caravan ATC warranty

[Dustydog]

Maybe a poor choice of phrase on my part Prof.
But surely anything that affects the caravans brakes should be treated with a degree of respect, aforethought , concern, consideration etc. I could not treat it as just say another optional extra?
It reminds me of the Boeing MCAS . Look what that did to two aircraft.
If your car's ABS light stays on that’s an MOT failure.
Maybe the caravan industry should treat ATC with the same degree of respect.
If it failed at the wrong time and place the result could be disastrous.
IMO it should a specific item on the AWS service sheet. What service or tests should be done I welcome Al-ko’s thoughts.

 

[Hutch]

.... a working ATC is a requirement of my CAMC insurance policy.
The self test on connection of the 13 pin plug demonstrates that the system is working if a solid green light is showing.
I often experience a tug on the towcar when the ATC system actually applies the caravan brakes.
Uneven roads or rally fields, potholes or taking a roundabout to fast will trigger it.
If I didn't sometimes experience these tugs I would think something wasn't right.
These tugs only ever occur when I'm aware of a jolt to the caravan.......never experienced them under most conditions as my outfit is stable.

The OP gives very little info as to what the problem is.....for instance the towing vehicle electrics have to provide the system with it's 12 volt electrical supply or the system won't work.
Has the 20 amp fuse blown that protects this supply?

I must admit that when I bring my van home from storage, it is not uncommon for me to feel the ATC kick in at least once, around the roundabouts of Milton Keynes.

 

[Dustydog]

I must admit that when I bring my van home from storage, it is not uncommon for me to feel the ATC kick in at least once, around the roundabouts of Milton Keynes.

Stop thinking you’re in the helicopter Hutch!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Maybe a poor choice of phrase on my part Prof.
But surely anything that affects the caravans brakes should be treated with a degree of respect, aforethought , concern, consideration etc. I could not treat it as just say another optional extra?
It reminds me of the Boeing MCAS . Look what that did to two aircraft.
If your car's ABS light stays on that’s an MOT failure.
Maybe the caravan industry should treat ATC with the same degree of respect.
If it failed at the wrong time and place the result could be disastrous.
IMO it should a specific item on the AWS service sheet. What service or tests should be done I welcome Al-ko’s thoughts.

I totally agree the ATC system should be treated with respect, and there's far more than anecdotal evidence to show how effective it can be, so unlike tyre bands its a device which I can support, though I never had one of my own. But as it stands its not a required "safety" system. You can buy new caravans without it fitted.

Its up to the owner to decide how to utilise and maintain it if its fitted. I agree if it's there, then it makes good sense to ensure its is working correctly, but there is no construction and use regulation or moving traffic regulation that requires you to use it. Insures might encourage you to use it, if you have one, but the majority of caravans don't have them.

If it id did fail as you say at the wrong time and place, for it to become disastrous, the driver must also have failed load the outfit properly or to drive badly to have got into that situation.

 

[Hutch]

The problem with trying to assess wether the ATC is operating correctly would involve removing the " gyro" unit and replicating a movement to operate the brakes.
Or I believe the units now have a memory and if connected to a diagnostic unit would confirm that at least the unit is recording movements, again removal and replicating a swerve would have to be done to confirm , costing probably more than an Hour or mores work. Which will go onto the cost of a service.

 

[Hutch]

Stop thinking you’re in the helicopter Hutch!

I wish I could be back up in the air for a while for an air test. Not just a drone flight 🥴

 

[Buckman]

If it id did fail as you say at the wrong time and place, for it to become disastrous, the driver must also have failed load the outfit properly or to drive badly to have got into that situation.

That is a bit of an unfair statement taking into consideration the state of UK roads and the standard of driving.

 

[JTQ]

If it id did fail as you say at the wrong time and place, for it to become disastrous, the driver must also have failed load the outfit properly or to drive badly to have got into that situation.

There can be situations where a correctly loaded towed unit can go unstable.

Whilst loading correctly is vital, there being no suggestion ATC is designed to facilitate poor loading there can be times where you need to swerve for the unexpected, this is not "driving badly" but could well be driving safely.

 

[otherclive]

There can be situations where a correctly loaded towed unit can go unstable.

Whilst loading correctly is vital, there being no suggestion ATC is designed to facilitate poor loading there can be times where you need to swerve for the unexpected, this is not "driving badly" but could well be driving safely.

Precisely why the two Clubs annual Towcar tests include swerve tests at various speeds, and their test caravans are ballasted correctly.

