How do I get to the cross drilled ports to descale them the last owner of the caravan said the water was fine till about 2 months ago I believe the tank isn't filling as I have had the drain plug out is there any chance the old ball from the non return valve could still be in and stopping water from flowing as before I put the cold tap on without putting the drain plug in and it shot water across my garden but now I'm getting nothing when repeating last steps I'm new to this and totally confused I was going to buy a new waterheater but I would rather try repair it first as there a pretty penny
As a said I am working blind, If water is "shooting" out of the drain plug port then the NRV is not the problem.
The NRV does not use a "ball" it has a small o ring, which by its self would not be enough to block the water flow,
The next thing to try is to open the fast drain/pressure relief valve valve at the top of the heater on the out side. Leave it open and turn on the pump. As this is at the top of the tank, the tank may take 1 to 2 mins to fill. If water starts to flow from the open portit means the heater is not blocked, and your problem must lie in the pipe work.
Just a thought, have you mixed up the water pipes? The cold inlet (usually blue pipe) must be connected to the bottom of the heater and the hot pipe (usually Red) to the top.
The NRV does not use a "ball" it has a small o ring, which by its self would not be enough to block the water flow,
The next thing to try is to open the fast drain/pressure relief valve valve at the top of the heater on the out side. Leave it open and turn on the pump. As this is at the top of the tank, the tank may take 1 to 2 mins to fill. If water starts to flow from the open portit means the heater is not blocked, and your problem must lie in the pipe work.
Just a thought, have you mixed up the water pipes? The cold inlet (usually blue pipe) must be connected to the bottom of the heater and the hot pipe (usually Red) to the top.
I've been and checked all the pipes are in the right places I've just gone and took the drain plug out and loads of warm water has come out I put a pipe in and blow in it and there loads of scale come out fingers crossed ill get to the bottom of it if not other thing is take it to someone what knows what there doing
If loads of scale and warm water has come out then the lower cross drill must be clear. It's very unlikely the top hot outlet cross drill will be blocked, so based on what you have told us, it seems unlikely the heater is at fault, I would be looking at the hot pipework to the taps.
Hi Prof, and Others, can you please advise me, after reading this post , is it worth trying to "Descale" the water heater unit as you would do a kettle. My thoughts would be yes.
Thanks Hutch.
Thanks Hutch.
Is it easy to replace the hot pipe work if that is the case. Also for some strange reason the water in the bathroom will only flow if the cold tap is turned on over the base sink is this normal
andrewroyston84 said:
You didn't tell us if you got water from the heater when the pressure relief valve was pulled open?
Your latest reply has added some more detail and possible causes.
Its not normal to have to turn on a cold tap to get water flow through another tap. This leads me to suspect your pump is controlled by "switched taps". This is where every tap has a microswitch incorporated so that when the faucet is turned the combined switch closes turning power onto the pump. Its not uncommon for these switches to fail. Most are replaceable. Your dealer should be able to supply spare switches.
It may be you hot taps have also got failed microswitches which stops the water being pumped to the taps.
I can't advise about replacing the hot pipe work, that depends on the detail of your caravan.
I've managed to get hot water at last the valve at the top was really badly blocked. I'm not sure if anyone can help me but while I've been fixing the water an other issue has now popped up the dc voltage in the caravan keeps going on and off I have checked all fuses and there all fine I've checked the wire that runs from house to caravan for any breaks but fine there a clicking noise coming from the black box
andrewroyston84 said:
Assuming it is the battery charger, and it is clicking on and off that suggests to me its getting hot and its an over temperature cut out operating. This should not be happening as it means something is usuning more 12v current than it's capable of supplying.
So I have a number of questions and points:.
Do you have a 12V battery installed and connected? If not,you should do, as your caravan is of an age where the built in charger is just that, a charger and not a power supply. You may damage some equipment if you try and power the 12v systems without a battery.
If you have a battery installed, then something is woefully wrong somewhere. Either the battery is disconnected - could be a fuse has blown, or the battery is worn out.
If its all connected properly, and the battery is ok, then either you have too many 12V appliances running (which is unlikely) or some 12V appliance is creating a massive current draw. Or the battery charger is faulty.
