

By your own admission you are new to the hobby, It would be a real shame to rush into an ill thought out purchase, only to find you either cant tow it, or even worse you may have ended up paying more for the caravan than its really worth, then finding its got some fundamental flaw such as extensive damp or rot and not being able to sell it.

I strongly suggest you do more research, even if you miss this one, another will come along at some point. Its a major purchase, and as much as for your own safety, it usually pays to have a experienced caravanner or professional do a pre offer inspection.

 

[The_long_way_round]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321402709926?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Reluctantly I give away my intentions. Was trying to keep it top secret!

If the seller is to be believed ( and he seems like an honourable chap) it is a sound van. Already way beyond its worth in ebay bids.... I am fully aware we are now into 'collectors item' prices. I can do a little better than the current price but not much.

Yesterday I learnt that caravans DO have brakes ( who would have known?! Lol) so I am re-guessing that this one, despite its grand age also does.

So with the additional information, could any of you kind knights in shining armour offer any more thoughts. What you have shared already really has been appreciated.
[ebay]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thomson-Mini-Glen-1970s-Vintage-Classic-Caravan-2-Birth-solid-dry-original-rare-/321402709926[/ebay]

 

[The_long_way_round]

Hummm.... My ebay link is not working
Try again:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321402709926?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

[The_long_way_round]

Confused . Com

Ok, you'll gave to search ebay for it yourself
Item number: 321402709926
Thomson Mini Glen 1970

 

[Gafferbill]

Facts and figures Thompson Mini Glen

..........a blast from the past!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Having viewed the ebay listing, my thoughts have changed a little. As you say it sounds in wonderful condition, but who wouldn't say that when advertising it for sale. The problem with caravans is most of us know they suffer with all sorts of ills which generally get worse the older it is. Sadly there are many pitfalls the new caravanner may not be aware of or even have any idea to know what to look for . So there is absolutely no way I would purchase this caravan without a thorough inspection before hand.

I also think its right at the top of of its realistic valuation considering its age.

 

[Damian]

If you have not seen the van in the flesh and inspected it, DONT buy it.
It may not even exist!!!!!
The seller may well appear "honourable", but is he or she?
Most of the best scams appear to be good and the person offering the item "honourable".

 

[The_long_way_round]

I didn't want to hear that
I know the price is steep, it won't take much to put me out of the running anyway.

...but I want it

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Why is the price shown in US Dollars in your clips??

 

[colin-yorkshire]

Why is the price shown in US Dollars in your clips??

E-bay seems to do this now with any link from the site probably because it comes from a US server, and not a UK one

 

[Gagakev]

Thomson Mini Glen

 

[The_long_way_round]

Mine is in £. £840

OK, to paraphrase:

It 'appears' to be a sound buy, if the description is to be believed ( but on my head be it if I take the risk -worst case scenario, I loose money on it)
Looks like it is mostly all cosmetic work, not structural
I am possibly being a little naive believing I can tow it a 3hour journey home the very first time I ever attempt to tow anything. Hummm, I can't defend that one.
It is already overpriced ( but I'm aware of that, and on the cusp of being out of the running anyway)
If it doesn't actually exist, I'll lose a £50 deposit and learn a hard lesson. However the deposit is paid through PayPal and they have payment protection, so I think I'll be alright on that score.
Worst case scenario is I'll loose a bit of money if it doesn't work out and I sell it at a loss.

Does this seem like a fair summary?

By the way is it a single axel or a twin?

Thanks guys

 

[Gagakev]

It's a single axle, I would check the dates on the tyres before even attempting to tow it home. if more than 5 years old (some now say 7 years) I would leave it there and get them changed.

 

[paws]

Tlwr,
it looks good to me... price is great, I have seen good condition vans like this go for £2000 or so.
The van has brakes... and was designed to be towed by the original mini car....
The towing hitch height at 11 inches is problematic.... you need to check this out together with the actual condition of the van....(carefully)
Turning up on site on on a rally could make you the centre of attention and a lot of new friends.
Good luck and I hope it works Ok for you.
Regards
paws

 

[Damian]

Just to take one single item into account in regard to you towing the van home, assuming you go with your heart and not your head and actually buy it.
How old are the tyres?????????
Add another quite important point,,,,,,Do the brakes WORK??????????????

