Can I buy this caravan will my Honda Jazz1.4 cope?

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Damian

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The_long_way_round said:
If I'm honest. I want:
something that looks cute - highest priority
Small enough for a jazz to tow - essential
Cheap enough (max £850)
Needs cosmetic work, nothing that requires blokey knowledge like axels, rust/ damp (hence why I thought this was perfect)
A project for the summer.

I might be being a bit girly, but that's because I know my limitations, and I'm very clear in my own mind what I want/ need.

,Well, if that is what you are expecting then you will be sadly disappointed.
It WILL need a full service by a caravan engineer to ensure that the gas and electrics are safe to use, factor in around £180 to £200 for that, plus any parts required to fix any problems.
I can tell you right now that if the fridge does not work, there are no spare parts available for it.
It says it has gas lights in the van, you cannot safely use those unless you want to be killed by Carbon Monoxide, they are extremely dangerous.
Rust and damp are things that may or may not be a problem, but if it does have any it will need to be sorted out.
 
May 16, 2014
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Bit of ebay feedback research. Seller appears to have never sold or bought a caravan before. Mostly clothing/bags/ mobile phone covers and a few odd car parts. Still believe the seller to be an individual rather than a dealer. No negative feedback. I have a good feeling about them. Faith in humanity resumes :)
 

Damian

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I know you don't want to hear this, but, take off the rose coloured spectacles and smell the coffee.
The feedback confirms to me that the seller probably got the van as a scrapper an is trying his or her luck.
This is a BUSINESS deal you are entering into, not a mythical apparition.
There is no room in business for sentiment.

First rule of buying a caravan: NEVER take the word of the seller that "everything is working"
Second rule of buying a caravan; NEVER part with any money until you have seen and had the van checked out.
 
May 16, 2014
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Damien.
Gosh no! I wouldn't dream of using gas lighting! Did they not have electric in the 70's? :eek:hmy:

I have a camping extension lead and would use a lamp.

It's good to have an idea what a service costs. Fridge looks pretty rammy, we already decided that would have to be replaced... But in good time, not immediately.

Thanks, a harsh induction, I'm sensing I'm winding a few of you serious experienced guys up, being so wet behind the ears and all. But I genuinely do appreciate your input. :oops:
 

Damian

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You are not winding anyone up, rest assured.
It is good that you have asked and the advice being given is to try and get you to make the right decision.
None of the forum users would like to see you lose money or end up with a lemon of a van.
EBay is known to be a minefield of bad adverts and vans which do not exist and are simply a scam.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Well the warning bells have been rung.
it's your money.
I'd love to know the final outcome.
Good luck and please don't be afraid to walk away.
 
Mar 13, 2007
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The_long_way_round said:
Damien.
Gosh no! I wouldn't dream of using gas lighting! Did they not have electric in the 70's? :eek:hmy:
hi, no they did not, there was no creature comforts we take for granted today, lighting was gas so was the fridge water was pumped via a hand pump next to the sink, if you were lucky you had a wardrobe sized cubicle in which you could put a "toilet" (bucket with seat on) and that was it!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT ADDED TEXT

ps, while doing a search on this particular van I came across one very important small detail. and that is the van was designed to run on BL MINI rims and tyres ie 520x10 there is no modern subsitute in that size, given that the old Mini is now a classic in it's own right the tyres will be hard to source. and not a simple *** into Kwik fit for replacement a quick search could only find one supplier for them @£80 each. mail order.
sorry if this seems more woe but one just has to have their eyes wide open before jumping in with both feet, even if the van is a good as it appears there will be added hidden costs like servicing to consider,
of course one can have the van picked up via a recovery firm and not tow it at all but this would add extra cost at time of purchase.
none of the contributors who have answered your questions are deliberately trying to put you off what you wish to do they are just conserned that a small mistake could be very expensive we have all been there at some point and are trying to help.
colin.
 

Damian

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Just to see what kind of seller he is an whether he knows anything about caravans I asked him a simple question; How old are the tyres?
He should have come back with a date as indicated by the date marker on the tyres but he came back with the following answer:

"Hi, i haven't got a clue mate, looked today there’s no splitting or crazing and tred is good, but if i had to guess I would say they were possibly the original tyres. There is a place approx. 500yds from where she is stored that sell & fit part worn tyres though. Hope this has helped. Cheers,

Even suggesting that part worn tyres would be Ok is completely out of order and is something that should NEVER be considered.

