I can ear it filling up, and when I open the winter drain outside it empties, so I assume that its refilling
The switch at the bottom is to run the heater off mains electric. The 3 light one is for when you want to power it from gas. No lights would normally be on this until you turn it on. I'm assuming 12v is all up and working. Can you confirm a 12v light is working please.(the pump will be on a separate switch). If you can hear the pump running then at least one of the microswitches is working. If you turn each of the 4 taps on in turn the pump should be audible. Finally you need to purge the air out of the pipes and it takes quite some time to fill the heater and do this.
One word of caution - don't turn the heater on until water flows through all of the taps or at least the hot ones.
edit: I'm assuming it is actually the Cascade 2 GE model which has the electric element unlike the earlier version.
One word of caution - don't turn the heater on until water flows through all of the taps or at least the hot ones.
edit: I'm assuming it is actually the Cascade 2 GE model which has the electric element unlike the earlier version.
The bottom fused switch does work and does heat the heater, the carver switch above that did light up when we first had the van but now will not light up at all, unfortunately the first day i had it i did turn this on without having the water pump on outside (stupid I have discovered) as I didnt have a pump i had to buy one.
Also since this switch has stopped working we also dont have any electric working in the bathroom, the light has stopped working and the flush pump in toilet is not working. Also there is a fitted car stereo in the headboard which worked originally but now the red bulb under the face off is flashing but the unit does not power on.
I am going to get a lecy in to check the electrics soon, but any further suggestions much appreciated, have I probably blown something when turning the heater control on without running water?
Thanks
Also since this switch has stopped working we also dont have any electric working in the bathroom, the light has stopped working and the flush pump in toilet is not working. Also there is a fitted car stereo in the headboard which worked originally but now the red bulb under the face off is flashing but the unit does not power on.
I am going to get a lecy in to check the electrics soon, but any further suggestions much appreciated, have I probably blown something when turning the heater control on without running water?
Thanks
Hi.
I hope you have checked out the link I gave you for the operating instructions.
Just for some clarity, the cold water enters the heater through a non return valve at the bottom of the main casting. The outlet is near the top of the main casting, so the tank has to be filled enough for the water level inside to cover the outlet port. Because of the non return valve, the water level inside the heater should never fall below the out let level To get water out you have to push cold water in at the bottom. Using this arrangement, if you run out of cold water in your external tank, the heater will remain full, but you cant get any water out through the taps until you replenish your cold supply. If the water pressure in the tank rises too far, there is a pressure relief valve on the exterior of the heater.
You can only drain the the heater by using the external drain port that you have already discovered. You should turn the heater off (both gas and mains) and drain the heater before travelling or putting the caravan into storage. Complete draining of the heater and pipework is essential to prevent any residue of water from collecting in the loops and low points such as the heaters non return valve (the lowest point in the heater) and damaging the non return valve. Damaged NRV's can restrict the water flow into the heater, and allow teh tanks content to flow back into the cold pipework which can empty the tank!
hmy:
Both gas and electrical heating systems have thermostatic control to stop the water from getting too hot. But in the event of either or both control systems failing or being compromised (for example by low water level) the mains element has either a thermal fuse (on older models) which would need to be replaced, or on later models a manual resetable thermal switch on the back end of the tank.
The gas side has a fusible plug buried in the heat exchanger, which if the system gets too hot, it melts, and allows the content of the tank to spray into the burner and put out the flame and the control system should go to lock out. This should not cause external fuses or other systems to stop working. This suggests you have other issues with the electrics in the caravan.
As you can tell the heater is at least beginning to fill up with water, then we know the pump is working. and the heaters NRV is allowing water to pass. The heater has no effect on the cold supply to the taps, so the absence of hot and cold at the taps strongly suggests you have issues with pipework or the taps themselves.
This doesn't preclude any faults with the heater, but until your taps and electrics are sorted its going to be difficult to fault find the whole system.