I hooe it's ok to pick up this thread again. I've read through all the posts (thanks for your post Gary, very helpful and I've also read through the manual), but haven't found a solution yet. I gave a 1994 swift challenger with a carver 2 water heater. I have a mixer tap with two knobs in the kitchen, two seperate knobs with one tap in the bathroom. Green light on the heater switch in the electrical cupboard and red light on the switch down at the bench. Caravan is plugged into mains electrics and I've got the gas connected. The whalemaster pump seems to work ok and I have cold water flowing out the cold tap. But no water (also not cold water) comes out the hot water taps (not bathroom, not kitchen). How do I know whether the heater is filled up or not? What can I do to get hot water going? Thanks for any suggestions!
Antie66 said:
Hello Anti,
The Carver Cascade in common with most other caravan storage water heaters utilise a tank which obviously fills from the bottom, but the exit port is at high level within the tank, so before water comes out of the heater the tank does have to fill. So the absence of water at the hot taps suggests the tank has not completely filled.
Normally a correctly working pump and heater will fill the heaters tank in about 2 mins. Once its filled a non return valve on the input to the heater should prevent it emptying except when you deliberately drain the heater for storage.
Unfortunately it is a well known problem with the Carver Cascade 2 for the non return valve to be damaged if the water system is frozen. The growth of the ice blockage in the valve can displace a rubber 'O' ring which jams the valve. This restricts the flow of water into the heater, and sometime cans stop it all together, which might have happened in your case.
The solution is to repair or replace the non return valve.
It is very important that you do fully drain the heater and pipe work if the caravan is likely to be stored during freezing weather.
Thank you for this quick reply Prof J. After reading some more, this was what I was suspecting. I found the part on ebay, but could you give me advice or are there any videos / instructions on how to replace this valve (I read some other forums where it says this can be quite tricky)? Thanks
Antie66 said:
I am not aware of any video's that show the repair/replacement process, but most caravan service centres and engineers will be aware of the process, and its relatively simple, but there can be some difficulties which can catch the unsuspecting out.
The original Non Return Valve (NRV) was a white plastic fitting screwed into the main casting at the bottom on the right hand side looking from inside the caravan. If this is easily accessible from inside the caravan, then it may not be necessary to remove the heater to effect the repair.
The plastic fitting needs to be unscrewed from the casting. The common problem is the plastic has degraded and it doesn't come out cleanly often breaking, and leaving part in the thread in the casting. If this happens you may need specialist help to do the job.
If it comes out whole, you may find the plastic shuttle inside the fitting is jammed by the small "O"ring. If the "O"ring is not permanently damaged it may be possible to reset the "O" ring and the valve be refitted, but more often it needs to be replaced.
Replacement NRV's are readily available from Ebay and several caravan spares shops.
search "Carver Cascade 2 Non Return Valve" you will find compatible versions from Carver, Truma, and Henry.
Hi. Another Cascade leaking issue here - I bought a 1996 Sterling Europa 500 ES fitted with a Carver Cascade 2 Plus earlier this year. Initially it was leaking from the drain plug, and showed signs of having been doing this for a while. The drain plug was old and badly chewed up (probably from attempts to tighten it to stop the leak) so I replaced it - this seemed to do the trick. However, after using the van a couple of times this summer the leak seems to have started again - it's a steady drip, and the pump cuts in for a few seconds every 30 - 40 minutes or so (I'm guessing to top up the tank, no taps are open). I've had the cover off and there is no sign of water coming from the fusible plug or the fast-drain valve, all bone dry. Would some PTFE tape help to seal the drain plug better or is this a symptom of a bigger issue?
Cheers, Steve
Cheers, Steve
Hello Steve, welcome to the forum.
The drain plug should have an rubber "O" ring seal that sits under its head to seal the port. If that doesn't work it suggests the casting that forms the port may be damaged, or perhaps becasue its been leaking, lime scale may have built up where its been dripping, preventing the seal from working properly.
If its lime scale try using a descaler like ViaKal or white vinegar to dissolve and remove the scale at the opening. Don't leave the chemicals on too long, and do rinse thoroughly.
PTFE tape might work, but it should not be necessary.
The drain plug should have an rubber "O" ring seal that sits under its head to seal the port. If that doesn't work it suggests the casting that forms the port may be damaged, or perhaps becasue its been leaking, lime scale may have built up where its been dripping, preventing the seal from working properly.
If its lime scale try using a descaler like ViaKal or white vinegar to dissolve and remove the scale at the opening. Don't leave the chemicals on too long, and do rinse thoroughly.
PTFE tape might work, but it should not be necessary.
