Car Insurance continue to spiral😥😥

[Tobes]

My youngest is about to start a job with the police. Her round trip (at least initialy) will be about 80 miles a day for 5 days a week. In a 50 MPG car with petrol at £1.50/l thats about £52 a week in fuel. £200 a month. She is looking at a 1 year old top end Renault ZoE as a possible car. The same journey when charged from home will be about £1.80 in electricity (80/4miles per kWh * 9p per kWh) , or £36 a month. That leaves a budget of £166 to fund a suitable car. Right now she can pick up a used ZoE like this one for (22 plate, 5K miles, 5K down, 18K mies a year) for £148 a month.
A Renault Clio petrol (basically the same car) (22 plate, 6k miles) is £150 a month (same terms). I.e. given the saving in fuel costs alone - the EV is better than free compared to the petrol car...

The These savings are undeniable. For others they may not work out.

 

[Buckman]

Again we have the EV nonsense rammed down our throats! Most of us have no intention of getting an EV due to costs and them not being a viable option.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Please let's keep this discussion civilised.

EVs work for some folks and not others. It's up to each to make up their own mind

 

[Buckman]

Please let's keep this discussion civilised.

EVs work for some folks and not others. It's up to each to make up their own mind

Thread is generally supposed to be about car insurance costs spiralling, but somehow purchasing an EV is a better option for some obscure reason? No objection to discussion of insurance of any type of vehicle.

 

[Dustydog]

I see Tobes idea but it’s not something I’d be happy for my own daughter especially as a winter car.
Fleet news tested the Zoe and amongst lots of data said:-

Real range estimation
Between 110 - 235 mi

City - cold weather *
155 mi
Highway - cold weather *
110 mi

Can she charge the car at the police premises?
My son uses a brand new Vauxhall Vivaro and says round town it’s fine but on long normal traffic speeds the usable mileage decreases quite dramatically.
Not his choice but the employer who wants to be green!

Whatever I do hope Tobes daughter remains safe with the Zoe

 

[otherclive]

My youngest is about to start a job with the police. Her round trip (at least initialy) will be about 80 miles a day for 5 days a week. In a 50 MPG car with petrol at £1.50/l thats about £52 a week in fuel. £200 a month. She is looking at a 1 year old top end Renault ZoE as a possible car. The same journey when charged from home will be about £1.80 in electricity (80/4miles per kWh * 9p per kWh) , or £36 a month. That leaves a budget of £166 to fund a suitable car. Right now she can pick up a used ZoE like this one for (22 plate, 5K miles, 5K down, 18K mies a year) for £148 a month.
A Renault Clio petrol (basically the same car) (22 plate, 6k miles) is £150 a month (same terms). I.e. given the saving in fuel costs alone - the EV is better than free compared to the petrol car...

The savings are undeniable.

I am trying to get our daughter to go full EV when the lease on her Toyota Corrola ends in in early 2024 but she’s a bit reluctant on range, yet has a 7 kw home charging point, and would never go beyond 200 miles per day, and certainly not for her normal community nursing visits. Her son has two electric cars, a full EV Tesla, and 5 series PHEV and no charging point at his house. He’s working with his mother to look at the sums, as hers is NHS lease BIK is a factor too.

 

[otherclive]

Again we have the EV nonsense rammed down our throats! Most of us have no intention of getting an EV due to costs and them not being a viable option.

Our plans are to buy an EV circa 2025 and have been now for two years. That’s when we thought we may go down to one car. The plans could change but after we are now settled in to two petrol cars, one with a warranty until August 2029 our thoughts could change. I think with the introduction of Chinese brands into the UK the real cost may start to come down.

 

[otherclive]

Thread is generally supposed to be about car insurance costs spiralling, but somehow purchasing an EV is a better option for some obscure reason? No objection to discussion of insurance of any type of vehicle.

Or the tiresomeness of queuing at a petrol station when others decide to buy goods and block the pumps, or four parking bays resized for EVs etc. Stones and glasshouses spring to mind. .

 

[Tobes]

Again we have the EV nonsense rammed down our throats! Most of us have no intention of getting an EV due to costs and them not being a viable option.