I would venture to suggest that with such diverse fault issues, it suggests the caravan may not have been looked after by its previous owners. This raises concerns about the safety of all the gas and electrical systems and appliances, I I urge you to get them checked over by someone who knows what they are doing to professional standards.
I hope you have checked out the link I gave you for the operating instructions.
Just for some clarity, the cold water enters the heater through a non return valve at the bottom of the main casting. The outlet is near the top of the main casting, so the tank has to be filled enough for the water level inside to cover the outlet port. Because of the non return valve, the water level inside the heater should never fall below the out let level To get water out you have to push cold water in at the bottom. Using this arrangement, if you run out of cold water in your external tank, the heater will remain full, but you cant get any water out through the taps until you replenish your cold supply. If the water pressure in the tank rises too far, there is a pressure relief valve on the exterior of the heater.
You can only drain the the heater by using the external drain port that you have already discovered. You should turn the heater off (both gas and mains) and drain the heater before travelling or putting the caravan into storage. Complete draining of the heater and pipework is essential to prevent any residue of water from collecting in the loops and low points such as the heaters non return valve (the lowest point in the heater) and damaging the non return valve. Damaged NRV's can restrict the water flow into the heater, and allow teh tanks content to flow back into the cold pipework which can empty the tank!
hmy:Both gas and electrical heating systems have thermostatic control to stop the water from getting too hot. But in the event of either or both control systems failing or being compromised (for example by low water level) the mains element has either a thermal fuse (on older models) which would need to be replaced, or on later models a manual resetable thermal switch on the back end of the tank.
The gas side has a fusible plug buried in the heat exchanger, which if the system gets too hot, it melts, and allows the content of the tank to spray into the burner and put out the flame and the control system should go to lock out. This should not cause external fuses or other systems to stop working. This suggests you have other issues with the electrics in the caravan.
As you can tell the heater is at least beginning to fill up with water, then we know the pump is working. and the heaters NRV is allowing water to pass. The heater has no effect on the cold supply to the taps, so the absence of hot and cold at the taps strongly suggests you have issues with pipework or the taps themselves.
This doesn't preclude any faults with the heater, but until your taps and electrics are sorted its going to be difficult to fault find the whole system.
I would venture to suggest that with such diverse fault issues, it suggests the caravan may not have been looked after by its previous owners. This raises concerns about the safety of all the gas and electrical systems and appliances, I I urge you to get them checked over by someone who knows what they are doing to professional standards.
The kitchen tap in my caravan has a removable nozzle with a gauze filter behind it.
Over time this can be clogged with limescale, or even bits of carbon from the water filter, resulting in a lack of flow. It's easily remedied by removing, turning around and rinsing.
Worth a check.
Over time this can be clogged with limescale, or even bits of carbon from the water filter, resulting in a lack of flow. It's easily remedied by removing, turning around and rinsing.
Worth a check.
Hi
I am sorry to resurrect this subject but I have read the previous on going posts but still not sure.
I have just purchased a1998 Peugeot Boxer Wayfarer motorhome. It has a Cascade Rapide water heater according to the wall control which is not lighting at all. The previous owner did not appear to use the water heater at all. 12v and mains and gas supplies all OK.
I don't seem to be able to locate any form of separate mains switch for the heater as described previously nor any light.Is it possible it's gas only at this age?
I have water both hot and cold taps and if I twist the pressure release valve water squirts out so assume tank is full.
Any ideas re gas only or why no lights at all. Will get a service in off season and maybe that will resolve it!
Appreciate any info
I am sorry to resurrect this subject but I have read the previous on going posts but still not sure.
I have just purchased a1998 Peugeot Boxer Wayfarer motorhome. It has a Cascade Rapide water heater according to the wall control which is not lighting at all. The previous owner did not appear to use the water heater at all. 12v and mains and gas supplies all OK.
I don't seem to be able to locate any form of separate mains switch for the heater as described previously nor any light.Is it possible it's gas only at this age?
I have water both hot and cold taps and if I twist the pressure release valve water squirts out so assume tank is full.
