Caravan brakes/ motor mover

[Danddandy]

Before I unhitch I apply the caravan brakes. If I then push the caravan backwards the brake handle rises and the caravan moves a small amount then stops. My dealer tells me all is well with the brakes because it stops when you push it backwards. All good. But if I engage the motor mover, it won't move the caravan forwards but it will move the caravan backwards. . To my mind this is clearly wrong.
I do know what the problem is but surely the brakes should not allow a caravan to be moved backwards under the power of a motor mover.
Any comments from the experts before I pursue this further with my dealer?

 

[GUMPY]

It all sounds like normal caravan brake behaviour to me.
If you can push it back a bit with the brake on the MM will do the same.

 

[trevormonty]

Good practice to always chock wheels front and back before unhitching. There can be slight movement forward sometimes before the brakes engage, enough for hitch to hit bumper.

 

[Danddandy]

It all sounds like normal caravan brake behaviour to me.
If you can push it back a bit with the brake on the MM will do the same.

Yes, but I can move the caravan backwards as much as I want. . If the van was on a slope facing upwards it would run backwards if the mover was not engaged. . It's difficult to explain to service staff at a dealer . . My next step is to talk to the manufacturer as I can't get past dealer service department reception to talk to technical staff. .

 

[JLPlumb]

Its as it should be.

 

[GUMPY]

Yes, but I can move the caravan backwards as much as I want. . If the van was on a slope facing upwards it would run backwards if the mover was not engaged. . It's difficult to explain to service staff at a dealer . . My next step is to talk to the manufacturer as I can't get past dealer service department reception to talk to technical staff. .

Have I got this right with the hand brake lever in the up position the van could run away backwards?
I don't suppose your tow hitch is pushed back as if you were pushing the van back with a car?

 

[Hutch]

I had the same on a new, 2010 coachman, 6 months old, motor moved the van onto my driveway, applied the brake, disengaged the motor mover and the van rolled into the garage cracking the rear panel. Insurance assessor told me he had several vans do that, and the brakes were wrongly adjusted. Dealer replaced back panel and sorted out the brakes.

 

[Dustydog]

Perhaps this video will give a better understanding of the Al-ko auto reverse and over run braking system.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7Ql70Z-mdY

 

[Gafferbill]

.....if the handbrake is fully applied then the OP's caravan should not be able to move backwards more than 0.5 meters and often less.
This small movement backwards is caused by the way the brake shoes contact the brake drum due to the automatic reversing mechanism.
This small movement backwards is normal.

Brakes that allow the caravan to move backwards beyond this small amount are not working properly and present a serious and dangerous situation.
The OP needs to contact who ever last serviced the brakes and outline the problem and if necessary make an official complaint to get the problem rectified.
For safety reasons the brakes need to be sorted.

 

[Buckman]

Even on a car if applying the cable handbrake, there will still be some movement. with a car if you have the handbrake fully on, you will still probably be able to move the car.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Even on a car if applying the cable handbrake, there will still be some movement. with a car if you have the handbrake fully on, you will still probably be able to move the car.

That would be an MOT fail.

 

[Beardy]

Yes, but I can move the caravan backwards as much as I want. . If the van was on a slope facing upwards it would run backwards if the mover was not engaged. . It's difficult to explain to service staff at a dealer . . My next step is to talk to the manufacturer as I can't get past dealer service department reception to talk to technical staff. .

Can you push the caravan backwards with the handbrake on? Initially you said that it stops after a short distance (completely normal) but then you said that it would move backwards with the motormover and the handbrake on. My motormover is supposedly capable of moving 1500kg up a 1 in 4 slope, it wouldn't surprise me if it is capable of overcoming a drum brake, the only question is why yours will overcome it in one direction but not the other.

 

[Danddandy]

Can you push the caravan backwards with the handbrake on? Initially you said that it stops after a short distance (completely normal) but then you said that it would move backwards with the motormover and the handbrake on. My motormover is supposedly capable of moving 1500kg up a 1 in 4 slope, it wouldn't surprise me if it is capable of overcoming a drum brake, the only question is why yours will overcome it in one direction but not the other.

It's just my opinion but a motor mover should not be able to overpower the caravan brakes. In the past I have tried to use the mover after I had forgotten to release the caravan brake and it wouldn't move. Perhaps anyone brave enough to abuse their caravan brakes and mover could leave the brakes on and see if the caravan will move with the mover. This is why I started this topic. . My dealer service reception staff say the brakes are fine. I say they aren't.

 

[Danddandy]

Even on a car if applying the cable handbrake, there will still be some movement. with a car if you have the handbrake fully on, you will still probably be able to move the car.

Yes. . Maybe, but only with engine power.

 

[Dustydog]

Even on a car if applying the cable handbrake, there will still be some movement. with a car if you have the handbrake fully on, you will still probably be able to move the car.

When I did my driving test in 1970 if you moved a fraction back on the hill start test you failed!
Even the old cars then had a handbrake that properly adjusted would not allow a smidge back.

