Hi there. We have had a carbon monoxide leak in our new Buchaneer caravan whilst on holiday last February and we wanted to hear from anyone else who has expereinced a CO leak - especially in a new caravan. Our leak was caused by a Truma fire (the one that can run on electric or LPG). We would love to know if anyone else out there has experienced such a leak and if so, what did the manufacturer say. We hope we are not the first ones to have had this terrifying experience. Kind regards Greenwindows
Carbon Monoxide Leak in new caravan
- Thread starter Greenwindows
- Start date
Do you know what the cause is,They are a room sealed appliance so are normally very safe.How did you know it was faulty,was thinking of getting a CO detector for ours just in case anything went wrong.
in the 17yrs i have been working on and servicing caravans i have never come across one single case of carbon monoxide.
im very suprised to hear a truma fire would have caused this because they are a room sealed fire. this means all the exhaust fumes are vented direct to the outside. the only time these types of fires can create any smell or fumes is if the silicone seal to the flue has not seated or sealed correctly. normally this would happen during the pdi procedure by leaving the fire on for the length of the pdi and "melting" the seal into position, this will also burn off any preserving oils left on the fire after production. these fumes may set off a carbon monoxide detector, especially if they are the cheap kinds.
im very suprised to hear a truma fire would have caused this because they are a room sealed fire. this means all the exhaust fumes are vented direct to the outside. the only time these types of fires can create any smell or fumes is if the silicone seal to the flue has not seated or sealed correctly. normally this would happen during the pdi procedure by leaving the fire on for the length of the pdi and "melting" the seal into position, this will also burn off any preserving oils left on the fire after production. these fumes may set off a carbon monoxide detector, especially if they are the cheap kinds.
Greenwindows,
As it was a new caravan I assume you returned it to the dealer for checking, and repair. What were their findings?
Carbon monoxide is formed when combustion is incomplete so this suggests a major fault with your heater, plus of course a leak in the seals to allow it to enter the van. Did you suffer any of the normal symptons of CO poisoning such as headaches, nausea etc, or was this a case where a detector indicated a leak? If so, assume you have checked the detector, as many of the budget models can give false readings.
As mentioned by others, CO poisoning is not a known problem with caravans so your case does cause concern, and I for one would appreciate knowing the outcome.
As it was a new caravan I assume you returned it to the dealer for checking, and repair. What were their findings?
Carbon monoxide is formed when combustion is incomplete so this suggests a major fault with your heater, plus of course a leak in the seals to allow it to enter the van. Did you suffer any of the normal symptons of CO poisoning such as headaches, nausea etc, or was this a case where a detector indicated a leak? If so, assume you have checked the detector, as many of the budget models can give false readings.
As mentioned by others, CO poisoning is not a known problem with caravans so your case does cause concern, and I for one would appreciate knowing the outcome.
Sorry to hear of your experience.
I thought the risk of lpg leaks was more to do with the risk of explosion. Carbon monoxide will poision you or kill you if the levels are high enough.
I thought if you were worried about an lpg leak, you had to install an lpg alarm rather than a carbon monoxide detector as I am under the impression a carbon monoxide detector won't pick up lpg leaks.
Lisa
I thought the risk of lpg leaks was more to do with the risk of explosion. Carbon monoxide will poision you or kill you if the levels are high enough.
I thought if you were worried about an lpg leak, you had to install an lpg alarm rather than a carbon monoxide detector as I am under the impression a carbon monoxide detector won't pick up lpg leaks.
Lisa
Hello Greenwindows,
Any suspicion of a collection of Carbon Monoxide inside a caravan must be treated seriously and investigated. As it is a new caravan, your supplier must be involved.
Having worked in the industry for many years but now retired, I know in some detail how the Truma product works and as a consequence I am sceptical that the heater is the sole cause of the problem you report.
In the first instance, what alerted to the possibility that you have had a build up of CO in the caravan? Has it been confirmed that CO was in fact present? And how do you know the Truma heater caused it?
