I know that people tend to complain loudly about a poor product and fail to praise a good one but it seems to me there have been a lot of posts recently about the build quality of new caravans. Everything from doors falling off to cracked shower trays and lots in between. Has build quality deteriated as demand has grown or are people just more willing to complain? Maybe the industry needs to have a rethink on quality control or before they know it they will go the same way the motor industry went, to german models!
Caravan Quality
- Thread starter Chrisbee
- Start date
Mel
Moderator
Until we put our 12 month old Swift in for it's first service I had nothing but praise. "Not a single fault how wonderful". Then first service discovers 40% damp under the side window. On a 12 month old van! OK it is all covered by warranty but the point is it shouldn't be there. Don't know the general picture but I am inclined to agree about lack of build quality.
mel
mel
Hello Chrisbee and Mel,
It is well known fact that most people do not write letters of praise, but are ready to make fuss when something goes wrong. It's human nature. It takes a certain level of annoyance to cause someone to write a letter of complaint, so generally there is a lot of truth about the annoyance factor, even if it may only be what others may consider to be trivial. It amazes me that so many themes recur so frequently.
I am not sure that the frequency of faults has necessarily increased, but it has become easier to make others aware of such problems so it might give the impression of increased faults.
I am only guessing, but I actually believe it is more likely one in twenty (or 5%) or more caravans that do generate customer dissatisfaction of some sort. But even if its only one in a thousand caravans that causes complaint, to a quality focused business that is far too many. The key is to use the faults as opportunities for improvement. Research the fault find the cause and put measures in place to prevent it from happening again. What a wealth of customer feedback they must have by now!
But the industry simply has not learned the lessons. Caravans have been manufactured using the piece work for more than 50 years, a tradition which does not encourage proper quality procedures to be followed. Incomplete caravans are often manufactures and stock piled either for finishing later by the assembly crews, or shipped to the dealers for finishing. Parts are robbed from stock vans to complete others so the actual progress of some caravans is unknown.
They have been using the same basic materials for 30 years. Yet they still don't know how to manufacture a reliable water tight joint in the outer shell.
They consistently design products that prove unreliable (taps that wont seal, door catches that don't lock, security locks that can be broken or cracked in seconds) yet there area may domestic and commercial proven designs they could use. Plastic water hoses that taint the water, yet plastics have been used in domestic and commercial mains and hot water applications for 20 years or more.
Caravans have competitively few technically advanced sub-assemblies (e.g. Heaters, fridges, power supplies light sockets, switches etc) and cars have thousands, yet look at the reliability records of cars compared to caravans.
A significant part of the problem lies in the customers confidence of the supplying dealer to be able to rectify faults effectively. There are too many stories of woe when it comes to repairs. This can be due to poor initial design, or the variable skill base of caravan repair workshops.
But if the manufacturers were really to get their acts together, and produce products right first time, it would save them
It is well known fact that most people do not write letters of praise, but are ready to make fuss when something goes wrong. It's human nature. It takes a certain level of annoyance to cause someone to write a letter of complaint, so generally there is a lot of truth about the annoyance factor, even if it may only be what others may consider to be trivial. It amazes me that so many themes recur so frequently.
I am not sure that the frequency of faults has necessarily increased, but it has become easier to make others aware of such problems so it might give the impression of increased faults.
I am only guessing, but I actually believe it is more likely one in twenty (or 5%) or more caravans that do generate customer dissatisfaction of some sort. But even if its only one in a thousand caravans that causes complaint, to a quality focused business that is far too many. The key is to use the faults as opportunities for improvement. Research the fault find the cause and put measures in place to prevent it from happening again. What a wealth of customer feedback they must have by now!
But the industry simply has not learned the lessons. Caravans have been manufactured using the piece work for more than 50 years, a tradition which does not encourage proper quality procedures to be followed. Incomplete caravans are often manufactures and stock piled either for finishing later by the assembly crews, or shipped to the dealers for finishing. Parts are robbed from stock vans to complete others so the actual progress of some caravans is unknown.
They have been using the same basic materials for 30 years. Yet they still don't know how to manufacture a reliable water tight joint in the outer shell.
They consistently design products that prove unreliable (taps that wont seal, door catches that don't lock, security locks that can be broken or cracked in seconds) yet there area may domestic and commercial proven designs they could use. Plastic water hoses that taint the water, yet plastics have been used in domestic and commercial mains and hot water applications for 20 years or more.
