Car Insurance continue to spiral😥😥

[ProfJohnL]

We are still in the infancy stages of going electric for transport, and as with every new adopted technology, it would naive to suggest that all the risk's are fully understood, becasue humans will inevitably find some unforeseen way of messing up.

Because of the industries infancy, repair costs of EV's are still comparatively high, as so many new models are being introduced the motor trade has not established all the necessary repair infrastructure and parts supplies that ICE vehicles have enjoyed for 60 odd years. This means parts have to be supplied from the Car manufacturers who do tend to charge premium prices.

Also the repair industries are not fully transitioned to deal with EV's and with so many new makes and models, the technical information about how to repair has not become indigenous meaning there are presently limited numbers of repair centers able to handle EV's.

Short supply of parts, limited access to EV ready repair facilities has forced the cost of EV repairs up, and that also forces insurance companies to raise prices.

As EV's become more embedded in the UK's car stock, all the above points should begin to ease, and relative costs of repairs compared to ICE will begin level out.

I'm also confident that a range of insurance companies will continue to operate in the car market if they can see there is a profit to be made.

However I do partly blame the car manufacturers for the present situation. Virtually every one of them began their EV car ranges with high end models, and endowed them with prodigious performance, which has set a benchmark expectation in the buying public who now demand blistering acceleration.

If the manufacturers had gone for more modest horsepower figures and made their products have a performance closer to the ICE equivalents, smaller, lighter and less expensive batteries could have been used.

If the report noted in earlier replies that has suggested many of the EV incident are a result of driver inexperience of such massive power would have been avoided.

 

[Dustydog]

Arguably repairing an EV body panel, composite or metal, shouldn’t cost more than an ICE.
Experience to date has highlighted a phenomenon “ Thermal Runaway”.
This seems to be a major factor causing Insurers and their repairers the current concerns.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...dc62c00&pid=1-s2.0-S2590174522001337-main.pdf

 

[Raywood]

If parts are in short supply the manufacturers are to blame. Quite simply they should not launch models of any type unless they can fully support it.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If parts are in short supply the manufacturers are to blame. Quite simply they should not launch models of any type unless they can fully support it.

That is certainly one reason why repair costs are raised, but unlime new cars, older models often have pattern parts or even OEM supplied parts available through the repair trades suppliers, which avoid the Car manufacturers premium.

Pattern part providers want to see which parts are most commonly needed before the decide to commit to producing parts. They cannot do that until some history has been generated, and the design has been released by the car manufacturer.

With the plethora of brand new models, and new manufactures beginning to sell in the UK its going to take some time before low cost parts become available.

 

[Buckman]

I doubt if EVs will become mainstream cars within the next 20-30 years, if ever, so costs for insuring them will remain high.

 

[otherclive]

I doubt if EVs will become mainstream cars within the next 20-30 years, if ever, so costs for insuring them will remain high.

In terms of EV as a percentage of the whole motoring population you may have a point, but in terms of sales percentage they will rapidly overtake ICE until the ban on new ICE or PHEV comes in in 2035. Despite the HMG announcement seeming to defer the 2030 deadline on ICE sales there’s still a requirement for 80% of cars and 70% of vans to be electric by 2030, and 100% by 2035. If that’s not mainstream I don’t know what is. I even think if government or EU changed the deadlines it’s too late to realistically change the manufacturers development and production plans, as they could loose out massively to cheaper Chinese EVs entering the market.

 

[Dustydog]

In terms of EV as a percentage of the whole motoring population you may have a point, but in terms of sales percentage they will rapidly overtake ICE until the ban on new ICE or PHEV comes in in 2035. Despite the HMG announcement seeming to defer the 2030 deadline on ICE sales there’s still a requirement for 80% of cars and 70% of vans to be electric by 2030, and 100% by 2035. If that’s not mainstream I don’t know what is. I even think if government or EU changed the deadlines it’s too late to realistically change the manufacturers development and production plans, as they could loose out massively to cheaper Chinese EVs entering the market.

I believe the Jury is out on that one. Numerous technical papers have been written in the last three years by well established bodies who are frank in comment.
We have an election on the horizon. Those pushing for EVs may not get elected as the EV is realistically beyond the pocket of the average citizen as is the cost of running and maintaining them .
Castrol’s paper is a decent unbiased view which is very relevant today.
My views remain unaltered. It is not scrap EVs but get the pricing , timing and infrastructure in place first , please.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business/analysis-when-will-evs-become-mainstream

 

[Hutch]

I drove through central London yesterday from the North to Dulwich and then home later to Milton Keynes. There is now way people can recharge the EV 's under normal parking circumstances. My son lives on east Dulwich road in a 4 story house , no parking, side roads are a parking nightmare. Absolutely no chance of parking near your home so not a chance to recharge.
Rant almost over.