As others have already said, the Truma heater is a 'room sealed' appliance, and the concept of this is to virtually eliminate any possibility of the flue gasses entering the living space of the caravan.
All correctly installed and operated LPG burning appliances will produce very small amounts of CO as part of their combustion process, but it represents a very small percentage of the actual combustion emissions. And in the case of the Truma this all takes place inside the heater, which is the room sealed element of the appliance.
Because of the last two paragraphs, it is difficult to imagine how a correctly installed, and operated heater could cause the symptoms you describe. It would require serious multiple failures of the appliance and its installation to cause excessive levels of CO to be discharged inside the caravan. The cooker has open flames, and is a far more likely source of CO inside the caravan.
It is also strange that the fixed ventilation in the caravan was insufficient to dilute any gasses and prevent them accumulating to detectable levels.
I am not disputing you have had some sort of indication, but was it CO, and was it the heater?
You do tell us it was a new caravan, and when the heater is new, there can still be some die-casting release oils on the heat exchanger. The instructions for the appliance tell you to run the heater on high for a length of time with all the windows and doors open to allow the any smell from the oils to ventilate. If you did not do this then perhaps this has been your problem. Having eliminated the oils, the heater should function normally.
Any suspicion of a collection of Carbon Monoxide inside a caravan must be treated seriously and investigated. As it is a new caravan, your supplier must be involved.
Having worked in the industry for many years but now retired, I know in some detail how the Truma product works and as a consequence I am sceptical that the heater is the sole cause of the problem you report.
In the first instance, what alerted to the possibility that you have had a build up of CO in the caravan? Has it been confirmed that CO was in fact present? And how do you know the Truma heater caused it?
As others have already said, the Truma heater is a 'room sealed' appliance, and the concept of this is to virtually eliminate any possibility of the flue gasses entering the living space of the caravan.
All correctly installed and operated LPG burning appliances will produce very small amounts of CO as part of their combustion process, but it represents a very small percentage of the actual combustion emissions. And in the case of the Truma this all takes place inside the heater, which is the room sealed element of the appliance.
Because of the last two paragraphs, it is difficult to imagine how a correctly installed, and operated heater could cause the symptoms you describe. It would require serious multiple failures of the appliance and its installation to cause excessive levels of CO to be discharged inside the caravan. The cooker has open flames, and is a far more likely source of CO inside the caravan.
It is also strange that the fixed ventilation in the caravan was insufficient to dilute any gasses and prevent them accumulating to detectable levels.
I am not disputing you have had some sort of indication, but was it CO, and was it the heater?
You do tell us it was a new caravan, and when the heater is new, there can still be some die-casting release oils on the heat exchanger. The instructions for the appliance tell you to run the heater on high for a length of time with all the windows and doors open to allow the any smell from the oils to ventilate. If you did not do this then perhaps this has been your problem. Having eliminated the oils, the heater should function normally.
I have an expensive carbon monoxide alarm in my house and this is triggered by my diesel vehicle running on the driveway.
It makes me wonder why it has taken them nearly a year to post on this and many other forums about this experience. As pointed out in another forum, how did they know it was carbon monoxide as this is a clear odourless gas.
It is clearly a worrying issue but as carbon monoxide is a heavy gas, generally it would seep out all the ventilation holes in the floor and would be unlikely to affect you unless you were sleeping on the floor.
It is clearly a worrying issue but as carbon monoxide is a heavy gas, generally it would seep out all the ventilation holes in the floor and would be unlikely to affect you unless you were sleeping on the floor.
To be fair, perhaps they had an alarm, and it was triggered - after all it's an upmarket caravan, and may well have been fitted with an alarm as 'standard' or it may have been added. On another forum there's a reply about how some caravans which had been water-damaged in the floods had damage to the seals in the fire unit. Perhaps this could be the genuine explanation?