Caravans have competitively few technically advanced sub-assemblies (e.g. Heaters, fridges, power supplies light sockets, switches etc) and cars have thousands, yet look at the reliability records of cars compared to caravans.
A significant part of the problem lies in the customers confidence of the supplying dealer to be able to rectify faults effectively. There are too many stories of woe when it comes to repairs. This can be due to poor initial design, or the variable skill base of caravan repair workshops.
But if the manufacturers were really to get their acts together, and produce products right first time, it would save them
There is no excuse for poor quality and I will not defend it.
Swift are committed to improving the quality of our vans. There are quality issues for all sorts of reasons but we are not complacent.
Indeed it is one of the reasons why we monitor 5 public forums to ensure we are getting all the feedback we can on our products. Our key objective is to provide products to a high standard.
Where our product does fail we then aim to resolve things as quickly as possible working with you and the dealer.
Regards
Kath
Swift are committed to improving the quality of our vans. There are quality issues for all sorts of reasons but we are not complacent.
Indeed it is one of the reasons why we monitor 5 public forums to ensure we are getting all the feedback we can on our products. Our key objective is to provide products to a high standard.
Where our product does fail we then aim to resolve things as quickly as possible working with you and the dealer.
Regards
Kath
We recently built some houses and some of them were sold to a speculator who them sold them on. We then got called as there was a drainage problem caused by a contractor who had taken a short cut that I was un-aware of.
We fixed the problem, even if there was a sales of goods act to hide behind I could not have handed the problem back to the seller as that is not good business practice in my book.
It seems very good of Swift to monitor web sites for problems, but if they and other manufacturers want to gain the trust of customers and improve build quality stop hiding behind the sale of goods act completely. Just kick the SOG act in to touch and hold your hands up to problems and be fully repsonsible for sorting them out even if remedial action is carries out by the dealer.
If a new caravan is a manufacturing mess up and stopping owners from using the van, give them a new one or loan them one.
Talking to the buyer directly will give Swift and other manufacturers far more useful feedback than feedback relayed via a dealer.
We fixed the problem, even if there was a sales of goods act to hide behind I could not have handed the problem back to the seller as that is not good business practice in my book.
It seems very good of Swift to monitor web sites for problems, but if they and other manufacturers want to gain the trust of customers and improve build quality stop hiding behind the sale of goods act completely. Just kick the SOG act in to touch and hold your hands up to problems and be fully repsonsible for sorting them out even if remedial action is carries out by the dealer.
If a new caravan is a manufacturing mess up and stopping owners from using the van, give them a new one or loan them one.
Talking to the buyer directly will give Swift and other manufacturers far more useful feedback than feedback relayed via a dealer.
While there is no excuse for bad quality I think it is probably because it is only faults that are highlighted and not the good points.
The brands mentioned and others sell in high volumes and thus you will get a few pups.I drive a Mondeo TDCi and there are problems with injectors,mass wheels etc but it is also a hell of a good car with or without caravan.
The brands mentioned and others sell in high volumes and thus you will get a few pups.I drive a Mondeo TDCi and there are problems with injectors,mass wheels etc but it is also a hell of a good car with or without caravan.
Although, understandably, tend to look at a modern caravan as a complete package there are, in fact, three quite separate entities which combine to make the whole.
First, we have the chassis and running gear (usually Alko these days), then the internal appliances from Thetford, Dometic, Truma, et al., a finally, the caravan shell itself.
The first two groups are manufactured using very high-tech methods in a computer controlled environment. Quality control is high, reliability is generally excellent and problems tend to be few.
It's a very different matter with the van itself. Make no mistake, it's rather like putting those sophisticated appliances and installing them in a garden shed.
In fact, the average B&Q garden shed is considerably better protected against rot and decay than the average caravan. I know of no manufacturer who uses treated timber in any part of their caravans - not even the German ones.
That's a disgrace, but it's what you get - 20mm untreated softwood framing, protected only by mastic seals that flex and crack (and which may well have been indifferently applied in the first place)
So, they leak, and they rot. They've been doing it since caravans first became popular, until the advent of bonded construction in the very early 80's repairs could be effected without too much difficulty - a structure comprising separate wall board, internal frame, and exterior aluminium skin could at least be taken to bits and reassembled.