Walk away NOW
 
Mar 13, 2007
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Damian-Moderator said:
Just to see what kind of seller he is an whether he knows anything about caravans I asked him a simple question; How old are the tyres?
He should have come back with a date as indicated by the date marker on the tyres but he came back with the following answer:

"Hi, i haven't got a clue mate, looked today there’s no splitting or crazing and tred is good, but if i had to guess I would say they were possibly the original tyres. There is a place approx. 500yds from where she is stored that sell & fit part worn tyres though. Hope this has helped. Cheers,

Even suggesting that part worn tyres would be Ok is completely out of order and is something that should NEVER be considered.

Walk away NOW

With due respect to Damian all this proves is the guy knows nothing about caravans :woohoo: but that could be said of 50% of caravan owners never mind someone who has never had one :sick: how many contributors of this forum only found damp on a service :eek:hmy: even though they live and sleep in the thing, some faults are not that obvious even to the acknowleged eye.

it is also not uncommon for a seller to be selling an item on behalf of someone else :whistle: as not everybody has a Ebay and paypal account,

I have had some right bargains on auction sites, due to the seller having "no idea" what the item they are selling is, for instance the laptop I am using to write this post!! sold "as not working" as it would not boot up for £10, when in fact all that was wrong with it was a defect memory strip. that was fixed before the postman had got to the end of the street.

of course one has to be careful on auction sites, I have looked and read the listing, the guy has "no idea" true, but does seem genuine, it says on the listing (Any questions welcome, viewing recommended, first to see will buy.) so go look at it, and take someone who knows about vans, if its not there or not a described leave it alone. simples.

however I still think is overpriced for what it is!! but thats just me :silly: and those tyres are going to be hard to source, that just about covers my opinion on the subject I will wait and see what the OP does.

oh!, and PS, for the benefit of those who do not know Damian, whats wrong with part worn tyres!! I have used them when cash was tight :( some like new average age of a part worn 2 years old. so it cannot be age related.
 
May 15, 2014
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Hi cy,
The tyre size you mention, 520x10, is a cross ply reference and if this is what is fitted it implies that the tyres could be decades old. The current radial ply designation is 145 80 R14 and there are quite a few brands still available though I have no idea as to the load bearing properties.
I can not imagine why this thread is being persued.
The OP has been advised to walk away and is choosing to ignore this.
On his own head be it.
Rgds
 
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hi Wilbury,
indeed the tyre configuration 520x10 is related to the original cross ply fitted to the "BL MINI" and B&B trailers made at the time as they used the mini hubs, the rim size for this wheel is 10in not 14in so 145 80 R14 will not fit as the diameter of the rim is 4in smaller, the correct tyre size to fit this rim is 145/155R10 4ply and are as rare as hen's teeth.
however Western Towing do supply a complete alternative 3.5j wheel with correct 23.4mm offset for £58 (inc vat), max load 325kg.
secondly you may not be able to imagine why this thread is being persued, but I can, there is a lot of interest out there in classic caravans and there's a good market for the retro styling of good and rare examples. plus snippets of information from any thread can be useful for those not wishing to do the caravan thing in a brand new super equipped 2014 model.
wether this particular van is the right one for the OP is an open question!! we may find out as the saga unfolds, unless of course the OP get fed up of negative responses and stops posting.
on a personal note, I well remember the negative attitude I received when first contemplating buying and restoring the old clapped out tatty motorhome, but I bought it anyway :woohoo: 2years later when the "Swan" was unveiled it put all the critics to shame, it also made us more friends in the first year of use than could ever have been gained buying a new one.
 

Damian

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Just to address the following comment: " oh!, and PS, for the benefit of those who do not know Damian, whats wrong with part worn tyres!!

Think you’re getting a bargain with a discount part-worn? Think again, as we expose the shock state of some of the tyres on sale

Second-hand clothes ooze retro charm, but part-worn tyres don’t. Yes, they’re usually dirt-cheap – four new tyres can cost anything up to £1,000, so it’s hardly surprising that motorists buy an estimated four million part-worn tyres every year, cutting this bill in half on average. Bargain, surely? Apparently not.

Auto Express joined forces with campaign group TyreSafe to investigate the sale and condition of these cut-price, part-worn tyres in the UK, and we were horrified by what we found. Our investigation revealed a thriving black market in illegal, and in some cases lethal, second-hand tyres being sold to unwitting, cash-strapped families.

Yet these part-worn tyre retailers aren’t selling in secret – they have premises on busy high streets and their products are plastered all over the Internet. They also litter big-name auction sites, like eBay.

So you wouldn’t be blamed for thinking that part-worn tyres must be safe to buy and fit to your family car. But you’d be wrong. As part of our joint investigation, TyreSafe bought a random sample of 50 part-worns – half sourced online, half from high street retailers in the Midlands – and then inspected them back at base.

