You don't legally have to tell your insurance provider that you've been on a speed awareness course, unless they specifically ask you.
You don't legally have to tell your insurance provider that you've been on a speed awareness course, unless they specifically ask you.
If they ask "any accidents, claims or convictions" then all accidents, however minor, should be declared.
Nothing to do with expectations, just a basic English question.
So what would you tell the insurer, in the case of a small dent appearing on your car in a carpark when you were not with your car . ?
Parksy
Moderator
Prof
I know that your intentions are honourable, but we can't and won't act as a sort of caravan police force.
What people decide to do in their private lives is entirely up to them.
Your condemnation of non disclosure to insurance companies when they have incurred zero financial loss is duly noted, but forum members must be allowed to discuss this issue among themselves without blanket condemnation and a rigid interpretation of forum rules.
About 6 years ago I turned into the farm I use for storage. An artic was parked opposite being loaded, at first I waited up the road and walked down and told the driver I was in no hurry. He volunteered to move a bit, and we both thought there was enough room. On turning in the rear of the van swung out, as they do, the driver, in his cab, had retracted his mirror, nevertheless the van pushed against the mirror. Very little damage to the van or the mirror. But the mirror pushed against the drivers window which exploded.
I admitted fault and we shared insurance details. I reserved the right to pay cash if that worked out best.
As it happened I was insured with LV. My insurance finished in about 1 week and I had already agreed the following years premium. I reported the incident. LV said if the other vehicle was stationary, then it was clearly my fault. They had to adjust my premium “as though I had made the claim”. They promised to repay the difference if the claim did not go through in 6 months. The lorry company did not make a claim. LV paid me back without prompting.
So, LV at least, do not make a charge on an accident if no claim is made.
However, I have heard that some companies do. They excuse this by saying that you put the car into a ‘risk’ area.
John
I admitted fault and we shared insurance details. I reserved the right to pay cash if that worked out best.
As it happened I was insured with LV. My insurance finished in about 1 week and I had already agreed the following years premium. I reported the incident. LV said if the other vehicle was stationary, then it was clearly my fault. They had to adjust my premium “as though I had made the claim”. They promised to repay the difference if the claim did not go through in 6 months. The lorry company did not make a claim. LV paid me back without prompting.
So, LV at least, do not make a charge on an accident if no claim is made.
However, I have heard that some companies do. They excuse this by saying that you put the car into a ‘risk’ area.
John
From memory, the last time I changed my car insurer they asked the question "Any accidents, claims or convictions in the last 5 years" which is a more realistic question than just "any accidents, claims or convictions".
But for those who are questioning the wisdom of not declaring, with the way the Insurance industry now works, and the quite extreme powers of investigation they can muster, if a non disclosure is discovered - even from postings on social networks, it might come back to bite you.
But for those who are questioning the wisdom of not declaring, with the way the Insurance industry now works, and the quite extreme powers of investigation they can muster, if a non disclosure is discovered - even from postings on social networks, it might come back to bite you.
I think accident needs defining. Thanks for the advice Prof but having worked in the motor industry and seen how many dings and scratches are fixed for next to nothing by dentless repair companies and smart repair bods I won't be losing sleep if I in future don't report a minor scratch or even the back of a wing mirror. The last BMW I valeted had lots of teeny supermarket door dings all invisible after an afternoon by a paintless dent dent wizard. No one reported them and the new owner nor any insurance company would know. Lovely low miles car, one senior cit owner FSH. If I claim they'll know or if I mod my car. My last second hand car could have been the same(New one now).How would I know.
My daughter wrote her 2009 Fiat 500off. Minor damage . I was going to buy the car back but noticed the bump had shown up a fair bit of filler from its previous life. The insurance company paid out in full at top book due to its low miles FSH and new parts without even mention of the filler nor did they suspect her. They simply don't . Unless major fraud is suspected. I bought a cat D Golf R32. It was advertised as such and I sold I as such. Had it been sold to me as as perfect or me sold it on as such that would be serious fraud and could've been investigated.
My question to you Prof. Let's say hypothetically this BMW was yours or this heaven forbid this happened to you. You came out of a shop and there was a tiny dint in your door, no paint damage. As on this BMW, you'd tell your insurance company Dent wizard had fixed it for£70?
My daughter wrote her 2009 Fiat 500off. Minor damage . I was going to buy the car back but noticed the bump had shown up a fair bit of filler from its previous life. The insurance company paid out in full at top book due to its low miles FSH and new parts without even mention of the filler nor did they suspect her. They simply don't . Unless major fraud is suspected. I bought a cat D Golf R32. It was advertised as such and I sold I as such. Had it been sold to me as as perfect or me sold it on as such that would be serious fraud and could've been investigated.
My question to you Prof. Let's say hypothetically this BMW was yours or this heaven forbid this happened to you. You came out of a shop and there was a tiny dint in your door, no paint damage. As on this BMW, you'd tell your insurance company Dent wizard had fixed it for£70?
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I suspect that in the situation that you describe the majority of correspondents to the Forum would either live with it, repair it themselves as I recently did with my daughters car, or use a minor repair specialist. All without informing their insurer.
As a regular poster I need to say the following so there no ambiguity or come back on me .
I was originally curious on everyones views on what is a very fundamental important matter.
What is a “Material fact that must be declared”?
