Can you drive your car if it has failed a new MOT?

[Gabsgrandad]

MOT testing might seem cut and dried but there is a grey area - if you take your car for an early MOT and it fails, is your old certificate still valid?

I have had alook for the answer and surprisingly the law is quite clear on the issue, and may surprise a few.

 

[Sproket]

I presume that the info is on here ?

 

[Gabsgrandad]

I actually came across the article on here

 

[NickinFrance]

Sproket, no, the information isn't on there (that I could see) but is on http://www.mottest.net/mot/mot-failure-question/

 

[Surfer]

If you fail a MOT but the old certificate is still valid, can you legally drive the vehicle to a repair centre from the MOT centre?

 

[NickinFrance]

If you fail a MOT but the old certificate is still valid, can you legally drive the vehicle to a repair centre from the MOT centre?

That is on Spoket's link:
It is generally an offence to use on a public road, a vehicle of testable age that doesn’t have a current test certificate, except when:

• taking it to a test station for an MOT test booked in advance
• bringing it away from a test station after it has failed the MOT test, to a place of repair
• taking it to a place, by previous arrangement, where problems that caused the vehicle to fail its MOT test, can be repaired
• bringing it away from a place where the problems with the vehicle have been repaired

Even in the above circumstances you may still be prosecuted for driving an unroadworthy vehicle if it doesn’t comply with various regulations affecting its construction and use. Your car insurance may also be invalid.

 

[Willi-Wonti]

I would be inclined to book the vehicle in at the repair center & the re test center just in case you are stopped by the police, then you can prove with a simple phone call that your journey is legit

 

[RogerL]

There's no offence under the MoT Test regulations as the old certificate is still valid.
There is a separate offence of "unroadworthiness" which it clearly is if it failed the test but that is rarely ever used against people taking cars to/from repair centres to make them roadworthy.
There is (or was) a procedure for cars in very dangerous condition to be "red ticketed" at the MoT station - this prevents them being used on the public highway.

 

[Steve L]

I wouldn't like to put it to the test so to speak.
A MOT is only a certified test that states that when tested at XXX time on XX/XX/XXXX date, the vehicle was then in a road worthy condition. I've known people to lend their mate a set of wheels with good tyres just to get through the test?
So realistically if your car has failed it's MOT, it is unroadworthy. So if stopped by the police when your not travelling between the MOT center and the place of repair. A policeman can legitimately prosecute you for driving an unroadworthy vehicle simply by booking you on any one of the failed items. Defective steering is usually the top failure. More precisely the nearside trackrod end.
To be quite honest, you should maintain your car regularly and by doing that you won't have the jitters when having an MOT done.
I am an engineer by trade and a keen DIY mechanic as such. So tinkering with my car once a week, just keeping an eye on the state of the essential parts actually keeps repair bills manageable. Example being. I changed the nearside rear wheel bearing when it started rumbling at £48 off fleabay. The next month I bought another bearing as the offside bearing, i guessed wouldn't be far behind going. Sure enough 6 weeks later it started rumbling. That month finances were tight as I'd bought 2 tyres, but the in stock bearing came for free on my monthly budget and saved the day. The following month the car had it's MOT, passed and came away with 2 minor advisories. One to grease the brake pipes behind the fuel tank and one for a perishing exhaust rubber. All fixed within a week for £2 plus a drink for my local garage for letting me use their ramp for 15 mins to save my bad back.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I believe nick in France has quoted the regulations correctly.

Lets start with a popular misconception, "if a car has current MOT then it is roadworthy". Not necessarily true.

Consider that fact that a car may pass and MOT one year, but it may fail the following year. For that to happen at some point between MOT's some aspect of the car has deteriorated below the statutory levels of performance or integrity. This deterioration doesn't magically happen on the way to the test station on the last day of the old MOT, so realistically the point at which a the failure occurs must be during the life of an MOT certificate, and could even be on the way from the first test station.