Any ideas re gas only or why no lights at all. Will get a service in off season and maybe that will resolve it!
Appreciate any info
hmy:
I bet the Prof knows. In another life maybeWoodlandsCamper said:You might get a better response on a Motorhome forum rather than this Caravan forum.
Damian
Moderator
A quick way of checking if it is gas only or dual fuel is to look at the inboard end of the hot water tank.
If it is gas only there will NOT be a white plastic box on the end of the tank.
If there is a white plastic box then it is dual fuel with the electric element connections within the box.
Then it is just a case of following the mains cable back to find any other switch.
If it is gas only there will NOT be a white plastic box on the end of the tank.
If there is a white plastic box then it is dual fuel with the electric element connections within the box.
Then it is just a case of following the mains cable back to find any other switch.
Dustydog said:I bet the Prof knows. In another life maybeWoodlandsCamper said:You might get a better response on a Motorhome forum rather than this Caravan forum.
? :blink:
By 1998 virtually all Carvers Cascade 2 production were dual fuel models.
The Carver Cascade 2 is a 9 litre storage water heater, which when running on gas will heat the water to 65deg c in about 45 minutes. On 240V mains assuming it has this facility, the time can be somewhat longer or shorter depending on the wattage (630w 3amp to 840w 5amp) of the element fitted, you can use both gas and electric together for faster times.
To operate the gas there is a wall switch or a switch within a main control panel, either way both have three lights green, amber and red. When switched on the green lights, (water tank must be full, i.e. water coming from hot taps), if it stays on after about 8 seconds then the gas has lit and all is well. If the green is joined by the red then you may have a problem, but if the gas bottle has just been changed then air in the pipes will have to be bled through by repeating the above 2 or 3 times. Once lit, and it should light without any pops and bangs, (this would indicate it needs a service), the heater looks after itself and gives constant hot water. Any problems will cause it to shut down safely and show the red light. Forget the amber light, it's to show low voltage and won't light unless the voltage is so low the heater and everything else packed up long since, though you may notice it 'flash' as the switch is turned on or off.
The 240v immersion heater if fitted is totally separate, and lies behind a white plastic box on the inboard end of the water tank. It is controlled by a switch, often close by and at floor level, but again sometimes as part of a remote control panel. The switch has a red light to show it's 'on', not that it's working, this will be determined by the water getting hot. If it does not then it may have 'tripped' Two types exist, early circa 1990 are non-re-settable but are repairable. Later models have a Red button on the end of the plastic box which is sometimes behind a little flap. Switch off mains, and press to reset.
Other faults concerning the gas side very often come down to the 'Burner Module'. This handy little unit contains the burner, gas valve and all the electronics which control it and is accessible from behind the cover outside of the van. In the event things go wrong it's a 5 minute job to replace it, with a new or serviced exchange unit. One other safety device is a wax filled 'fusible' plug, this again is behind the outer cover and shows itself as a 13 mm nut set in the fins above the burner. The wax will melt if things get too hot allowing hot water from the tank to spray over the burner and put the flame out. This will render things safe but will require a new module because it's control circuitry is faulty. However given if the fuse 'blows' without the water apparently getting to hot then replacing the plug will be sufficient. The point to note here is that over time the wax in the plug degrades or the threads leak, at the very least allowing water to seep onto the burner causing it to rust and eventually will still require replacement of the whole burner module.
Further problems that come to light in spring is the discovery of frost damage to the water tank, the non-return valve which is part of the cold water inlet and other plastic fittings. Failing to drain the heater when there is a chance of temperatures dropping below freezing can be very expensive to repair and should be avoided by removing the drain bung and allowing the heater to drain completely. Later models have a valve above the drain hole in the top left corner of the flue cowl, these have a 'toggle' showing that when turned a ¼ in any direction will allow air into the tank and assist the draining. Older models still have the valve but the flue cowl needs to be removed and the valve end pulled to open it, in this case opening all taps in the van will do much the same thing. It is most important that the drain bung is then only placed back into the hole and not screwed in, any water left in the system can then drain away.