Independent tyre expert Ted Foreman – whose job it was to put them under the microscope – instantly told us all but one wasn’t even legal. Unlike the rest of Europe, the UK has strict rules on the conditions of sale of part-worn tyres. The Motor Vehicle Tyres (Safety) Regulations Act 1994 – part of the Consumer Protection Act – dictates the acceptable repair, tread depth and overall condition of rubber.

It also stipulates labelling and traceability: repairs to the rubber should carry the name and registration number of the garage that did the work. These were missing on all of our repaired tyres. Part-worns must also be ink stamped ‘part worn’ on the sidewall to show the tyre has been checked and meets all of these legal requirements. Only one of our 50 tyres bore that seal of approval – and if our sample is representative of the tyres sold across the UK, that’s a mere two per cent of the entire part-worn tyre stock.

It also means that in 98 per cent of cases, motorists buying these tyres would have no way of knowing if they were safe or not. And they could be pretty certain the seller had not adhered to UK regulations – even though part-worn tyre outlets reassure their customers to the contrary. Auto Express rang six retailers across the country at random, posing as a potential customer, and was told in each case that the tyres had been checked.

Worse still, the omission of the ‘part worn’ stamp on our sample of tyres was the tip of the iceberg – and icebergs are an accurate analogy, because our part-worns appeared in good shape to the untrained eye, but hide an array of dangers. Most had glossy black rubber and healthy tread patterns; all our tyres had at least the legal minimum 1.6mm of tread.

Ted explained: “In many cases, these tyres look great. They have loads of tread and could fool you into thinking they’re a bargain. But when you buy them, you inherit their dodgy history – every time they ran up a kerb, every accident, every time the owner drove on them under-inflated.”

Ted told us driving on under-inflated rubber damages the tyre structurally, and this accumulates over time. “If you pump them up, next time they’re under-inflated it tops up the damage you caused first time around, and eventually leads to a blow-out,” he said.

He added that most motorists wouldn’t get a chance to inspect a part-worn tyre before it was fitted, either. “You need the tyre to be removed from its rim to inspect it,” he warned. “That’s where the safety hazards lie hidden.” Ted carried out his inspection using the same safety checklist that retailers are meant to use before selling these tyres. And he found some shocking faults.

More than one third had shoddy, illegal repairs, tears or punctures that had been botched or ignored before the retailer sold them to us, posing as drivers wanting a cheap tyre to get our car through its MoT.

In some cases our stooge was a family man; in others we used a younger man posing as a cash-strapped student. But age and family status were clearly no bar to selling dangerous, illegal tyres. One of our tyres was a death trap. Ted pointed out a rusty nail, which was quite clearly sticking 5cm through the inside of its sidewall. “That could kill you,” he warned. “No doubt about it.”

Patched

Our sample also included illegal, unplugged punctures, patched on the inside. Ted compared these to open wounds. “There’s steel wire running through,” he said. “It’s like bones in a skeleton. If the protective layer of waterproof rubber is compromised, this metal will be exposed, rust and perish from the inside. This one looks like it’s been fixed with a bicycle puncture repair kit.”

So how are part-worn tyre retailers able to operate without detection or penalty? eBay didn’t seem interested in the vendors selling part-worns via its site. We sourced half of our sample from such sellers, but eBay refused to comment when we approached it.

The Office of Fair Trading couldn’t help, either, even though consumer protection is one of its remits. It suggested we contact Trading Standards, which is responsible for policing these dubious sales practices at a local authority level. But an online search for regional clampdowns revealed little, if any, action.

So these retailers are left largely unchecked, even though they face fines of up to £5,000 for flouting rules on part-worn tyres. TyreSafe chairman Stuart Jackson said: “Although a number of clear regulations exist which permit the sale of part-worn tyres, our investigation makes it obvious these are not being adhered to.”

He demanded that Trading Standards act “as a matter of urgency”. But Trading Standards may have missed the boat, claims the Tyre Industry Federation (TIF) – an independent body tasked with lobbying Government on unsafe practice in this market. It says the Department for Transport (DfT) is about to take full responsibility for all tyre regulations, including part-worns, and is appointing an agency as early as next month to enforce them. The legislation is being reviewed and tightened in preparation for this, too.

TIF chief Graham Wilson told us this would be a wake-up call to rogue traders. “The DfT will want the agency it appoints to commit to a certain level of enforcement. It will want to know how many site visits and how much mystery shopping are planned.”

Taking a gamble on a part-worn tyre is a risk that doesn’t necessarily pay off, either. We measured the tread depth of our sample tyres and compared them to the price paid to calculate a pence-per-millimetre tread figure. We then did the same for a brand new tyre of the same size, with the maximum 8mm tread depth, using an average quoted new tyre price. Surprisingly, in more than half the sizes we examined, it was better value to buy brand new tyres.