If the authorities decide to inspect your vehicle, possibly due to it being involved in an RTI, if they find some aspect of the vehicle to be unroadworthy you can still be prosecuted even if you have a current MOT certificate.

This means that an MOT certificate can become null and void within its normal life if the vehicle is shown not to comply when an interim inspection.

It is my belief that if you present your vehicle for test before the due date, and it fails, then the fail supersedes your standing MOT compliance, and driving in the knowledge that your vehicle has failed a roadworthyness inspection is an offence (except as stated by nick) Your insurance is also likely to be compromised.

Don't forget that the police and VOSA cameras doing numberplate recognition are now connected not only to the DVLA databases for road fund tax, but also to the insurance database, and now the MOT database as well, so your recent MOT failure will be available to them.

I have also been told by a pretty reliable source that the camera resolution on the most recent systems being supplied to the agencies can pick up road fund tax discs as well - BIG BROTHER is watching!!!

 

[Lutz]

I have also been told by a pretty reliable source that the camera resolution on the most recent systems being supplied to the agencies can pick up road fund tax discs as well - BIG BROTHER is watching!!!

I can't quite see the need for the camera resolution to allow the tax discs to be read. Surely, it can't be rocket science to be able to check whether a vehicle is taxed or not simply on the basis of number plate identification.

 

[RogerL]

I have also been told by a pretty reliable source that the camera resolution on the most recent systems being supplied to the agencies can pick up road fund tax discs as well - BIG BROTHER is watching!!!

I can't quite see the need for the camera resolution to allow the tax discs to be read. Surely, it can't be rocket science to be able to check whether a vehicle is taxed or not simply on the basis of number plate identification.

That's exactly how ANPR works - reads the registration number and checks on a DVLA database - that way it also picks up uninsured cars and cars involved in criminal activities.

 

[NickinFrance]

So realistically if your car has failed it's MOT, it is unroadworthy.

Not true, there are many things including Warning lights, Unopening doors, Fuel cap seal, Tyre fitment, PAS in-op, PAS leak, Brake imbalance, Binding brake, CV boots, Emissions, Headlamp alignment (list provided by a MoT tester friend) that would result in a MoT fail but not make the car unroadworthy in the eyes of the law.

 

[Steve L]

Hi Nick.
I don't wish to sound scornfull about your last post.
But if a car has a leaking power steering system, the steering could fail, resulting in heavy steering or loss of control.
If the brakes are out of balance you again could loose control if you had to do an emergency stop.
Wrongly fitted tyres again could cause problems in an E stop situation.
When a car has failed it's mot that is immediately logged onto the DVLA data base. So as I was saying, the fuzz already know what is right or wrong about your car once a PNC check is done.

For example. I had to renew my car insurance recently and change the insurer, a you do when you need the best price. Swiftcover bless their cotton bed socks, got stroppy about me leaving them and notified the motor insurance database that they no longer insure my car. The way I knew this was because I passed an under cover cop car as i entered Leominster. He followed me closely for about 3 mins and then flashed me to stop. The officer walked to my car and started to say that my car came up as uninsured. No sooner had he uttered those words, his opo shouted from the car "it's ok he's changed insurers". The cop by me went to walk off, but I called him back. I showed him my printout of the insurance certificate from renew ins, and asked him to update the motor insurance data base. He said they can't do that but if I'm stopped again in the next few days, ask the officer to do a full PNC check, as that was what threw up the new insurer and not the automatic number plate recognition system.

As the majority of us know, a MOT is not a guarantee of a car's condition, it simply states that at the time of the test the vehicle was at or above the acceptable condition to comply with the regs.
I like most people take a new mot as a reasonable assurance of the standard of a second hand car, because if the owner has taken the trouble to put the car through an mot test, he's confident of the good condition statement in the advert for the car. But I do look closely at the car to assure myself that it is in good order and that items not covered by a mot are good too.
From that point on and having purchased the car I spend my first 6 months on average bringing the condition of my purchase up to my standard of roadworthyness. After all, if one tows caravans and trailers regularly, it is reasonable to say that their car needs to be in the top end of good condition and not only just passing a mot test.

