caravan towcar awards result-not Skoda?!!

[CameronBurns]

i'm afraid that i have to say that i am disappointed with Skoda winning towcar of the year. we tow with a Citroen C5 estate 2.2 diesel (similar to the one tested in the same catagory as the Skoda) and the caravan club testers thought it was a great towcar, but put it down for 'lack of information in the owners handbook'.

let me explain: caravan testers were confused, saying that there was no advice on what setting to have the Hydractive suspension on when towing. the NORMAL setting is the answer. when a weight is loaded in the C5 it returns to a level point. so, once hitched up, basically the suspension sets itself up to cope with the weight.

may i now move onto the party piece. on C5 estates there is a little button in the boot which raises and lowers the rear end of the car. this is to make boot loading easier. but it also makes hitching up effortless. all we do is position the caravan coupling head over the towball (via the motormover) and raise the rear suspension until it hitches up; no messing about with the jockey wheel. also, this facility can only be used when the engine is off, so no noise when hitching up on those early morning trips.

it isn't just the suspension. the 2.2 ltr diesel engine is great for towing- it just keeps on going! it is also very economical. we get around 45-50 mpg solo at 50mph! and around 30-35 mpg at 50mph towing. one more point: the Skoda was tested in dry conditions and the C5 in wet.

ok, maybe the skoda was cheaper to run. i just wanted to defend Citroen! ok, rant over!

 

[RogerL]

Who needs fancy dancing rear suspension?

Self-levelling suspension is very useful, but not unique to Citroen.

I test drove a Citroen once - you're only supposed to use the middle two suspension settings on the road but there's no interlock to prevent using ultra-low or ultra-high at speed, both a lethal combination.

So the Skoda is cheaper to run and much better built than any Citroen.

 

[CameronBurns]

'fancy dancing rear suspension' has been a life-saver in many ways, not just when caravanning. self-leveling suspension i not unique to citroen, but citroen have the rights and have sold them to Bentley and a few other manufacturers. the self-leveling fluid suspension was first introduced, by citroen on the Traction Avant in the late 1940's to the rear wheels, and was available to all four wheels on the legendary DS19 in 1957. it has sunce featured on all upper range citroen's scince. until the late 1990's when it was changed to run on electronic motors. the Xantia Octivia was the world's first and only car that leveled out in corners, thanks to the system. it was in the 1970's that citroen let Bentley use the suspension system. similar systems have been made bt Landrover and Porche, but do not deliver a comfortable ride like citroen.

i disagree with the build quality. we are on our 4th citroen in 15 years and it is fine. we once tested a Skoda when we had an Audi which had broken down, and the skoda was, well.. boring. the skoda is cheaper to tax and insure but it isn't better on fuel economy. forget what the brochures say, we have a citroen and the figures are there. you are right about the suspension not locking. all our old citroens BX, Xantia etc.. had levers which did lock, and on the C5 it has three buttons. but they are out of the way and in three years of ownership, has never gone onto another setting whilst driving.

the skoda we had for a few days was dull, average and had no features that set it apart. no Skoda has ever been as good-looking, quirky, as good value and as practical as a Citroen.

 

[bigbilly]

I owned a Citroen C5 Exclusive (?) Estate 2.2 for 4 years from new and found it an excellent tow car especially the adjustable rear suspension.

My personal experience was that it was very expensive to run albeit I was lucky that it was a company supplied car. I never ever got as many as 40 miles per gallon solo and also went through 3 sets of tyres. I also found servicing and repairs expensive and the company eventually got rid of it after 85,000 miles when to change an emission filter was going to cost

 

[CameronBurns]

sorry to hear about that. was yours a pre 53 reg plate as these were the first C5's and were prone to problems. 04 reg plate onwards are fine. what impressed me about the new C5 was everything that was slightly wrong has been sorted out. also there is an estate version with a full glass roof. we had to get the tyres changed, as when we bought it the tyres were cheap ones, and they seemed to cause snaking with the caravan in the back because the tyre walls flexed. we got some Pirelli's and the problem is fixed.

 

[Iain]

What's wrong with Skoda's???

I'm over the moon with mine!

 

[DJGB]

Worst experience I had towing was when I used my parents Citroen Xantia Estate to tow my Elddis Whirlwind EX2000. Neally lost the outfit it was so unstable, it was no better with my parents caravan - it was soon changed for a SSangyong Musso. The Citroen may have fancy suspension - when it worked (even the main dealer could not put it right)- but I think I would ever trust a Citroen again to tow my caravan.

Now I have a Skoda Octavia Scout - one of the best tow cars I have ever had. It's not a suprise the Scout won it's class last year, and the Suberb won this year. What will the Suberb 2.0 TDi 170 4x4 be like when it comes out later in the year?

 

[Garfield]

I have just read the towcar awards and when you own one of the car's the Judges talk about (ford S-max) you realise what complete Cr*p they come out with at times, last year the judge compared the S-max to "other small MPV's like Vauxhalls Meriva". The S-max, a seven seater based on the Mondeo platform weighing in at around 1750kg compared to the Meriva, a 4 1/2 seater based on a Corsa???. This year the judge wittered on about the S-max handbrake which myself and my wife use with absolute ease and holds the outfit on any hill we have needed it on without more than fingertip pressure, so the lever is transverse rather than the usual alignment, I guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks, maybe it's the arthritis in the judges wrist and elbow?.