Frost damage to the tank will be obvious by the leaking water from the damaged seal, the damaged non-return valve quite often will prevent water coming from the hot taps although the cold water flow will be fine. Other fittings are often cracked by the pressure of the frozen water and will leak on refilling the system.
To operate the gas there is a wall switch or a switch within a main control panel, either way both have three lights green, amber and red. When switched on the green lights, (water tank must be full, i.e. water coming from hot taps), if it stays on after about 8 seconds then the gas has lit and all is well. If the green is joined by the red then you may have a problem, but if the gas bottle has just been changed then air in the pipes will have to be bled through by repeating the above 2 or 3 times. Once lit, and it should light without any pops and bangs, (this would indicate it needs a service), the heater looks after itself and gives constant hot water. Any problems will cause it to shut down safely and show the red light. Forget the amber light, it's to show low voltage and won't light unless the voltage is so low the heater and everything else packed up long since, though you may notice it 'flash' as the switch is turned on or off.
The 240v immersion heater if fitted is totally separate, and lies behind a white plastic box on the inboard end of the water tank. It is controlled by a switch, often close by and at floor level, but again sometimes as part of a remote control panel. The switch has a red light to show it's 'on', not that it's working, this will be determined by the water getting hot. If it does not then it may have 'tripped' Two types exist, early circa 1990 are non-re-settable but are repairable. Later models have a Red button on the end of the plastic box which is sometimes behind a little flap. Switch off mains, and press to reset.
Other faults concerning the gas side very often come down to the 'Burner Module'. This handy little unit contains the burner, gas valve and all the electronics which control it and is accessible from behind the cover outside of the van. In the event things go wrong it's a 5 minute job to replace it, with a new or serviced exchange unit. One other safety device is a wax filled 'fusible' plug, this again is behind the outer cover and shows itself as a 13 mm nut set in the fins above the burner. The wax will melt if things get too hot allowing hot water from the tank to spray over the burner and put the flame out. This will render things safe but will require a new module because it's control circuitry is faulty. However given if the fuse 'blows' without the water apparently getting to hot then replacing the plug will be sufficient. The point to note here is that over time the wax in the plug degrades or the threads leak, at the very least allowing water to seep onto the burner causing it to rust and eventually will still require replacement of the whole burner module.
Further problems that come to light in spring is the discovery of frost damage to the water tank, the non-return valve which is part of the cold water inlet and other plastic fittings. Failing to drain the heater when there is a chance of temperatures dropping below freezing can be very expensive to repair and should be avoided by removing the drain bung and allowing the heater to drain completely. Later models have a valve above the drain hole in the top left corner of the flue cowl, these have a 'toggle' showing that when turned a ¼ in any direction will allow air into the tank and assist the draining. Older models still have the valve but the flue cowl needs to be removed and the valve end pulled to open it, in this case opening all taps in the van will do much the same thing. It is most important that the drain bung is then only placed back into the hole and not screwed in, any water left in the system can then drain away.
Frost damage to the tank will be obvious by the leaking water from the damaged seal, the damaged non-return valve quite often will prevent water coming from the hot taps although the cold water flow will be fine. Other fittings are often cracked by the pressure of the frozen water and will leak on refilling the system.
Apologies for jumping in but I wonder if The moderators would give Gary from Arc Systems my E-mail address please.
If he doesn't mind emailing me.
I've got an issue with the same model of heater and have tried contacting Arc Systems via E-mail for advice and to try and sort out how to get my heater to him for repair.
I'm unable through deafness to actually use the phone so I have tried what must be an old email number without success.
Thank you
Brian
If he doesn't mind emailing me.
I've got an issue with the same model of heater and have tried contacting Arc Systems via E-mail for advice and to try and sort out how to get my heater to him for repair.
I'm unable through deafness to actually use the phone so I have tried what must be an old email number without success.
Thank you
Brian
Damian
Moderator
Hello Brian,
I have sent Gary an email with your details so hopefully he will be in contact with you.