 

[NickinFrance]

Hi Nick.
I don't wish to sound scornfull about your last post.

But you're going to

But if a car has a leaking power steering system, the steering could fail, resulting in heavy steering or loss of control.
If the brakes are out of balance you again could loose control if you had to do an emergency stop.
Wrongly fitted tyres again could cause problems in an E stop situation.

That may be the case but none of that is illegal.

When a car has failed it's mot that is immediately logged onto the DVLA data base. So as I was saying, the fuzz already know what is right or wrong about your car once a PNC check is done.

Shame they can't get a NHS computer system working to the same level of efficiency

 

[RogerL]

But if a car has a leaking power steering system, the steering could fail, resulting in heavy steering or loss of control.

Failed power steering doesn't amount to unroadworthiness - it happens all the time to a lot of cars if their cambelt or auxilliary belt fails while driving - yes it's disconcerting and heavy but try getting any recompense from the manufacturer even when the failing belt is under warranty.

 

[Gabsgrandad]

The vehicle wasn't mine in fact it was the sons. It failer its mot on a ABS warning light coming on. A switch fault, the abs was working fine, and a switch was on order. The garage assured him it was safe to drive with the light on. It reset when ignition turned off but came on again later.
My opinion was that it would immediately show on a PNC check that it was out of compliance on mot, as surely the new one would overwrite the old one.
But the garage thought different, and that the new mot would only take over from the new one on the date of expiry.
As it happened it was sorted in a day or two, with no consequences. But the question is still grey, was it no mot therefore no insurance?
Life's never simple is it?

 

[RogerL]

The vehicle wasn't mine in fact it was the sons. It failer its mot on a ABS warning light coming on. A switch fault, the abs was working fine, and a switch was on order. The garage assured him it was safe to drive with the light on. It reset when ignition turned off but came on again later.
My opinion was that it would immediately show on a PNC check that it was out of compliance on mot, as surely the new one would overwrite the old one.
But the garage thought different, and that the new mot would only take over from the new one on the date of expiry.
As it happened it was sorted in a day or two, with no consequences. But the question is still grey, was it no mot therefore no insurance?
Life's never simple is it?

In the circumstances you describe I don't think it's grey at all.
The car had a valid MoT certificate, the old one is still valid despite the failure. In-operative ABS doesn't make a car unroadworthy (millions without it are still around) so no offence has been committed nor has the car been unsafe.

 

[Surfer]

I have also been told by a pretty reliable source that the camera resolution on the most recent systems being supplied to the agencies can pick up road fund tax discs as well - BIG BROTHER is watching!!!

I can't quite see the need for the camera resolution to allow the tax discs to be read. Surely, it can't be rocket science to be able to check whether a vehicle is taxed or not simply on the basis of number plate identification.

That's exactly how ANPR works - reads the registration number and checks on a DVLA database - that way it also picks up uninsured cars and cars involved in criminal activities.

I suppose the ability to read the tax disc helps if the number plate has been cloned.

 

[Surfer]

The vehicle wasn't mine in fact it was the sons. It failer its mot on a ABS warning light coming on. A switch fault, the abs was working fine, and a switch was on order. The garage assured him it was safe to drive with the light on. It reset when ignition turned off but came on again later.
My opinion was that it would immediately show on a PNC check that it was out of compliance on mot, as surely the new one would overwrite the old one.
But the garage thought different, and that the new mot would only take over from the new one on the date of expiry.
As it happened it was sorted in a day or two, with no consequences. But the question is still grey, was it no mot therefore no insurance?
Life's never simple is it?

If the ABS was working okay but the switch failed, surely that would be an advisory as the car is technically roadworthy?

 

[NickinFrance]

If the ABS was working okay but the switch failed, surely that would be an advisory as the car is technically roadworthy?