 

[Dustydog]

I’d be very surprised if any Members of this Forum and the others eg Caravan talk didn’t load their caravan correctly.

The Al-ko hitch stabiliser and ATC imo should be a standard fit on all caravans.
Back in the 70s the Scott stabiliser was a must . Correctly loaded , side winds still played a bad part. The Scott helped to damp out the oscillations.It was the fore runner of the Al-ko stabiliser.
It is disappointing the OP hasn’t had any technical help from Al-ko.
Certainly Whale and Powrtouch customer service is legendary in my book.

 

[otherclive]

I’d be very surprised if any Members of this Forum and the others eg Caravan talk didn’t load their caravan correctly.

The Al-ko hitch stabiliser and ATC imo should be a standard fit on all caravans.
Back in the 70s the Scott stabiliser was a must . Correctly loaded , side winds still played a bad part. The Scott helped to damp out the oscillations.It was the fore runner of the Al-ko stabiliser.
It is disappointing the OP hasn’t had any technical help from Al-ko.
Certainly Whale and Powrtouch customer service is legendary in my book.

I had a Bulldog similar design. I used it through until 2005 when we bought a new caravan that came with one of these new fangled Alko things. I know it’s subjective but I felt the Bulldog gave an overall better drive, but it could be a hernia-giver engaging it.

 

[RogerL]

I’d be very surprised if any Members of this Forum and the others eg Caravan talk didn’t load their caravan correctly.

The Al-ko hitch stabiliser and ATC imo should be a standard fit on all caravans.
Back in the 70s the Scott stabiliser was a must . Correctly loaded , side winds still played a bad part. The Scott helped to damp out the oscillations.It was the fore runner of the Al-ko stabiliser.
It is disappointing the OP hasn’t had any technical help from Al-ko.
Certainly Whale and Powrtouch customer service is legendary in my book.

I still have my original Scott-Halley stabiliser in the garage - they let their patents lapse and Bulldog introduced an exact copy - they were a lot of work to set-up correctly, and needed doing every year, but when set-up properly I think they were better than the Alko as they gave an element of weight distribution to reduce the effective noseweight on the car.

I'll hold my hands up and say I've loaded my caravan badly in my earlier years - overloaded and almost zero noseweight - the resulting snake was inevitable - but I'm a lot more aware these days.

 

[otherclive]

I still have my original Scott-Halley stabiliser in the garage - they let their patents lapse and Bulldog introduced an exact copy - they were a lot of work to set-up correctly, and needed doing every year, but when set-up properly I think they were better than the Alko as they gave an element of weight distribution to reduce the effective noseweight on the car.

I'll hold my hands up and say I've loaded my caravan badly in my earlier years - overloaded and almost zero noseweight - the resulting snake was inevitable - but I'm a lot more aware these days.

Mea culpa. 1240 kg on a caravan rated at 1000 kg MTPLM. Don’t ask😱

 

[Dustydog]

Mea culpa. 1240 kg on a caravan rated at 1000 kg MTPLM. Don’t ask😱

Plus another Mea Culpa. In the 70s if I could just lift the hitch the nose weight was good😉

 

[Mr Plodd]

I am another user who has felt the ATC on his caravan activate at odd times, usually on tight French roundabouts (sudden change of direction?) And sometimes on potholes. I actually think that's a good thing, as it confirms to me that it's (apparently) working as it should.
I struggle to see how an ATC unit could be "serviced" as it has accelerometers in it, there is no way of testing them without removing them to do so.

I would imagine that the unit carries out some form of self checking the electronic wizzadry on start up, and would show a Red failure LED if something was amiss. Thats just an assumption on my part, and I could of course be wrong! (But why have the Red/Green LED if not for that very purpose? )

 

[JTQ]

I would imagine that the unit carries out some form of self checking the electronic wizzadry on start up, and would show a Red failure LED if something was amiss. Thats just an assumption on my part, and I could of course be wrong! (But why have the Red/Green LED if not for that very purpose? )

Have I not read on these forums "they" have dropped the LED indicator, or is it some builders don't specify them?

Whichever way if it is correct it is IMO a retrograde economy.

Just because it makes an audible sound indicating it is moving, that is no indication it has fully completed its check and is stowed back clear of the brake application spreader.
It is not going to need much dragging on the brake shoes to grossly overheat the drum and its bits as we tow the miles.