As you do not know the answers to those two questions , it makes buying without seeing and checking these items a very rash thing to do.

If as I suspect the tyres are older than 5 years and most likely in bad condition then before you move it you will have to get new tyres fitted.
You will also need to ensure that the brakes work.

The person selling appears to be some kind of trader judging by the other vans in the background, but cannot spell "Berth" correctly (Birth is having a baby) so obviously has no idea about the mechanics of caravans.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

I also think its right at the top of of its realistic valuation considering its age.

I agree but my feeling is it will fetch over a grand, if it is genuine, considering a clapped one so rare would cost a couple of hundred quid plus treble that for the cost of restoration plus the time to do it!!
good luck with auction but DON'T send any money untill you have seen it and tested it, (EBAY regular)

 

[The_long_way_round]

Thanks everyone so much :silly:
Paws - thanks, you may have guessed that's exactly what I wanted to hear, however I have carefully assimilated all the constructive feedback that the realists have offered and I am listening (albeit reluctantly ) as this is exactly what I do need to hear. It is appreciated.

1-2k! Estimated end price? Pheweee, I'm living in cloud cuckoo land!
It realistically sounds like I'm out of the running, I can't bring very much more to the party as I have to cost in the tow bar/ mirror extension and now it seems tyre prices as well. But where there is a small chance there is still a little hope. At least I am researching for the next potential van that comes along.

Damien - I got the impression the seller was the son, is it possible it is in a caravan storage facility rather that a dealership? Yes I know! I'm choosing to see what I want to see!

So does this 11" towing hitch height stuff mean that the tow bar ball should measure 11" from the ground? Why would that be problematic! Surely if it's possible to have it fitted at that height then I've nothing to worry about? Or do I set the height when I hook the caravan upto it? If so, I'm guessing it must be easier said than done achieving this height?

Tyres: I've just checked my car tyres to see what you mean about the date. I can not see a date on my car tyres I would have guessed any date on them would be date of manufacture and not date of fitting?
If the tyres are old/poor, would I have enough leeway to tow it around to the nearest quick fit? What happens if I ignore this advice (I won't, not with a potential investment this big) but just wondered what the big deal is - is it illegal?

Once again. I am so very grateful to you all for taking the time to help me. :cheer:

 

[Dustydog]

Sorry but I am not convinced.
This "collectors item" is 44 years old and allegedly dry.
The equipment level will be minimal.
If you are buying this as a long term restoration project and have the rebuilding knowledge fair enough.
If not be very careful and don't be afraid to walk away.
Your posts are ambiguous.
Do you want a piece of history or just something suitable for your Jazz to tow?

 

[Damian]

In answer to a couple of points.
First, your "impression" that the seller is the son is purely speculation on your part, nowhere in the description did I get that impression.
Tyres, the date of manufacture, and the ONLY date to take any notice of ,is stamped into the tyre wall and is in the form of ,for example, 0609, which would be week 6 of 2009. a marker of 069 is week 6 of 1999.
The marker is only stamped on one side of the tyre and usually it is on the inside due to "Sods Law", so removal of the wheel is needed unless you like sliding around under a van.
Caravan tyres suffer from degradation due to sunlight and weather so they should be changed at the maximum age of 7 years if they are in good condition, or any time if damaged.
Tyres older than 5 years stand a very real chance of rapidly deflating by the sidewall blowing out, and if that happens you have what could be a very serious situation on your hands and probably serious damage to the van.

 

[The_long_way_round]

If I'm honest. I want:
something that looks cute - highest priority
Small enough for a jazz to tow - essential
Cheap enough (max £850)
Needs cosmetic work, nothing that requires blokey knowledge like axels, rust/ damp (hence why I thought this was perfect)
A project for the summer.

I might be being a bit girly, but that's because I know my limitations, and I'm very clear in my own mind what I want/ need.

 

[The_long_way_round]

DustyDawwwg -
This is what I want:
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/274086327294637062/

I have no doubt I can achieve this, but only if the structure is sound to begin with. So these are the limitations I work within. X