No, if the ABS light doesn't come on with the ignition & go out 5 seconds later, it's a fail but as the brakes still work it's roadworthy, as I said above there are a number of things that would make a car fail an MoT that don't effect it's roadworthyness.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Lutz and Roger,
I don't know for certain the reason why these new camera have enhanced resolution, but three things do come to mind,
The ability to check the expirey date of a tax disc could lead to prosecutions for failure to display a current tax disc.
Secondly with such enhanced resolution and light attainment, it may be possible to photgraph as a car approaches without a flash, and thus help to identify the driver at the time if a speeding offence is detected..
And the source also implied that cracked windscreens can also be detected!.

Dont shoot me I'm only relating information that was passed to me from what I beleive to be a reliable source.

 

[RogerL]

John - the Truvelo speeding cameras, with 2 round apertures not square, can and do photograph speeding vehicles approaching or receeding from the camera - these have been around for some years and can generally be used to identify the driver where the car is approaching.

 

[Steve L]

Hi Nick.
I don't wish to sound scornfull about your last post.

But you're going to

But if a car has a leaking power steering system, the steering could fail, resulting in heavy steering or loss of control.
If the brakes are out of balance you again could loose control if you had to do an emergency stop.
Wrongly fitted tyres again could cause problems in an E stop situation.

That may be the case but none of that is illegal.

When a car has failed it's mot that is immediately logged onto the DVLA data base. So as I was saying, the fuzz already know what is right or wrong about your car once a PNC check is done.

Shame they can't get a NHS computer system working to the same level of efficiency

And this is why I said what I did Nick. Below is a copy/paste of the info you researched on the subject.
MOT Failure Question
A question that is often asked follows:
If car fails MOT is the old test certificate still valid until its expiry date?
Well the answer does not seem to be found on any of the government information about the MOT test, so we emailed VOSA with this question and this is their response:
"An MOT certificate is valid until its expiry date. However if your vehicle fails a test before this date and you do not rectify the defects then you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence."
So to put this into context if your car fails the MOT due to illegal tyres then you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle, you were driving unroadworthy vehicle before the MOT, and you will be driving an unroadworthy vehicle until you get a new tyre. Therefore at anytime if caught you would be subject to a £2500 fine and 3 points per illegal tyre.
However once you get a new tyre your car is roadworthy and the old MOT is still valid until its expiry date, thus you can then drive your car again and get it retested to your timescale, with out worrying about driving without an MOT.
This is a very good reason to book your Mot early and give yourself plenty of time to book a retest if needed.
Read it and it validates all the comments I made about driving a vehicle with defective MOT testable items when it has failed it's MOT test.
My final point would be that if you get the car repaired and good enough codition to pass the re-test which is usually free as MOT test garages try to keep customers happy.
WHY TEMPT FATE WITH INSURANCE COMPANIES AND THE WRATH OF THE POLICE. Just get the re-test done and have a MOT upto 4 weeks sooner than the expirey of the old certificate, as the new certificate would carry the previous certificate's aniversary date. I E, the old mot expires 31st dec 2011. New MOT issued today would expire 31st dec 2012. Simples!

Unless of cause you want to wind them up. To me it would be like poking a wasp's nest and expecting not to get stung.

 

[NickinFrance]

And this is why I said what I did Nick. Below is a copy/paste of the info you researched on the subject.
MOT Failure Question
A question that is often asked follows:
If car fails MOT is the old test certificate still valid until its expiry date?
Well the answer does not seem to be found on any of the government information about the MOT test, so we emailed VOSA with this question and this is their response:
"An MOT certificate is valid until its expiry date. However if your vehicle fails a test before this date and you do not rectify the defects then you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence."

I appologise for using that link, the answer is wrong.
As I said, there are a number of things that would make a car fail an MoT test, not all would make the car unroadworthy.
As Abraham Lincoln said: 'The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to discern whether or not they are genuine.'