 

[otherclive]

I believe the Jury is out on that one. Numerous technical papers have been written in the last three years by well established bodies who are frank in comment.
We have an election on the horizon. Those pushing for EVs may not get elected as the EV is realistically beyond the pocket of the average citizen as is the cost of running and maintaining them .
Castrol’s paper is a decent unbiased view which is very relevant today.
My views remain unaltered. It is not scrap EVs but get the pricing , timing and infrastructure in place first , please.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business/analysis-when-will-evs-become-mainstream

Good article not made easy to read by the Early Bird subscription offer ad. But what it doesn’t address is that for many journeys it is not essential to charge from 10-80%. which always seems to be the yardstick. What’s wrong with a smaller recharge then top up at destination. My grandson has no charging point on the house for his Tesla or 5 series PHEV. They get done at work bot as he’s passing somewhere convenient such as a supermarket. He’s adapted to the regime and says he loves driving electric and wouldn’t be going back to ICE. His mother refuses him access to the charging point he had fitted to her house. It distorts her energy usage and gets messy with SSE

As I drive around I’m surprised at how many EV charging stations there are but they aren’t glaringly obvious, but no doubt appear on apps.

The current cars are basically first generation and doubtless improvements will be introduced. Solid state batteries are being mooted for more range and quicker charging. As far as pricing is concerned there are signs the market is turning. Tesla announced significant reductions recently. And the new Chinese makes are marketing models cheaper than their European equivalent. £40k for an Astra EV. Look at the price of the BYD and MG equivalent. If Stellantis et al don’t respond then their future may not be that bright.

 

[Dustydog]

Good article not made easy to read by the Early Bird subscription offer ad. But what it doesn’t address is that for many journeys it is not essential to charge from 10-80%. which always seems to be the yardstick. What’s wrong with a smaller recharge then top up at destination. My grandson has no charging point on the house for his Tesla or 5 series PHEV. They get done at work bot as he’s passing somewhere convenient such as a supermarket. He’s adapted to the regime and says he loves driving electric and wouldn’t be going back to ICE. His mother refuses him access to the charging point he had fitted to her house. It distorts her energy usage and gets messy with SSE

As I drive around I’m surprised at how many EV charging stations there are but they aren’t glaringly obvious, but no doubt appear on apps.

The current cars are basically first generation and doubtless improvements will be introduced. Solid state batteries are being mooted for more range and quicker charging. As far as pricing is concerned there are signs the market is turning. Tesla announced significant reductions recently. And the new Chinese makes are marketing models cheaper than their European equivalent. £40k for an Astra EV. Look at the price of the BYD and MG equivalent. If Stellantis et al don’t respond then their future may not be that bright.

Good show Clive. But in our case most of our journeys are long haul 100 m plus or towing. As a commuter job we are getting closer but not at the pricing . Whilst yi7 and Imcan probably afford the price can everyone else🤔

 

[otherclive]

Good show Clive. But in our case most of our journeys are long haul 100 m plus or towing. As a commuter job we are getting closer but not at the pricing . Whilst yi7 and Imcan probably afford the price can everyone else🤔

I think it’s going to be a long while before the towing equation comes into balance to rival diesel or petrol for ease of use. It may never come into balance for the ordinary user.

 

[Buckman]

On Saturday afternoon we passed a car park that had been "modernised" with 4 parking bays for charging EVs. This is in an affluent area, but cars being charged at the time.

 

[otherclive]

If no cars were being charged at the time it’s probably because most charge at home or work. Couple along the road from us have just purchased a new Niro PHEV and I asked when the charging point was being fitted. They don’t want one so charge it using an outdoor 13amp supply or pop round to a Lidls that has two chargers. They get 30 miles on electric and so their charging regime meets the majority of their motoring needs apart from occasional journeys when they are happy to run on petrol.

 

[Buckman]

If no cars were being charged at the time it’s probably because most charge at home or work. Couple along the road from us have just purchased a new Niro PHEV and I asked when the charging point was being fitted. They don’t want one so charge it using an outdoor 13amp supply or pop round to a Lidls that has two chargers. They get 30 miles on electric and so their charging regime meets the majority of their motoring needs apart from occasional journeys when they are happy to run on petrol.

Fair enough, but the car park never had any fuel pumps installed so discrimination is being practised.

 

[otherclive]

Fair enough, but the car park never had any fuel pumps installed so discrimination is being practised.

Just hope the EV owners don’t leave them plugged in while in town for two hours shopping. Some charging points levy additional charges for overstaying when the car has finished charging.

 

[Hutch]

Just hope the EV owners don’t leave them plugged in while in town for two hours shopping. Some charging points levy additional charges for overstaying when the car has finished charging.

A bit like people leaving their car at a fuel pump and then doing shopping in a fuel station supermarket.

 

[Buckman]

Just hope the EV owners don’t leave them plugged in while in town for two hours shopping. Some charging points levy additional charges for overstaying when the car has finished charging.

No real shops around the car park where you can spend even half an hour or more shopping. I don't think we have ever seen that car park full.

 

[otherclive]

A bit like people leaving their car at a fuel pump and then doing shopping in a fuel station supermarket.