Under English law, every circumstance is material if it would influence the judgement of a prudent insurer in fixing the premium and/or the terms
of the insurance and/or determining whether to accept the risk. This refers to “any” prudent insurer, not just the insurer who has been offered the risk.
A circumstance may be material even if disclosure would not necessarily lead to an increased premium or declinature of the risk.
Sorry to admit, the final arbiter must be the Insurer. Not us😥.
Technically and without doubt , in accordance with most motor policies contractual wordings it is
incumbent on the policy holder to declare everything, shopping trolley bump not excluded.
I don’t like it but that’s how it is👍👍 Ducks out now from the flack😵💫😵💫😵💫
I was originally curious on everyones views on what is a very fundamental important matter.
What is a “Material fact that must be declared”?
Under English law, every circumstance is material if it would influence the judgement of a prudent insurer in fixing the premium and/or the terms
of the insurance and/or determining whether to accept the risk. This refers to “any” prudent insurer, not just the insurer who has been offered the risk.
A circumstance may be material even if disclosure would not necessarily lead to an increased premium or declinature of the risk.
Sorry to admit, the final arbiter must be the Insurer. Not us😥.
Technically and without doubt , in accordance with most motor policies contractual wordings it is
incumbent on the policy holder to declare everything, shopping trolley bump not excluded.
I don’t like it but that’s how it is👍👍 Ducks out now from the flack😵💫😵💫😵💫
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I do park as far away from any car in the supermarket but will I think ring my ins company as to what warrants reporting and what might be called wear and tear!
Parksy
Moderator
The chances of any commercial organisation tracking your comments and finding your contact details from this forum are very small indeed.
We use forum usernames and avatars to preserve anonymity, and forum moderators have no access to email addresses or home contact details which are regarded as absolutely private.
You would have to ask the person asking you what they define as an accident.
And your right It is hypothetical as I don't own or use a BMW...
You have to make your own judgement on what you disclose, and be prepared to take the consequences if your pulled up about something you have omitted.
Thanks Prof you're right!!!!! However in the interests of accuracy I'll ring my ins company and infer an answer from your response! Keep you posted.
I don't think anyone has admitted anything here although could be wrong. It's a hypothetical discussion surely, your honour!?
I don't think anyone has admitted anything here although could be wrong. It's a hypothetical discussion surely, your honour!?
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That is probably the worst thing that you can do as when you come out from shopping on either side you will find a car parked although there are dozens of other places they could have parked!
Hand on heart I can confirm SWMBO managed to reverse into the one and only car in a car park🤬🤬🤬
The problem with what you should report as an accident is a matter of opinion and I know of nothing that defines that and indeed it is hard t o come up with a definition that will cover any situation. I know some insurers have been taking issue with minor and even very minor marks on cars but I find this offensive. In the modern world an odd scratch or dent has become a fact of life rather than being an accident.
All claims made now are recorded centrally so even if another party reports an accident but pays for your damage, then your insurer will be able to find it, so you need to declare it. If either party pays for the others damage but does not report it to their insurer, then the insurer will not be able to trace it, so they will never know about it, and it is up to your conscience as to reporting it. Even if they spot minor damage, in most cases they cannot show when it happened, so cannot argue if you said it was after the renewal or inception of the policy. I am not saying be dishonest but just pointing out the realities of the situation.
Personally I think it is dishonest of insurers to say you are a higher risk of an at fault accident, just because someone hit your car. I cannot see how after that happens you are more likely to cause an accident as it makes not the slightest sense. Nt all companies do this so be careful who you insure with.
All claims made now are recorded centrally so even if another party reports an accident but pays for your damage, then your insurer will be able to find it, so you need to declare it. If either party pays for the others damage but does not report it to their insurer, then the insurer will not be able to trace it, so they will never know about it, and it is up to your conscience as to reporting it. Even if they spot minor damage, in most cases they cannot show when it happened, so cannot argue if you said it was after the renewal or inception of the policy. I am not saying be dishonest but just pointing out the realities of the situation.
Personally I think it is dishonest of insurers to say you are a higher risk of an at fault accident, just because someone hit your car. I cannot see how after that happens you are more likely to cause an accident as it makes not the slightest sense. Nt all companies do this so be careful who you insure with.
Good script thanks Ray.
I’d forgotten about the Insurers access to the shared computer scheme .
.
I’d forgotten about the Insurers access to the shared computer scheme .
.
Doesnt say who/where the accident is reported to. Most times the careless person who swings their door into your car, or squeezes past and scratches your car probably are not even aware of what they have done. So I would be reporting it in total ignorance of who didi it, and I am sure that Sainsbury's et al are not going to offer CCTV recordings. I even once managed to put a ding into the side of the Sorento when playing with a grandson. Damage Undone sorted to with paintless dent removal. But I plead guilty M'Lud in that I did not tell the insurer. And I am pretty certain that despite what their posts may say the majority of Forum members would have done the same as I did.
That is everyone's legal obligations to report or exchange information, (insurance docs etc). At the time of an accident. As opposed to what should be disclosed to ones insurance company at the time of making an application.
It follows that if you should cause say minor damage to another car in a car park. You are obligated to report that to the cars owner. (Perhaps leave a false message on their windscreen
). However that same obligation will not then apply to the damaged vehicles owner. As they may have no evidence as to who caused the damage.As to whether either party discloses the incident to their insurance party is not covered in that legislation. But I do have my own opinion.
John
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