 

[Buckman]

Yes. . Maybe, but only with engine power.

Of course, how else would you be able to move a car with the handbrake on?

 

[Banus]

Good practice to always chock wheels front and back before unhitching. There can be slight movement forward sometimes before the brakes engage, enough for hitch to hit bumper.

Good post / tip. I apply the hand brake before unhitching but notice that on unhitching the van creeps forward and gets dangerously close to nudging / making contact with my rear bumper so now I put a cloth over the hitch on case it makes contact. However, chocking the van's wheel is a great idea and will prevent a potentially expensive repair bill to my XC60s rear valance.

 

[Hutch]

The hitch, itself can creep forward when you unhitch, if you have reversed back, applied the handbrake on the van, and have not gone forward with the car to allow the hitch to get into it's "Neutral,/ relaxed" position. Before unhitching.

 

[Banus]

The hitch, itself can creep forward when you unhitch, if you have reversed back, applied the handbrake on the van, and have not gone forward with the car to allow the hitch to get into it's "Neutral,/ relaxed" position. Before unhitching.

Have I got this right? So pulling forward a little after reversing will prevent the hitch from creeping forward after unhitching?

 

[otherclive]

Have I got this right? So pulling forward a little after reversing will prevent the hitch from creeping forward after unhitching?

Yes.

 

[borderbilly]

Have I got this right? So pulling forward a little after reversing will prevent the hitch from creeping forward after unhitching?

Correct, pull forward to open the bellow up , a few inches.

 

[davyayr]

Before I unhitch I apply the caravan brakes. If I then push the caravan backwards the brake handle rises and the caravan moves a small amount then stops. My dealer tells me all is well with the brakes because it stops when you push it backwards. All good. But if I engage the motor mover, it won't move the caravan forwards but it will move the caravan backwards. . To my mind this is clearly wrong.
I do know what the problem is but surely the brakes should not allow a caravan to be moved backwards under the power of a motor mover.
Any comments from the experts before I pursue this further with my dealer?

If I reverse onto a pitch, or my driveway for storage, I always go back further than needed, and then forward again a couple of feet. When reversing, the brakes disengage. In modern caravans, they are only meant to work going forward otherwise you wouldn't be able to reverse. older caravans, without automatic brakes required you to block the hitch from compressing. They, in effect, worked both forwards and in reverse.
I suspect that the caravan moving a small backwards amount is the brake shoes dragging, but not the brakes actually engaging. They cant until moved forward to reset them. Reversing with the vehicle disengages the brakes.
A motor mover will easily push a caravan back with what is in effect, dragging non applied brakes.
Trying to move it forward on a mover with the handbrake on, will engage or reset the brakes almost immediately.
You can then use the mover to fine tune your pitch position. The mover won't disconnect the brakes. Its the backwards movement of the hitch that does that only.
Anyone that has manually adjust old drum brakes in cars will understand. You always just wanted a slight scuffing noise to be heard.
Sometimes you will hear a slight scuffing sound from the caravan brakes in reverse, although difficult over mover noise.
Unless you move a small distance forward after a reverse, your brakes are in effect, not actually working as they should.
Try reversing with the car. Put the caravan handbrake on and try reversing again. not too hard.
Now release the handbrake and drive forward a couple of feet. Apply the caravan brake and try to move forward.
A LOT harder as the brakes have properly engaged.
Nearly forgot. Applying the caravan handbrake with out moving forward first to reset brakes will damage the handbrake operation in time.

 

[Beachball]

if you are not happy with the brakes why don"t you ask for a second opinion?

 

[Danddandy]

if you are not happy with the brakes why don"t you ask for a second opinion?

I am asking forum members for their opinion.


The issue is now resolved. The incorrect aframe cover had been fitted. The slot for the handbrake is not long enough therfore (with the brakes applied) when pushing the caravan backwards or using the mover the handbrake lever raises and then contacts the aframe stopping further movement. So the brakes are partially applied.
As a quick fix, I extended the length of the slot in the cover. . The brake handle is now able to move higher meaning the brakes are fully on.

A new aframe cover with an extended slot is on its way to my dealer.

Thanks forum members for all your comments. I appreciate your feedback.

 

[otherclive]

I am asking forum members for their opinion.


The issue is now resolved. The incorrect aframe cover had been fitted. The slot for the handbrake is not long enough therfore (with the brakes applied) when pushing the caravan backwards or using the mover the handbrake lever raises and then contacts the aframe stopping further movement. So the brakes are partially applied.
As a quick fix, I extended the length of the slot in the cover. . The brake handle is now able to move higher meaning the brakes are fully on.

A new aframe cover with an extended slot is on its way to my dealer.

Thanks forum members for all your comments. I appreciate your feedback.

Glad you have resolved the problem. Must admit having the incorrect A frame cover is a first for me. Is it a new caravan or pre owned. Just wonder how it got there.