 

[CameronBurns]

that's what annoyed me about the C5. the handbook clearly states what each suspension setting is for, so if they had read it properly, they would realise their mistake.

 

[Zafiral]

Perhaps the fact that Skoda supplied about half the cars in the suplement means that they show they are taking towing seriously. The suplement would have been very thin if there was no Skodas in it.

How could the Volvo come 2nd in the expensive class with a nose weight of only 60 kg. By the CC's own guidelines of 7%, that is a max tow weight of only 850kg!!! While I agree that some of the CC's guidelines need updating with regards to current cars' abilities and the government's wishes to downsize our cars, they should at least be singing from the same hymn sheet.

 

[Chrisbee]

I'm confused. I have a c5 estate but the only suspension settings are normal or "sport". The sport setting stiffens the suspension, I don't see why that should be a safety issue. There are different height settings but these default to normal ride height depending on speed. It is not possible to drive in the highest position above 6kph or the next highest or lowest positions above 24kph. They are really usefull on rutted site roads as they obviously increase the ground clearance.

 

[RogerL]

It's good that Citroen are catching up on safety - the Xsara estate I test drove had 4 height positions, all of which could be used on the move, but the highest and lowest were positively dangerous at speed.

 

[CameronBurns]

Citroen are good with safety. Did you know the DS19 was the worlds first production car to come with disc brakes as standard as opposed to drum brakes?

i think the towcar of the year needs a brush up. all the cars are tested in different conditions (wet, dry, very wet, damp) so how can the judge hillstarts and things like that. the winning Skoda was tested in dry condtions, so that is a bit unfair as it might be rubbish at towing in the wet, we don't know.

also, they tell you the MPG solo, but don't bother telling you what it is when you are towing. to some people the MPG is the deciding factor on buying a car.

 

[RogerL]

You're right George, the DS was an excellent car way ahead of it's time - that was a long time ago though.

 

[CameronBurns]

i know :-( there were plans to bring it back, but those plans were scrapped and Citroen made the C6 instead.

 

[KeithJ]

I was surprised that the Skoda Superb won Towcar of the Year too - not because Skodas are not good cars, but because in spite of its size and a price tag of

 

[seth1]

i think given the choose,i,d go for the c5 everytime,before the present car we ran citroens,and they were bombproof,the 1.9diesel when first released was without doubt the best diesel about.the 2.2 hdi carrys the theme on and only with the 2.0 170 tdi have vw got anywere near it with the fitment of commonrail as opposed to PD .In citroens defence regarding PM filter when changed when should be(70,000)its not that expensive,fathers just had his done ,under

 

[scottironsbtinternet.com]

Just a side issue.My wife and I were in Prague for the weekend the other week and were picked up from the airport by a limo.The limo was a new Skoda Superb..all i can say is yes the car was superb..I am 6 2" and I have never had so much leg room (back seat) the ride was perfect..seats were also very very good..it was a truly wounderful car ..ok I was only in it for 40 mins and was a passanger but I must say I would buy one.

 

[mauron]

Call me a sceptic but aren't these "car of the yrar awards" based on a "whose turn is it next to win format", anyway?

 

[ProfJohnL]

I was surprised that the Skoda Superb won Towcar of the Year too - not because Skodas are not good cars, but because in spite of its size and a price tag of

 

[otherclive]

The ability to raise ride height on my Citroen was very useful when traversing a flooded section of road, albeit the speed had to be kept down.

 

[Chris_374224489]

I find the "towcar of the year" pretty useless because it considers the most important thing to be the cost of the car. This means that in any one group there can be a very wide range of caravans towed. Personally I would like to know what all the cars in each group are like towing the same caravan - that might well make for very different reading!

The results as published in the caravan club mazazine don't highlight the different caravan weights at all which makes them very misleading.

I would like to see the results based on the caravan towed & not the car price but that is too much to hope for.

Chris

 

[KeithJ]

Chris

You said:

"The results as published in the caravan club mazazine don't highlight the different caravan weights at all which makes them very misleading."

The table in the Caravan Club supplement (page 6)does show the caravan weights and car weights - the former being 85% of the latter. As I understand it they ballast the vans to the 85% figure.

This is why I queried their choice of Towcar of the Year when, by their own figures, it only tows 1267kg.

For such a large car I am surprised that the Skoda Superb 2.0 TDI only weighs in 1490kg (CC figure). I notice that the new Fiesta nearly weighs this much (Ford website figure)!

Of course, if the car weight figure was understated, this could result in it being it matched to a lighter van. Could this result in an unfair advantage??

 

[KeithJ]

oops, sorry - please ignore my comment about the Ford Fiesta - I was quoting the Gross Vehicle Mass, ie. when fully loaded. It shows how figures can be confusing!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Keith,

You make a valid point about the under quoting of kerb weights. Given the way the CC apparently conduct the tests, it could give an advantage.

But it is also a disadvantage, because if the buying public stick the CC advice of only 85% then a reduced Kerb weight restricts the range of caravans the buyer might consider.

This method of assessing the maximum weight of caravans for any given car has also causes some caravan manufacturers to plate their caravans at a lower MTPLM, so they are more attractive to buyers with smaller cars.

Some manufactures allow the caravan to replated with a higher MTPLM with no mechanical changes.

I always ask why 85% and not some other arbitrary figure? Why not 90 or 100%, or even take what the car manufactures tell us, after all the manufactures have actually evidence based test results, what do the CC have?