This rang true for one self-confessed part-worn tyre buyer. Colin Smith, of Wolverhampton, W Mids, told us that a cheap set he bought for his Vauxhall Calibra “lasted only 500 miles”.

“On closer inspection, I realised what a big mistake I’d made,” he said. “The tread was uneven; one showed heavy wear in the centre and the other was worn on the outsides. The previous owner clearly hadn’t run them at the right pressure.” Colin added there was a cut in the tyre sidewall, too – enough to bring an MoT failure, or three points on your licence and a fine.

But when he swapped them for another used set, he didn’t fare much better. “These didn’t hold their pressure,” he said. It turned out paint on the rim had stopped the tyre from sealing properly. A clean solved this, but Colin is still disillusioned by part-worns.

“My Vauxhall Astra Coupe has always had new tyres. Its original set lasted nine years and 55,000 miles,” he said. “So you get what you pay for.” That’s something all drivers would do well to bear in mind before they shell out on a set of potentially lethal part-worns.

Visit www.tyresafe.org for advice on part-worn tyres.

Read more: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/35532/used-tyre-scandal#ixzz32HMiOWNx
 
Mar 13, 2007
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A nice piece of borrowed journalism there Damian, a warning to all,

I seem to remember a similar piece a couple of years ago in the same vane on budget tyres, :eek:hmy: of course it is of little help if you get a side wall puncture half way through your pay month, and cannot afford £100 for a new tyre, you could I suppose run the car on the skinny for two weeks, while your going to work in order to buy a new one, :woohoo:

by the way the auction has now finished winning bid £2056.00 so I guess the OP did not get it.
told you there was interest in old classic vans.
guess it's now back to the mundane stuff, like leaking vans and faulty equipment :whistle:
 
May 16, 2014
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Paws - you were right about the price! I did love that little van, but not that much! I hope it makes someone very happy :)

Wilbury said:
I can not imagine why this thread is being persued.
The OP has been advised to walk away and is choosing to ignore this.
On his own head be it.
Rgds

Hi Wilbury 'nice' to meet you too! Why on earth shouldn't this post be pursued? Although I have to say it, the tone of this thread has been harsh mostly throughout, if one develops a thick skin it has provided a lot of information to help me on my way when choosing the next van I find. There is a constant theme of 'do your research' running through this thread which is what I am hoping to achieve, and some people here have been kind enough to give me a short sharp induction - which is very valuable to me (although sugar coated would have been an easier pill to swallow guys!). So please enlighten me as to why this thread is irrelevant enough to be ignored? Maybe you have been brought up around towing and caravans and always knew your stuff, you were lucky in that case. If you had to find this stuff out for yourself then maybe you have forgotten what a huge new world this is to try to enter? So next time you are so quick to judge and form opinions on someone, especially through the cowardly anonymity of a forum, perhaps you should re-evaluate your humanity!

I do hope that the actual world of caravaners when I finally do pull up at a camp site with my future caravan, is a lot more friendly than this forum. Don't get me wrong, I have been very grateful for the time and trouble you have gone to to help me understand new concepts, but do you realise how clicky and intimidating it is to try to break in to what feels like an exclusive 'private' forum? Give newbies a chance guys. I am genuine and some of you have over looked that for what ever reason.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Long way round,

I agree with you that some of the posts have been on the sharp side perhaps my own included, but it did seem you were intent on purchasing a caravan about which you admitted you knew very little. Having worked in a caravan related industry, I have seen some very sorry sights when a customers heart purchase became a major headache when it was not all as good as they thought.

Owning a caravan is no longer the cheap and cheerful way of having holidays at the drop of a hat, there's quite a lot to it, and whilst the best lessons learned are from our own mistakes, I don't like seeing a novice veer into a potential disaster. Now none of us know how good or otherwise this caravan really was, it might have been 100% genuine, and a real peach, but reality has taught me that older caravans usually do not survive very well, and whilst they may look good on surface, there area mirriad ways the internal structures could be adversely affected.

To some one who is really familiar with vintage caravans, such problems may not faze them and they may have the inclination and cash to be able to repair and nurture them back to full health. But to an avowed novice with a known limited budget, the unknowns would not be just a steep learning curve it can easily be a vertical climb with a bottom less money pit below.

My considered advice would be to spend some time looking round caravans, and seeing what's available. Whilst buying from a dealer is slightly more expensive, at least you have some consumer rights and protection if anything does go wrong. and most of all don't let you heart rule you head on these matters. Yes of course you want it to be nice, but at what real cost?