Not so with 'bonded' - that alu/polystyrene/vinyl board sandwich was hailed as a major breakthrough when it first appeared. In reality it has been a disaster for consumers. When (and it is 'when, not 'if') the water gets in repairs become very difficult indeed due to the composite nature of the materials.
So you would assume that manufacturers would have taken Herculean steps to stop the water getting inside in the first place, wouldn't you? Well, they didn't, they don't, and given the imminent demise of caravanning due to external factors, they most certainly won't.
They long ago realised that if they presented the complete caravan in an attractive way, consumers would be too busy 'Oooing' and Ahhhing' over the latest gimmicks and gadgets to notice that the caravan they were viewing was still built in the same old substandard way - and, give the manufacturers their due, they knew their market and were quite correct in their belief that they could get away with selling vans that were destined to leak as surely as the sun is going to rise in the morning. That shiny new van might look like it's rolled off a precision robotic production line like a car - but, in reality, it's crudely made by an industry that sees no real need to mend its ways.
There is absolutely no need for those aluminium seals these days! - radiused acrylic capping, Sikaflxed in-situ and the use of properly installed Seitz windows would have eliminated about 95% of the problems - but the customers kept buying rubbish, and who can really blame the manufacturers for continuing to supply it?
Now it all far too late - I doubt if there is a single manufacturer who believes that their will be a caravan industry in 10 years time - so they certainly aren't going to start investing in new technology now. The name of the game is now 'Grab as much profit as possible before the spring dries up' - and that means make 'em cheaper and sell 'em for more.
Oh, they'll pay lip service to 'quality' - but they've been doing that for the last 30 years. These leopards are too old to start changing their spots now
First, we have the chassis and running gear (usually Alko these days), then the internal appliances from Thetford, Dometic, Truma, et al., a finally, the caravan shell itself.
The first two groups are manufactured using very high-tech methods in a computer controlled environment. Quality control is high, reliability is generally excellent and problems tend to be few.
It's a very different matter with the van itself. Make no mistake, it's rather like putting those sophisticated appliances and installing them in a garden shed.
In fact, the average B&Q garden shed is considerably better protected against rot and decay than the average caravan. I know of no manufacturer who uses treated timber in any part of their caravans - not even the German ones.
That's a disgrace, but it's what you get - 20mm untreated softwood framing, protected only by mastic seals that flex and crack (and which may well have been indifferently applied in the first place)
So, they leak, and they rot. They've been doing it since caravans first became popular, until the advent of bonded construction in the very early 80's repairs could be effected without too much difficulty - a structure comprising separate wall board, internal frame, and exterior aluminium skin could at least be taken to bits and reassembled.
Not so with 'bonded' - that alu/polystyrene/vinyl board sandwich was hailed as a major breakthrough when it first appeared. In reality it has been a disaster for consumers. When (and it is 'when, not 'if') the water gets in repairs become very difficult indeed due to the composite nature of the materials.
So you would assume that manufacturers would have taken Herculean steps to stop the water getting inside in the first place, wouldn't you? Well, they didn't, they don't, and given the imminent demise of caravanning due to external factors, they most certainly won't.
They long ago realised that if they presented the complete caravan in an attractive way, consumers would be too busy 'Oooing' and Ahhhing' over the latest gimmicks and gadgets to notice that the caravan they were viewing was still built in the same old substandard way - and, give the manufacturers their due, they knew their market and were quite correct in their belief that they could get away with selling vans that were destined to leak as surely as the sun is going to rise in the morning. That shiny new van might look like it's rolled off a precision robotic production line like a car - but, in reality, it's crudely made by an industry that sees no real need to mend its ways.
There is absolutely no need for those aluminium seals these days! - radiused acrylic capping, Sikaflxed in-situ and the use of properly installed Seitz windows would have eliminated about 95% of the problems - but the customers kept buying rubbish, and who can really blame the manufacturers for continuing to supply it?
Now it all far too late - I doubt if there is a single manufacturer who believes that their will be a caravan industry in 10 years time - so they certainly aren't going to start investing in new technology now. The name of the game is now 'Grab as much profit as possible before the spring dries up' - and that means make 'em cheaper and sell 'em for more.
