Carrying Adult size bikes in / on a Caravan

[Darranna]

Hi all,

My wife and I recently purchased a New (to us) Caravan on the 26th August and we are struggling to work out how we transport our two eBikes either in or on the A frame. To give a little more detail, the van is a 2009 Swift Charisma 535. I can't carry the bikes on the car as my car is a coupe with a plastic boot and frameless windows. The bikes are circa 20kgs each (with the batteries) removed.

It would seem these types of bikes are still in their infancy in the U.K. But are widely used throughout mainland Europe.

How do you carry your bikes on or in the van?

 

[Craigyoung]

Hi,
we have recently purchased our van in may but we managed to to barter to get a bike rack fitted to the rear of the caravan , that is how we carry our big bikes on the back and then we put the kids bikes on the inside , could you not get a rack fitted to the back of the van or could you not possibly fit them on the inside of the van for travelling?

Craig .

 

[Darranna]

Hi Craig not to my knowledge. The rear of the van is a windowless flat panel but there would very little strength in that panel, although I'd be delighted to to be told otherwise as that would be an ideal solution (I'd add photos but don't seem to be able to).

I have noticed the newer Swift models have bike rack mounting rails as an option.

 

[Mike_S]

Hi Darranna

I think you have a bit of a problem here as electric bikes are usually much heavier than their non-electric counterparts.
I assume as your car is a coupe a roof rack would not be possible, also, just getting then onto to the rack might be a struggle, assuming your car roof could take the weight in the first place.
Carrying them on an A-frame carrier will certainly increase nose weight and may exceed the car (or the caravan's) limit.
Carrying them (suitably secured) inside the caravan will take up a large chunk of the caravan's user payload - often around 160Kg - and if the caravan has a motor mover fitted, there's another 30Kg used up. Then there's gas bottles, leisure battery, awning etc to consider, let alone clothes and your toothbrushes!
I think the solution is too carry them in the caravan and transfer other stuff into your car.

Mike

 

[Darranna]

Hi Mike,

Your right due to the design of the car I can't fit a roof fail system because it would be to short and the windows are frameless.

I agree that carrying them inside may be our only option but I'm likely to end up damaging the interior of the van. So my preferred option is to have them outside. It's bizarre this issue hasn't been worked out yet, as I mentioned in my previous post bikes on vans in mainland Europe is common place. Having just returned from a few days (without the van) on the Rhine in Germany they were everywhere.

 

[Lappy]

The reason you see more bikes on the A-frame whilst abroad, is because European vans generally have a longer A-frame and therefore the bikes can be transported here. I put my wife's electric bike and my mountain bike on our A-frame, but our van is an Adria and my tug is a Shogun.
Regards

 

[Craigyoung]

Hi darren .
yes we were lucky , ours is the Swift , which had the brackets on the back ready for the rack to be attached , why not just take normal bikes and pedal !!
we've just come back from Holland with our bikes it was great for cycling ! Why not make some enquiries to see if one could be fitted to the back of the rear of your van ? Ours also has a window in , not that it gets opened now !!

 

[Darranna]

Craig ours doesn't have a rear window so fitting a bike rack would be ideal, but without seeing the structural design of the van I would be nervous of drilling hols in the back of the van.

One of the earlier concerns I had around fitting an A Frame rack was the increase in nose weight but having just been out and measured it, this is no longer a concern as it's currently only reading about 62 KG.

 

[Craigyoung]

Why not contact a dealer that deals in Swift and ask to speak to the technicians / fitters or service department ? If you can get it on it's a great piece of kit I would post a picture but I'm one of many that have never able to succeed in getting pictures on !! Tried !!

 

[Craigyoung]

Darren ,
I tried to change my Avatar to a picture of the bikes on the rack but even that is saying file too big to change !!
I give up with pictures

Good luck , craig

 

[Darranna]

Hi Craig can you email it my user I'd plus @me.com

 

[Martin24]

I realise that Swift and many of their customers think it's a good idea to have extra weight hanging on the back of caravans but I for one still don't think it's a good idea from a stability point of view. Look at many 'van reviews where there's a rear bed and the person doing the review is saying not to over load this area at the rear. Well hanging a couple of bikes on the back whatever the structural integrity of the structure goes against the advice given to and by caravaners for many years.

The A frame length will determine whether you can fit the bikes there. Often as already mentioned this set up is more suited to continental vans such as Adria that have longer A frames.

There was a bike holder for between the front seats of the caravan marketed a few years ago, don't know if it's still available or ever took off properly.

 

[Darranna]

Hi Martin,

Things have changed over the years we now have proper stability systems, most vans didn't even have shock absorbers until a few years ago, cars are better at towing than in the past and much of the issue with stability still comes from incorrectly loaded vans. Weight on the rear can easily be compensated elsewhere. If it wasn't safe manufactures wouldn't do, how could they, the legal cases would put them out of business.

There are a few compromise solutions available, one is to fit a tow all together the A frame and mount a bike rack there. I could show you pictures if I could work out how to post them on here.

 

[PHOENIXFLIER]

We solved this problem by getting two decent fold up lightweight bikes. Shove them in the back of the car. Put 'em together when set up and go in search of beer / wine / other. Job done!.

 

[Darranna]

That is an option I have considered but having spent circa £1400 on the two bikes we have now which have been built to our personal circumstance, I'd prefer to find a solution with our current bikes.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

That is an option I have considered but having spent circa £1400 on the two bikes we have now which have been built to our personal circumstance, I'd prefer to find a solution with our current bikes.