Take care and I'm sure the right caravan will pop up somewhere.
 
Mar 13, 2007
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Hello Long way round,
I am sorry that you feel your first experience on the forum was not a good one, but at the same time glad that you gleaned some valuable information, on which to pursue any future purchase.
I am also sorry that you feel some members were a little unfeeling and let you down in respect of a newbie trying to get to grips with the prospect of starting out caravanning in a small cheap van off Ebay, however in reality caravan ownership is very complex it should not be but it actually is, you cannot circumvent the knowledge trap, that newbies find themselves in some have tried most have failed, and it can be a very expensive lesson.
I know i've been there got a draw full of Tshirts to prove it!!, but you do learn and in time you feel confident to pass on that information so others don't suffer the same fate.
one tip I will give you, dissect the information you receive, and the source form where it comes, is it reliable!! it is true!!, in the case of forums this can be difficult because of the nature and anonymity of the posters, look at their backgrounds and previous posts it will give you a good idea where they are coming from.
some of the harshest comments may come from posters with a professional perspective in mind where any subject is black or white with no grey area.
as being for clubby or cliquish it's not really true, but there is familiarity,
think of it like this, you get on a bus your the last one on!! everyone looks at you, you look at them a bus full of strangers, you take a seat, two stops later, some get off some more get on, you feel more confident then as you are not the last one on, because you are now part of the established crowd, forums are just like that, you soon get used to it.
you also seemed a bit miffed by the comments of one poster, well ok just take a look at his profile B) he is also new but got on the bus the stop before you. :cheer: :cheer: (attempt at humor)

all that said,
why! all the negative comments, if you bear with me a little I will try and explain from (my perspective) a new member ("remember the bus!!) does their first post asking if quote"
Hi Guys,
I'm new here, new to the world of caravans and new to all things tow related!
So I've fallen in love with a Caravan on ebay! the auction ends this weekend. I have a million questions, can you help me ASAP before I do something stupid... Like buy it!
I have a 1.4 (2009) Honda Jazz.
My Jazz handbook says max towing weight:
Trailer with brakes 1000kg"

straight away the alarm bells start ringing because.
1. a 1.4 Honda Jazz is not what could be considered an ideal tow car. it can tow however but would be severerly limited, by it's 1000kg max tow weight, any biginner would be wise not to tow a trailer any where near that limit.
however the proposed van is only around the 600kg mark so it could well be ok, untill.
2. the proposed van is described, a 40year old 8ft Thomson that has not been used for a few years, although the van is described as very good and dry, that is hard to believe, without a complete inspection and testing,before purchase, this seems impossible because.
3. it is for sale on an auction site where the description cannot be verified and the seller untrusted (not bought from them before) while all along you have to bid against other buyers that my have/have not seen it!!.
secondly is it worth it"" this is where the can of worms get opened :woohoo: being on a tight budget cost is everything.
and where substancial research is essential,
the van in question is vintage so read "obsolete" any parts that may be required will be hard to get and expensive like tyres, even if everything works it will need parts and servicing before use, this includes towing it home.
when he van was built there were very little in regards to equipment and legistlation now just about everything is covered by some rule or other, all these have to be adhered to, old vans are not exempt.
and lastly there is the cost involved in buying a classic van if it is really as good as advertised it is definetly not going to be cheap. so being on a tight budget makes buying it a pointless exercise.
when you consider all the above points there is little wonder most of the replies you got were negative yes they could have been more friendly perhaps but if you read this you may at least understand why.

sorry about the long post but after your last comments I had to respond.
 
May 15, 2014
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Hi TLWR,
Believe it or not I am glad to make your aquaintance as I am sure all the other members are too.
The only reason I thought, and do still think, that there was no point in the many posters spending further efforts in trying to help you avoid getting yourself into a costly mistake was that all of the relavent factors seem to have been covered, sometimes more than once and you were giving a very good impression that you were not heeding them.
Further posts would allmost certainly be going over ground allready covered and there would have been no point in going round in circles.
I am sure there was no animosity felt towards you by anyone and I like others wish you every success in your search for a Caravan and trust that all you have learned on the forum will help you avoid landing yourself with a dangerous money pit.
Happy Caravanning and Genuine Regards,
W
 
Feb 6, 2009
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Hi Beachball,
Good to see you around, Sorry to hear you have been poorly again.
I'm sure that all of us who have contributed to this topic of The_long_way_round and his quest for a cute little caravan that his Honda Jazz could tow, will join with me in wishing you all best wishes, good health for the future, and of course, Happy Caravanning...
Regards
paws
 

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