Oh, they'll pay lip service to 'quality' - but they've been doing that for the last 30 years. These leopards are too old to start changing their spots now
Hello Kath and Swift Caravans,
It is refreshing to see that a major manufacturer is prepared to engage in public forums in the way you do. I do wish that others would follow suite.
It is also refreshing to see the way that you grab the opportunity to try and resolve individual difficulties when they are brought to the attention of the forum. I would like to think that this is the standard of response that all customer complaints receive even if they do not go public, but I think it is fairly clear from the content of the postings that customers all too often have been upset by your dealers, and in some cases Swifts initial response has been unhelpful. The forum seems to be a release vent for pent up frustrations. This is not the way it should be.
As you have been monitoring this forum, I am sure you will seen that I believe that there is a lot more that the caravan manufactures could do to improve product quality. I have been involved in quality improvements in a number of businesses, including some that supply caravan manufacturers, As part of that contact with the industry I have seen some production lines, materials and goods control and handling, final inspection & testing.
It therefore does not surprise me to read of they types of faults that customers have to endure.
I sincerely hope that you do make good on your statement that claims: 'Swift are committed to improving the quality of our vans'
Customers are your life blood, and companies that respect and court their customers with good products and service always have the the edge over less well prepared businesses.
It is refreshing to see that a major manufacturer is prepared to engage in public forums in the way you do. I do wish that others would follow suite.
It is also refreshing to see the way that you grab the opportunity to try and resolve individual difficulties when they are brought to the attention of the forum. I would like to think that this is the standard of response that all customer complaints receive even if they do not go public, but I think it is fairly clear from the content of the postings that customers all too often have been upset by your dealers, and in some cases Swifts initial response has been unhelpful. The forum seems to be a release vent for pent up frustrations. This is not the way it should be.
As you have been monitoring this forum, I am sure you will seen that I believe that there is a lot more that the caravan manufactures could do to improve product quality. I have been involved in quality improvements in a number of businesses, including some that supply caravan manufacturers, As part of that contact with the industry I have seen some production lines, materials and goods control and handling, final inspection & testing.
It therefore does not surprise me to read of they types of faults that customers have to endure.
I sincerely hope that you do make good on your statement that claims: 'Swift are committed to improving the quality of our vans'
Customers are your life blood, and companies that respect and court their customers with good products and service always have the the edge over less well prepared businesses.
John L
Thanks for your comments.
I can assure you all that monitoring the forums is not just to play lip service to our customers and do a PR job. Indeed it is not always comfortable sitting reading these posts.
We started monitoring the forums almost a year ago and it has had a major effect on the way we run our business.
Prior to this we used to keep the retail customers at arms length and we now try to get more involved and closer with our customers. That is not always straight forward and it is a balance with our Customer Care team because it is right and appropriate that the dealers do sort out customer issues or the order of parts etc.
In terms of quality, I take quality issues that are raised here and through a variety of other mediums into the rest of the organisation in order to get them fixed. Even though we then fix things for the future it still results in our customers and us in customer service living with the history.
I know we are not perfect in any shape or form but we are honest and open and we are trying to improve all aspects of our business.
Customers contacting us direct would get the same service as we deliver to our forum users.
Incidentally, Swift is still run by the son of the original owner. We are here for the long term and committed to keep this company going for the unforseeable future as there is not a lot of British manufacturing left in this country.
I hope I havent said too much.
Regards
Kath
Thanks for your comments.
I can assure you all that monitoring the forums is not just to play lip service to our customers and do a PR job. Indeed it is not always comfortable sitting reading these posts.
We started monitoring the forums almost a year ago and it has had a major effect on the way we run our business.
Prior to this we used to keep the retail customers at arms length and we now try to get more involved and closer with our customers. That is not always straight forward and it is a balance with our Customer Care team because it is right and appropriate that the dealers do sort out customer issues or the order of parts etc.
In terms of quality, I take quality issues that are raised here and through a variety of other mediums into the rest of the organisation in order to get them fixed. Even though we then fix things for the future it still results in our customers and us in customer service living with the history.
I know we are not perfect in any shape or form but we are honest and open and we are trying to improve all aspects of our business.
Customers contacting us direct would get the same service as we deliver to our forum users.
Incidentally, Swift is still run by the son of the original owner. We are here for the long term and committed to keep this company going for the unforseeable future as there is not a lot of British manufacturing left in this country.
I hope I havent said too much.
Regards
Kath
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