I have seen this on another forum with same posting name,perhaps the mods should do a bit of checking,may well be genuine but no response to postings causes some concern
There are several replies from Greenwindows on another forum, coming up with some genuine answers it would seem. Perhaps 'benefit of the doubt' is in order here.
Parksy
Moderator
Which forum was the topic posted on Val?
With such an important safety issue it's better to be safe than sorry and it would be good for members to discover what made Greenwindows post that their fire is leaking CO2 into their caravan and what caused this to happen.
Parksy
Moderator
You can buy a 'gas detector' - which runs on the mains and is being sold by Lidl.
Gas Alarm
Detects methane, propane and butane gas. Loud 85dB alarm and red alert light. Conforms to EN 50194. Mains operated. Includes fixings and instruction manual. 3 year manufacturer's warranty. Price per item. 12.99*
Gas Alarm
Detects methane, propane and butane gas. Loud 85dB alarm and red alert light. Conforms to EN 50194. Mains operated. Includes fixings and instruction manual. 3 year manufacturer's warranty. Price per item. 12.99*
Parksy
Moderator
From what I gather from the post on UK campsites forum Greenwindows has a CO2 detector which indicates a leak and there is apparently a 'smell of LPG'
I gather that there is some dispute with the dealers or caravan manufacturer as to whether there is a CO2 leak.
Hmmm........
I gather that there is some dispute with the dealers or caravan manufacturer as to whether there is a CO2 leak.
Hmmm........
It has also been posted on Touring and Tenting again with no reply from poster.If Greenwindows has a dispute with dealer manufacturer,he could take it up with the Health and Safety Executive as a notifiable incident and see what they say about it.If they believe there is fault they can bring a prosecution.
Could I suggest a quiet word from the Mod ditect to 'Greenwindows' advising him that he/she has raised a lot of concern by his/her Post, and that it would be appreciated if he/she could either confirm, or not, whether there was indeed a problem with CO gas. If it is LPG, then that is a different matter entirely, although still a gas issue.
If there are legal implications then I can understand a less than full reply, but all I think we all wish to know is whether, or not CO is the issue.
If there are legal implications then I can understand a less than full reply, but all I think we all wish to know is whether, or not CO is the issue.
Parksy
Moderator
Hi everyone. Thank you very much for your kind replies to my message and I am very sorry I have not responded until now. As a newcomer to this message posting business I was not prepared for the overwhelming number of responses I have received. In order to make sure I reached as many experienced caravanners as possible I posted my message on 3 Forums only to be inundated by messages on one of the other forums and in my attempts to reply to as many as possible, I got completely bogged down.
Anyway, back to the subject. As you can see from my original message, we are still trying to resolve the issue with the relevant parties so can't say much more on that part of the question. However, as you will see form the other forum, we have had many responses about what causes CO leaks etc but that is not what we were looking for. We have spent almost a year finding out how it happened in our case by speaking to many organisations and professionals, so we now know how our CO leak came about. We just needed to know why it happened and that's why we were looking to see if anyone else had experienced a CO build up caused by a fault on the fire.
It seems many think CO leaks are simply a case of fuels not burning properly but this is not true. Their causes are extremely complicated. Many variables can contribute to a build up that are very hard to explain or re-create - but that doesn't mean it's not possible.
CO leaks in caravans CAN happen and DO happen, as with us and many cases across the world. Our main hope to come out of this was to hear from others in the same position but also to ensure that people realise the importance of having a working CO detector in the caravan. In fact, one of the leading experts on CO in the world always advises having two!
Just don't assume anything when it comes to your family's safety and make sure you are protected with an alarm and that's sure to keep you safe.
So sorry if I can't reply to all posts but feel free to add any information you feel will help others.
Thank you very much for taking the time to read this. At least it has created a debate about the subject and that has got to be a good thing!
Anyway, back to the subject. As you can see from my original message, we are still trying to resolve the issue with the relevant parties so can't say much more on that part of the question. However, as you will see form the other forum, we have had many responses about what causes CO leaks etc but that is not what we were looking for. We have spent almost a year finding out how it happened in our case by speaking to many organisations and professionals, so we now know how our CO leak came about. We just needed to know why it happened and that's why we were looking to see if anyone else had experienced a CO build up caused by a fault on the fire.