No ramming going on - I was just pointing out the cost savings for my daughters specific situation. I have amended the post to say so.

As I have previously acknowledged - "I don't want one" is a perfectly good reason not get one.

 

[Tobes]

I see Tobes idea but it’s not something I’d be happy for my own daughter especially as a winter car.
Fleet news tested the Zoe and amongst lots of data said:-

Real range estimation
Between 110 - 235 mi

City - cold weather *
155 mi
Highway - cold weather *
110 mi

Can she charge the car at the police premises?
My son uses a brand new Vauxhall Vivaro and says round town it’s fine but on long normal traffic speeds the usable mileage decreases quite dramatically.
Not his choice but the employer who wants to be green!

Whatever I do hope Tobes daughter remains safe with the Zoe

@Dustydog, we already have one ZoE in the house so have some lived experience with range, and it is as good (if not better) than my Polestar 2. The Fleet news article may well be looking that the whole range of ZoEs available, as there have been 3 different battery sizes over the years (23, 41 and 52kWh) with very different range results. I would be 100% confident of achieving well over 150miles of range in the worst winter conditions from the ZoE ZE50 (the latest iteration).
Indeed - a quick look at the EV-database shows that these are the numbers for the older R90 (2017 - 2019) with 41kWh battery.
The change in capabilities over a short space of time is quite significant.

 

[Dustydog]

Tobes
What surely matters to us all is the safety of our families. I hinted at this earlier. May I suggest you investigate the accuracy of this report on the Zoe’ s NCAP rating which is allegedly Zero.
BTW this is not about EVs per se but pure safety.

Renault Zoe’s safety rating crashes with zero rating from NCAP | Electrifying

Zoe stripped of its stars following an airbag downgrade, while Dacia Spring gets just one star. Read more on Electrifying.com

www.electrifying.com

 

[Tobes]

Tobes
What surely matters to us all is the safety of our families. I hinted at this earlier. May I suggest you investigate the accuracy of this report on the Zoe’ s NCAP rating which is allegedly Zero.
BTW this is not about EVs per se but pure safety.

Renault Zoe’s safety rating crashes with zero rating from NCAP | Electrifying

Zoe stripped of its stars following an airbag downgrade, while Dacia Spring gets just one star. Read more on Electrifying.com

www.electrifying.com

Thanks @Dustydog.

Yes - I am aware of the 0 NCAP rating, which stems from two areas. 1) The change in the side airbags and 2) the lack of Electronic driver aids and collision avoidance systems. NCAP is an evolving test and evolving target. A car that achieved a 5 rating in previous years, may get a 0 today.

So - moving from a 2015 Kia Picanto (almost no diver aids beyond ABS, and no side airbags) to an 2022 ZoE with cruise, lane keeping, collision avoidance, Emergency braking, seatbelt pre-tensioners, and half side airbags is a massive step up.

Risk is relative and something to be evaluated understood in context.

 

[Dustydog]

Agreed risk is relative but surely the man in the street has to pay heed to technical independent guides?
In principle it is your choice of course which I for one respect. But equally I will not recommend something where an expert / scientist will not give it a clean bill of health.
Eg , before we book a site we always check the overall ratings , same with food hygiene ratings and pharmaceutical endorsement.

 

[Tobes]

Agreed risk is relative but surely the man in the street has to pay heed to technical independent guides?
In principle it is your choice of course which I for one respect. But equally I will not recommend something where an expert / scientist will not give it a clean bill of health.
Eg , before we book a site we always check the overall ratings , same with food hygiene ratings and pharmaceutical endorsement.

Of course taking heed is important - but that's my point; understand the basis from which the advice or guide is derived. Then use the information to inform your decision.

When we bought it, the Kia was not NCAP 0. If tested today, it would be. Does that make the ZoE better or worse than the Kia from a safety perspective? Taken on original test alone, it looks worse. In practice - it's much better. Is it "good enough"? Thats a personal choice.

When you book a site, or look at food hygiene ratings, do you look at the absolute number alone, or look at the date that the reviews / inspection was carried out, and perhaps take heed from multiple sources.

A restaurant with a 5 star hygiene rating from 3 years ago, which has a number of bad reviews that suggest a change of ownership may have taken place gives different perspective.