I have sent Gary an email with your details so hopefully he will be in contact with you.
Damian-Moderator said:
Thank you Damian. Much appreciated. It's so frustrating having to converse via e-mails. Half the time a 30 second telephone call would sort out my queries.
Hopefully Gary will get back to me.
I don't know what his set up is but If he has a workshop I would have no problem jumping in the car and going over to explain in person. I'm ok hearing close to someone.
Thanks again.
Brian
Ahh! my email is badly spammed up, I have a personal one I'm using but I'm not putting address online or it will get as bad as my main one!!
So best you ring the mobile number on my website, www.arcsystems.biz 9 till 5 monday to friday
So best you ring the mobile number on my website, www.arcsystems.biz 9 till 5 monday to friday
gary said:
Cheers Gary I will have to get someone to give you a call on my behalf.
Also thank you again Damian for your help.
Best wishes Brian
OK Brian, found the email from Damian so know the problem but not your details, so just resend the original email now or text me for the other email address
gary said:OK Brian, found the email from Damian so know the problem but not your details, so just resend the original email now or text me for the other email address
Thank you Gary I've rehashed the email and sent it again to the address on your site. Hopefully you will be able to pick it up from there.
Best regards Brian
brian_c said:
Well I'm fully sorted and back up and running again.
Thank you again Damian for your help,
Gary of Arc Systems contacted me via Text and e-mail. He gave me some advice regarding the removal of my burner unit. I posted it off to him and he was able to confirm that there was a fault on the gas valve. He sorted this out and cleaned up the whole unit. He posted it back again with a couple of tips regarding re-fitting.
It all was very smooth and easy. I refilled the water system and left the heater on for a couple of hours running a bowl full of very hot water off a couple of times and the heater performs brilliantly. Whilst I tend to use mainly sites with hook up it did play on my mind that the heater had a potential gas fault plus the loss of flexibility should I visit a site with no hook ups. So I'm now happy to be fully working again.
Also thanks to Gary for his patience in dealing with me via e-mail and text.
Not forgetting what I believe is his excellent repair service.
Certainly someone to recommend.
Best wishes to all.
Brian
Damian
Moderator
Hello Brian,
I am so pleased that your heater is back working as it should and that you were able to converse with Gary as you did.
He is a brilliant guy who goes the extra mile to help in most cases.
I am so pleased that your heater is back working as it should and that you were able to converse with Gary as you did.
He is a brilliant guy who goes the extra mile to help in most cases.
Hi all
I'm new to this I have bought a 1994 elddis shamal xl and have a problem I've been trying to sort for a few days now I've replaced the cold water inlet and non-return valve but still not getting any water out of hot tap the pump is working fine but I'm sure then tank isn't filling up can some help me please
I'm new to this I have bought a 1994 elddis shamal xl and have a problem I've been trying to sort for a few days now I've replaced the cold water inlet and non-return valve but still not getting any water out of hot tap the pump is working fine but I'm sure then tank isn't filling up can some help me please
andrewroyston84 said:
Please bear in mind we cant actually see your heater so we are working blind. You do realise the first time the heater is used after being drained down, the tank needs to fill before you will get any water out of the hot taps. The tank is 9L which may take 1 to 2 minutes to fill. However once its full it should remain full until you drain it down.
The route the water takes through the heater starts with the Non Return Valve (NRV). it turns 90 degrees and into a drilled transverse gallery and 90 degrees again into the bottom of the tank. The water has to fill the tank until the lever reached the outlet port, which is a cross drilled gallery to the outlet port.
Fortunately its fairly easy to check the NRV is working, by turning the pump off and removing the drain plug on the outside of the heater. wait for any water to stop dripping. Now turn on the pump. If the NRV is working you will get a good flow of water through the drain plug hole. If you don't have any water when the pump runs, then there is something wrong with NRV.
If the water does flow from the drain plug, but the tank doesn't fill then sadly it looks as though thr cross drilled ports have become blocked. These might be recoverable with a descaler.
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