Hi Prof John et al, I am new to practical caravan but not new to sorting problems with heaters, heating, plumbing and general fittings etc.
As a professional engineer I am horified to read all these posts about having to regularly replace such basic parts. The designers at Carver, Truma et al should be ashamed of themselves - basically the plastic that they have specified for the part is not up to the duty - OK (maybe) to make a mistake the 1st time, but then to use the same material for their second attempt!!!!
Car companies would not get away with such behaviour - nobody expects to replace under-bonnet plastic parts every few years because the plastic has aged and become brittle ....... and the use of non-standard threads urghhhhh!!
Anyway I fully intend to replace my drain plug, vent and eventually inlet non-return valve with more durable components made with something that will not corrode nor get brittle with age (stainless steel? or high-grade plastic?).
In the meantime can anybody tell me the actual thread sizes on the later model heaters - my drain plug is missing, so I can't check it, but would like to know before I start what it should be - I understand that the vent /PRV is M16x2.0, but the drain plug is definitely larger than that. It would also be handy to know if the casting is the same size as the original - ie can I just open it out to 1/2" BSP instead and use a standard part?
Many thanks for all replies, regards all, Phil F
As a professional engineer I am horified to read all these posts about having to regularly replace such basic parts. The designers at Carver, Truma et al should be ashamed of themselves - basically the plastic that they have specified for the part is not up to the duty - OK (maybe) to make a mistake the 1st time, but then to use the same material for their second attempt!!!!
Car companies would not get away with such behaviour - nobody expects to replace under-bonnet plastic parts every few years because the plastic has aged and become brittle ....... and the use of non-standard threads urghhhhh!!
Anyway I fully intend to replace my drain plug, vent and eventually inlet non-return valve with more durable components made with something that will not corrode nor get brittle with age (stainless steel? or high-grade plastic?).
In the meantime can anybody tell me the actual thread sizes on the later model heaters - my drain plug is missing, so I can't check it, but would like to know before I start what it should be - I understand that the vent /PRV is M16x2.0, but the drain plug is definitely larger than that. It would also be handy to know if the casting is the same size as the original - ie can I just open it out to 1/2" BSP instead and use a standard part?
Many thanks for all replies, regards all, Phil F
Hello Phil,
You make a point about choice of materials, but things are not always as simple as they may seem. In many cases when dealing with gas appliances there are enforceable construction constraints such as fire resistance, thermal stability, thermal transmission and maximum temperatures for touchable surfaces, health hazard, potability etc. Some of these points may preclude the use of what might seem obvious materials to the uninformed.
In other considerations, which are more aesthetic or commercially based, colour and texture fastness, and of course cost and manufacturability.
Its also particularly important to understand that especially plastics, rubbers and unprotected steel deteriorate with age as much as usage and sometimes the lack of use. There is also the possibility that over time the product may have been abused or damaged.
It is normally recommend in general gas appliances should be annually checked for safe and correct operation and serviced when necessary. Very rarely will a gas appliance last
10 years or more without servicing or needing some replacement parts. Bear in mind that Carver sold its caravan leisure products business to Truma in 1999, and the Carver branded products ceased in 2000 so the the youngest Carver caravan products are at least 18 years old now.
You make a point about choice of materials, but things are not always as simple as they may seem. In many cases when dealing with gas appliances there are enforceable construction constraints such as fire resistance, thermal stability, thermal transmission and maximum temperatures for touchable surfaces, health hazard, potability etc. Some of these points may preclude the use of what might seem obvious materials to the uninformed.
In other considerations, which are more aesthetic or commercially based, colour and texture fastness, and of course cost and manufacturability.
Its also particularly important to understand that especially plastics, rubbers and unprotected steel deteriorate with age as much as usage and sometimes the lack of use. There is also the possibility that over time the product may have been abused or damaged.
It is normally recommend in general gas appliances should be annually checked for safe and correct operation and serviced when necessary. Very rarely will a gas appliance last
10 years or more without servicing or needing some replacement parts. Bear in mind that Carver sold its caravan leisure products business to Truma in 1999, and the Carver branded products ceased in 2000 so the the youngest Carver caravan products are at least 18 years old now.
Prof,
You forgot to say many of them are still giving reliable service today. There are specialists still making some parts , so not all bad. :cheer: :evil:
You forgot to say many of them are still giving reliable service today. There are specialists still making some parts , so not all bad. :cheer: :evil:
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