Have you considered that what you are wanting is impossible for the combination you have and there are NO options?

 

[Darranna]

No, I'm not prepared to accept that. I am prepared to accept it hasn't been done before so some lateral thinking will be required.

 

[Parksy]

Hi Craig can you email it my user I'd plus @me.com

Hi Darranna, Craig Young contacted me because he was unable to forward his pictures to you via email.
I've forwarded Craig's email with attachments containing his pictures to you

 

[otherclive]

No, I'm not prepared to accept that. I am prepared to accept it hasn't been done before so some lateral thinking will be required.

Here's a lateral thought. Change the car.

 

[Darranna]

Thank you for this insightful help

 

[JTQ]

I am concerned with the payload capability of your UK van, but assuming you know you have the reserves then I can recommend mounting the bikes via their front forks.
Mine [a Kalkhoff Agattu e-bike & Felt road bike] are carried like this with two of these clamps mounted on a 19 mm plywood plank that in my current case fits across my towcar's boot. But I have helped others do the same for carrying in a caravan.

https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Delta-Bike-Hitch-Pro-In-Car-Rack_46651.htm?sku=122187&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google_shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_rGfxtud1gIVirftCh10RgsPEAQYAiABEgJzOPD_BwE
You might need to stagger the clamps so the handlebars "nest".

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Darranna,

I have only just read this thread and can see it has progressed quite some way.A slightly tricky problem, and bearing in mind what you have so told us, I like your thinking.

Martin has correctly raised the concern about end loading, but all too often such blanket advice does not take all the factors into account and can be more restrictive than it needs to be. The dogma in caravanning circles is that if you "end load" you'll have instability. Well, almost anything taken to extreme is bad, so its a question of sensible moderation.
Handled sensitively some degree of end loading is usually possible without causing a catastrophe. In practice all caravans have some end loading, such as the body work, end bathrooms, or beds, so there is no such thing as zero end loading.

On that basis I wold look into the possibility of mounting one bike on the rear. This may need some addition strengthening of teh rear structure, but probably not too much. And to help redress the effect on the nose load, look to a single bike on the A frame. The tow bikes will broadly balance each other out, But is does increase the caravans moment of inertia, so it will also be necessary to ensure that as much luggage and other items are loaded as close as possible to the axle to claim back some of the Yaw inertia.

You must also bear in mind the weight of the bikes and their brackets will eat into the available payload of your caravan.

Whilst you haven't told us your tow car, and what its available nose load limit is, you have indicated its in excess of 62Kg. However I am always a little sceptical when a new poster produces such a specific and low figure, and I am concerned that you may be measuring the nose load inaccurately.

Nose load must be measured at the hitch and at its coupled working height. Spring nose weight gauges cannot guarantee to give you the correct working height becasue the applied load compress them, and most of the retail versions available are known to be highly inaccurate and inconsistent. Bathroom scales supported on something like the caravan step and padded up with magazines to match the towing height is cheap and far more reliable guide.

 

[Darranna]

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to post such a comprehensive reply.

How would one go about strengthening the area to where a rear mount would be fixed. The layout of our van is end bedroom with the bathroom alongside.

The tow car is a Renault Laguna Coupe with a maximum Permissible nose weight of 75 KGs

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to post such a comprehensive reply.

How would one go about strengthening the area to where a rear mount would be fixed. The layout of our van is end bedroom with the bathroom alongside.

The tow car is a Renault Laguna Coupe with a maximum Permissible nose weight of 75 KGs

Hi Again,

I'm sorry but I have two bits of worrying news,

The first is the rear wall may need additional internal bracing to accept the bike racks mounting points. It's not so much the vertical weight that's the problem though it needs to be considered, but more the ability for the panel to resist the fixing points pulling through the material. Unfortunately I don't have an intimate knowledge of your caravans construction, so you may need to call on an expert for help in that regard. I have seen a couple caravans with a rear bike rack fitted that had bolts that went through to the interior and a load spreader panel inside.

But another bit of information you have supplied does raise alarm bells.

The majority of the car industry set out the cars maximum towed weight limit to be the difference between gross Train Weight, and the Gross Vehicle Weight.

GTW-GVW = Maximum Towed Weight Limit (In most cases)

This is simple and straight forward. However Renault were often a bit greedy with their towing limits, and you have to be careful

Certainly on My Espace and a number of other Renault's I have seen they quote the maximum Towed Weight Limit to be

GTW - GVW + XXXkg = Renault's Maximum Towed Weight Limit

This looks great but you are still limited to the GTW which means to tow the biggest trailer permitted which is XXXkg heavier than the normal calculation you must keep the load in the car to be XXXkg less than the cars solo GVW limit. This is some cases means you can only have the car in unladen weight configuration and the driver - no passengers or luggage!!!

Do double check the vehicles specification becasue not all models uses this twist. If your does have this, then you need to be doubly careful about the weight you actually tow and how much you have in the car.

 

[Craigyoung]

Hi again !
I noticed one or two people are saying that having a bike rack on the back is a bit daft for instability whilst towing hmy: and maybe losing control of the caravan, not once did I find this the case as we traveled to Holland- and obviously back - with our bikes on the back, not once did I feel it was going out off control , if it is loaded correctly, there shouldn't be a problem, like the prof' says , if you can get the internal construction bit sorted for a external rack to be fitted then good on you - as long as your car can take the weight , once again good luck

Craig .