 

[ProfJohnL]

That is a bit of an unfair statement taking into consideration the state of UK roads and the standard of driving.

There can be situations where a correctly loaded towed unit can go unstable.

Whilst loading correctly is vital, there being no suggestion ATC is designed to facilitate poor loading there can be times where you need to swerve for the unexpected, this is not "driving badly" but could well be driving safely.

If a driver is driving too fast for the prevailing road conditions, they are driving too fast.

If the road conditions are poor, drive slower!

If other drivers are driving poorly, slow down or give them space.

The only time a correctly loaded loaded outfit can go unstable is if the driver has lost proper control.

I can't conceive of how ATC system would be caused to engage by any other divers behaviour or actions, it is only triggered by the movements of the outfit it is fitted to

If a driver needs to make an emergency change of direction (Swerve) that wasn't anticipated the driver is not driving safely.

 

[JTQ]

If a driver needs to make an emergency change of direction (Swerve) that wasn't anticipated the driver is not driving safely.

Take a real life situation, on French autoroute, towing at a safe speed neither too fast or too slowly.

If a bike rack with bikes falls off a passing vehicle directly into your path and skids immediately in front of you, is trying to avoid it "not driving" safely?

I would contend its safer than the only other option, given the speed and distances involved, to plough into it.

Not a situation I anticipated, and happening in an instant.

 

[Mr Plodd]

If a driver is driving too fast for the prevailing road conditions, they are driving too fast.

If the road conditions are poor, drive slower!

If other drivers are driving poorly, slow down or give them space.

The only time a correctly loaded loaded outfit can go unstable is if the driver has lost proper control.

I can't conceive of how ATC system would be caused to engage by any other divers behaviour or actions, it is only triggered by the movements of the outfit it is fitted to

If a driver needs to make an emergency change of direction (Swerve) that wasn'o anticipated the driver is not driving safely.

As a driver who has had exceedingly extensive, and expensive, driver training over many years, and knows exactly how to control a vehicle I can assure that is not wholly correct.

Some years ago, empty French autoroute, travelling at 55mph on cruise control my, correctly loaded/not overloaded/nowhere near my towing limit caravan suddenly, and for no discernable reason threw itself into a violent snake!! Was I in full control of my car? Most certainly, up until it started to snake at which point I became a very frightened passenger. I didnt do any steering input as that usually starts an (unrecoverable) pendulum action. The ATC cut in and everything slowly came back to normal.

I really hope you never experience a full on snake as I did, it scared the ***** out of me, and I have had a fair few "hairy moments" over my traffic cop career, but if you do you will probably change your mind.

I am still totally mystified about what caused mine because it came totally out of the blue after many uneventful miles's on cruise control so I know it most definitely wasn't (anything approaching) excessive speed.

Maybe it was aliens

 

[Dustydog]

If a driver is driving too fast for the prevailing road conditions, they are driving too fast.

The only time a correctly loaded loaded outfit can go unstable is if the driver has lost proper control.

That’s a sweeping statement. How about the bow wave effect from a large coach, the mega car transporters.air disturbance . Coming out of a cutting onto an open embankment and hit by a cross wind ? And numerous other examples of outside influences over which you have no control?

 

[Gafferbill]

......post 42​

The answer to life behind the wheel...everything in the universe of caravan stability and all that is enlightenment..🤭

 

[otherclive]

If a driver is driving too fast for the prevailing road conditions, they are driving too fast.

If the road conditions are poor, drive slower!

If other drivers are driving poorly, slow down or give them space.

The only time a correctly loaded loaded outfit can go unstable is if the driver has lost proper control.

I can't conceive of how ATC system would be caused to engage by any other divers behaviour or actions, it is only triggered by the movements of the outfit it is fitted to

If a driver needs to make an emergency change of direction (Swerve) that wasn't anticipated the driver is not driving safely.

My brother in law was travelling at night in lane 1 of the M5. He was a careful caravanner and a steady driver. Given it was night he was driving at around 55mph. He was overtaken by a large van travelling at speed and although he moved leftwards and eased off the speed of the van was such that it invoked a snake and spun his outfit around but fortunately he recovered and set it in the required direction.

 

[Martin_E]

Unless the AWS tech has the Al-Ko test box and software (I only know of two mobile guys with it who I talk to) then the only tests I know of done on a service is the actuation when plugged in along with solid/flashing green light and that the adjustment is correct where the brake rod meets the ATC, too much slack the little rod can come out of the ATC unit and jam the brakes on