 

[otherclive]

It is not always feasible to try and always meet latest safety regulations. I bet many of us live in homes that don't meet Edition 18 of the IET regulation. Do we feel unsafe? No. With cars the Zoe received 5 stars when it was introduced in 2013 but since then the NCAP has been revised five times. Many must be driving around in cars that don't meet the current five star requirements. My Kia Rio 2017 the basic model was awarded 5 stars.Now it is 3 stars. Ours, a model 2, had extra safety aids such as auto braking, lane departure warning, which may have elevated it to 4 star.I have no idea what rating it would get now. But when we bought it the structural protection rating was good and the overall safety of the car was substantially better than the 2007 Nissan Note that we had prior to the Rio. A similar situation to Tobes daughter's position. Did I feel unsafe in the Rio? Certainly not, as it was better than the old Nissan Note.

Two of my key criteria for a car are Reliability and Safety.
When we bought a new Forester SJ 2014 model it was vaunted as one of the very top cars for safety in Europe, Japan and North America, beating the traded in Volvo XC 70 2010 by miles. But where does that Forester stand now? Would I drive it now? Certainly. There's always a balance to be struck and at times you have to look beyond the implied psychological pressure to go for the best and settle for something less., but which is still substantially better than what you currently have. In which case you have achieved your own ALARP status.

 

[Buckman]

As usual the thread has veered well away from car insurance due to someone implying that an EV was a better buy than an ICE vehicle. Maybe they should have started a new thread on the merits and drawbacks of owning an EV?

 

[otherclive]

As usual the thread has veered well away from car insurance due to someone implying that an EV was a better buy than an ICE vehicle. Maybe they should have started a new thread on the merits and drawbacks of owning an EV?

At least the diversion is being conducted in a positive manner by the participants.

 

[Buckman]

At least the diversion is being conducted in a positive manner by the participants.

If a new thread had been started as a comparison between deciding what vehicle is best for someone else, but not the poster would have been more positive. After all insurance was never mentioned in the post, but lease costs were mentioned. No wonder I hate EVs. LOL!

 

[otherclive]

If a new thread had been started as a comparison between deciding what vehicle is best for someone else, but not the poster would have been more positive. After all insurance was never mentioned in the post, but lease costs were mentioned. No wonder I hate EVs. LOL!

If you read page 6 and earlier you will see insurance being discussed. I’m sure if the mods are concerned they would step in.

 

[Mr Plodd]

This thread has veered far from its original subject, so I feel its time it was locked.
Those who wish to continue arguing about EV versus ICE can use the thread devoted to that subject and leave this one to discuss insurance.

 

[otherclive]

As Roger L posted at #4 EVs are having an effect on insurance prices. Whatever one’s views on EVs the facts are that they are here and the numbers are going to increase. So their impact on the insurance prices isn’t going to go away. Wrt a very recent post in page 6 regarding the costs of running a Zoe electric car versus its ICE equivalent I found that particularly informative. In fact having a member who has real l life experience of running EV and PHEV including towing, commuting and running around is to be welcomed.

I’m quite happy to let the appointed moderators decide on the suitability of posts.

 

[Parksy]

If there are no personal attacks which are against forum rules, there's no reason why a thread shouldn't meander from time to time.
EVs are a fact, some drivers are for them, others not, but they all have to be insured.

 

[Dustydog]

https://forums.practicalcaravan.com/threads/cmc-6m-rule-and-ev-fires.66604/reply?quote=587787
from Woodsieboy endorses why the Insurance industry is very cautious in their underwriting attitude to EVs .
There is a trend for Insurers to stop underwriting motor insurance and some will only insure ICEs.
Whilst some may say we are on a learning curve I don’t see why the ICE‘s should subsidise the EV Insurance cost.

 

[Mr Plodd]

I don’t see why the ICE‘s should subsidise the EV Insurance cost.

EV owners will doubtless hold a diametrically opposite view! (Probably)

 

[Dustydog]

EV owners will doubtless hold a diametrically opposite view! (Probably)

Oh well it‘s nearly Guy Fawkes, time to light the blue touch paper😉