It seems many think CO leaks are simply a case of fuels not burning properly but this is not true. Their causes are extremely complicated. Many variables can contribute to a build up that are very hard to explain or re-create - but that doesn't mean it's not possible.
CO leaks in caravans CAN happen and DO happen, as with us and many cases across the world. Our main hope to come out of this was to hear from others in the same position but also to ensure that people realise the importance of having a working CO detector in the caravan. In fact, one of the leading experts on CO in the world always advises having two!
Just don't assume anything when it comes to your family's safety and make sure you are protected with an alarm and that's sure to keep you safe.
So sorry if I can't reply to all posts but feel free to add any information you feel will help others.
Thank you very much for taking the time to read this. At least it has created a debate about the subject and that has got to be a good thing!
Parksy
Moderator
I appreciate the reply from 'Greenwindows' although I must admit I do not think I am any the wiser.
I also feel his comment that incomplete combustion is not the only reason for the creation of CO, although technically correct seems spurious in connection with a caravan. Carbon monoxide is produced by the oxidation of a carbon compound and unless he has something unusual in his van, the only normal sources of carbon would be the burning of LPG in one of his appliances, or electrical burning. This may in turn through a fault cause burning of part of the casing, which may be carbon based and thus create the gas. However, in most cases CO will convert to CO2 in the presence of heat. It can also be reduced by the reduction of metal oxides with a carbon source, but again I am curious as to how such a reaction could occur in a caravan.
As I mentioned at the start of this Post, I am not really any the wiser as to the cause, or nature of the problem. If there are answers on other Forums I would be grateful for directions to them.
I also feel his comment that incomplete combustion is not the only reason for the creation of CO, although technically correct seems spurious in connection with a caravan. Carbon monoxide is produced by the oxidation of a carbon compound and unless he has something unusual in his van, the only normal sources of carbon would be the burning of LPG in one of his appliances, or electrical burning. This may in turn through a fault cause burning of part of the casing, which may be carbon based and thus create the gas. However, in most cases CO will convert to CO2 in the presence of heat. It can also be reduced by the reduction of metal oxides with a carbon source, but again I am curious as to how such a reaction could occur in a caravan.
As I mentioned at the start of this Post, I am not really any the wiser as to the cause, or nature of the problem. If there are answers on other Forums I would be grateful for directions to them.
I concur with Scotch lad,
All we have so far been told is the CO detector was indicating the presence of CO. We have no explanation of how it occurred, which would be far more helpful so that others can be made aware of any potential hazard - if it really exists.
Greenwindows, As it stands, you have cast a very very serious but unsubstantiated allegation about a Truma product. As the nature of your posting relates to safety, it will naturally cause other readers who have Truma products to begin to doubt the safety of their appliances.
If there is genuine factual evidence to support your claim, then you should be prepared to disclose it, so that everyone can take appropriate action to prevent the same circumstances from occurring.
It will also allow other like me to include the evidence in our experience and use it to avoid the threat in other new designs or repairs.
I reccomend that the moderators keep a close watch on this thread as
All we have so far been told is the CO detector was indicating the presence of CO. We have no explanation of how it occurred, which would be far more helpful so that others can be made aware of any potential hazard - if it really exists.
Greenwindows, As it stands, you have cast a very very serious but unsubstantiated allegation about a Truma product. As the nature of your posting relates to safety, it will naturally cause other readers who have Truma products to begin to doubt the safety of their appliances.
If there is genuine factual evidence to support your claim, then you should be prepared to disclose it, so that everyone can take appropriate action to prevent the same circumstances from occurring.
It will also allow other like me to include the evidence in our experience and use it to avoid the threat in other new designs or repairs.
I reccomend that the moderators keep a close watch on this thread as
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