That really does annoy me. Plus there should be separate queues or checkouts for those with shopping, otherwise you can be waiting long enough to charge an EV😂

 

[Buckman]

A bit like people leaving their car at a fuel pump and then doing shopping in a fuel station supermarket.

Have to agree especially when they get tot eh till and then decide they need something else or need to exchange something. We now avoid the main Esso station with all its facilities preferring the simpler fuel station down the road which surprisingly is always a few pence cheaper. We have to pass it to leave the town due to the one way system.

 

[ProfJohnL]

.....beyond the pocket of the average citizen as is the cost of running and maintaining them .
Castrol’s paper is a decent unbiased view which is very relevant today.....

One of the unassailable truths about EVs is the running costs and maintenance is lower than ICE, and that is how even at today's high purchase price of EVs they are more cost effective and better for the environment than ICE.

I was initially surprised how balanced the article was, but it was some of the conclusions where it began to show who had paid to have the survey and report written.

 

[Buckman]

Those pushing for EVs may not get elected as the EV is realistically beyond the pocket of the average citizen as is the cost of running and maintaining them .

Agreed 100% even if someone is trying to another another pop at my posts. I now actually find it quite amusing just ignore them and everyone lives happily ever after. LOL!

 

[Raywood]

One of the unassailable truths about EVs is the running costs and maintenance is lower than ICE, and that is how even at today's high purchase price of EVs they are more cost effective and better for the environment than ICE.

I was initially surprised how balanced the article was, but it was some of the conclusions where it began to show who had paid to have the survey and report written.

Not sure about the running costs argument. Most analysis I have seen seems to be looking at over 50,000 miles before this happens although a few models are below this. This means looking a way into the future and involves some guesswork assuming you keep the car that long and does not take into account depreciation which at the moment does not favour EV's. nor their higher insurance costs which is beginning to get substantial.
Sales statistics suggest that it is companies buying EV's to help their green image and because of lower taxes, but that the rest of us are less enthusiastic. People I know of with them give out mixed messages on them so the jury seems to be out.
One thing to me is indefensible if you want to promote EV's and that is the 20% tax on using a charging point. If you want to promote the EV's use to people without home charging facilities you need this to go.

 

[RogerL]

Not sure about the running costs argument. Most analysis I have seen seems to be looking at over 50,000 miles before this happens although a few models are below this. This means looking a way into the future and involves some guesswork assuming you keep the car that long and does not take into account depreciation which at the moment does not favour EV's. nor their higher insurance costs which is beginning to get substantial.
Sales statistics suggest that it is companies buying EV's to help their green image and because of lower taxes, but that the rest of us are less enthusiastic. People I know of with them give out mixed messages on them so the jury seems to be out.
One thing to me is indefensible if you want to promote EV's and that is the 20% tax on using a charging point. If you want to promote the EV's use to people without home charging facilities you need this to go.

Other than fuel/energy there's little difference in running costs over the first 3 years, a typical lease period - a service at 2 years for a diesel/petrol and 2 cheaper annual services for an EV - very little should go wrong in that time and covered by warranty if it does.

It's reasonable to expect a modern diesel to go 150,000-200,000 miles over it's whole life - that's when EVs should need less maintenance but few have gone that distance so statistics are scarce.

It's been obvious for a long time that the way that Benefit-In-Kind tax is structured for company car users has a major effect on the choice of new cars being purchased - not always for the better.

 

[Dustydog]

One of the unassailable truths about EVs is the running costs and maintenance is lower than ICE, and that is how even at today's high purchase price of EVs they are more cost effective and better for the environment than ICE.

I was initially surprised how balanced the article was, but it was some of the conclusions where it began to show who had paid to have the survey and report written.

Priceless 😆
Surely we are allowed to accept detailed analyses from SMMT and consultants Frost & Sullivan are impartial?
Sorry but I can’t get your concept on running costs. The numbers don’t add up

 

[Raywood]

Other than fuel/energy there's little difference in running costs over the first 3 years, a typical lease period - a service at 2 years for a diesel/petrol and 2 cheaper annual services for an EV - very little should go wrong in that time and covered by warranty if it does.

It's reasonable to expect a modern diesel to go 150,000-200,000 miles over it's whole life - that's when EVs should need less maintenance but few have gone that distance so statistics are scarce.

It's been obvious for a long time that the way that Benefit-In-Kind tax is structured for company car users has a major effect on the choice of new cars being purchased - not always for the better.

The costs equation seems to possibly be down to how you recharge the EV. If you can fit a charger to your home and use a good tariff you can probably make the EV viable, my neighbour thinks so but he also backs this up with solar panels that allow what he free charging in an afternoon although this ignores the money he would make from a feed in tariff. Trying to predict future costs is simply not possible as you are totally unable to get that accurate as things change far too fast, so future costings are pure guesswork. Costing three or four years from now are bound to e wrong.
If you have to charge elsewhere then the cost of charging will change the equation in favour of ICE in most cases. Again if the battery will not manage the 150,000 mile mark then the cars life is that of the batteries, as at that point they cost more than the car is worth.