Coachman VIP 575 Noseweight

[Ian Law]

I am looking at buying a Coachman VIP 575 and would like to get a feel for typical noseweights from owners. Our Skoda Superb is too light to tow it and am considering a Kodiak but am concerned its maxiumum towball weight of 80kg may be insufficient. Any advice much appreciated.

 

[Hutch]

The 575, is almost exactly the same weights as my 560, I normally have my noseweight at between 80 to 90 kg when on the outbound trip and maybe 75 to 85 on the way home.
This is due to the van being "totally " loaded, fridge, gas bottles, food stuff in lower cupboards, on the way to the site. After a week, food all gone, gas down by maybe 1/4 to 1/2 a bottle.
Awning, BBQ and beer go in the car.
Mine tows ok at 75 kg, nose weight but prefer it when higher.

 

[Ian Law]

The 575, is almost exactly the same weights as my 560, I normally have my noseweight at between 80 to 90 kg when on the outbound trip and maybe 75 to 85 on the way home.
This is due to the van being "totally " loaded, fridge, gas bottles, food stuff in lower cupboards, on the way to the site. After a week, food all gone, gas down by maybe 1/4 to 1/2 a bottle.
Awning, BBQ and beer go in the car.
Mine tows ok at 75 kg, nose weight but prefer it when higher.

Thank you, much appreciated.

 

[Paullus1959]

The maximum hitch weight of the Coachman Vip 575/4 from 2015 to the present is unchanged at 100kg.
My KIA Sorento also has a towball limit of 100kg.
So, I try to achieve around 90-95kg on the hitch and it seems to work because the caravan tows very smoothly.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I am looking at buying a Coachman VIP 575 and would like to get a feel for typical noseweights from owners. Our Skoda Superb is too light to tow it and am considering a Kodiak but am concerned its maxiumum towball weight of 80kg may be insufficient. Any advice much appreciated.

Hello Ian.
Car manufacturers have to follow certain EU construction and use regulations about how they specify towing capacity and the tow hitches nose load capacity. Basically the hitches 'S' or static nose load limit must be a minimum of 4% of the cars maximum towed load capacity or 25kg which ever is the greater.

 

[RogerL]

Hello Ian.
Car manufacturers have to follow certain EU construction and use regulations about how they specify towing capacity and the tow hitches nose load capacity. Basically the hitches 'S' or static nose load limit must be a minimum of 4% of the cars maximum towed load capacity or 25kg which ever is the greater.

That's correct - but sadly too many manufacturers treat the minimum as a maximum in Europe, despite the fact that the same models sold in Australia and North America have maximum noseweights about double that allowed in Europe.

 

[Ian Law]

Thank you for the helpful replies, given up on the Kodiak now and will look at VW Tiguan or All space to get a bit more towball weight.

 

[Raywood]

I would ask the dealer if they have one in stock and see if they can weigh it for you. The maximum nose weight of 100 kg will be based on the limit for the hitch which is the maximum that ALKO certify it for. The actual figure will probably be rather lower but the only way to find out may be to check one. Coachman may be able to advise if the dealer cannot help. I would doubt that the actual figure is 100 kg, as that would not be practical given the hitch limit but I would not be surprised if the actual figure did exceed 80 kg.

 

[otherclive]

I would ask the dealer if they have one in stock and see if they can weigh it for you. The maximum nose weight of 100 kg will be based on the limit for the hitch which is the maximum that ALKO certify it for. The actual figure will probably be rather lower but the only way to find out may be to check one. Coachman may be able to advise if the dealer cannot help. I would doubt that the actual figure is 100 kg, as that would not be practical given the hitch limit but I would not be surprised if the actual figure did exceed 80 kg.

My last van was nose heavy when empty and above 100kg. I generally would only carry one 6kg Calorlite and minimal kit in the nose locker. A lot of the vans equipment was installed from the axle forwards, so like Hutch says the fridge food was a forward loading. then there was the water tank, sink and Truma heater, PSU, battery, spare wheel etc all forward of the axle. So when loading payload nothing went under the front seats, or between them. At times depending on the duration of the trip I would place a 10kg water container right at the back, plus a 8kg toolbag too in order to get the nsoeweight down to 75kg. The car could take 80kg on the tow hitch.

It is easy to become obsessed with nose weight when so many other factors involving the caravan, car, driver et al will affect stability. I've only had two cars where noseweight on the cars tow hitch could be 100kg or higher. (Disco 2 and Sorento). Most others have been between 70-80kg and I have not had concerns re stability, and none of the caravans had ATC either.

 

[RogerL]

I would ask the dealer if they have one in stock and see if they can weigh it for you. The maximum nose weight of 100 kg will be based on the limit for the hitch which is the maximum that ALKO certify it for. The actual figure will probably be rather lower but the only way to find out may be to check one. Coachman may be able to advise if the dealer cannot help. I would doubt that the actual figure is 100 kg, as that would not be practical given the hitch limit but I would not be surprised if the actual figure did exceed 80 kg.

The "ex-works" noseweight has limited value as it will change as soon as the caravan is loaded, and then it'll depend what is stowed where.

From postings on the forum, most caravanners are trying to keep their laden noseweight below their car's limit - but with my Lunar Clubman ES I have to front load the caravan to prevent the noseweight being too low.

 

[otherclive]

From postings on the forum, most caravanners are trying to keep their laden noseweight below their car's limit - but with my Lunar Clubman ES I have to front load the caravan to prevent the noseweight being too low.
[/QUOTE]


A nice position to be in.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Ian,

I'm not clear as to why you think the Kodoiq's nose load capacity is too small for you.

I presume you do realise that the actual nose load is created by the way you load your caravan, so by having more mass in front of the axle produces a greater nose load, and vice versa. = And of course this value will change if you change the way you load the caravan.

Caravan manufacturers use a standard chassis components, and it happens that most hitch assemblies do have a 100kg capacity ( there are some with 150kg capacities) but it does not mean you have to use the total capacity of the hitch.

You strictly only need enough nose load to maintain a safe tow, but as that value is not a fixed or predictable value you do have to suck it and see, and its probably advisable to go start at about 75% of the available capacity and try small adjustments to find the best value for you.

The UK caravan industry suggest aiming for a nose load of between 5 to 7% of MTPLM, but this is only a recommendation and is not a strict requirement.

As Roger has stated, if a manufacturer provides a nose load figure, all that is, is an EXWORKS figure and will bear very little relation to the working nose load figure after you add your accessories and luggage to the caravan.

You can only know your nose load value by measuring it.

 

[RogerL]

From postings on the forum, most caravanners are trying to keep their laden noseweight below their car's limit - but with my Lunar Clubman ES I have to front load the caravan to prevent the noseweight being too low.

A nice position to be in.
[/QUOTE]
I'm not complaining but it's quite hard work - we don't use an awning so have a couple of 32 litre collapsible boxes with non-refrigerated food - in the old days I'd have used the boxes of lager but since my "little" heart issue I'm strictly TT.

 

[Hutch]

Hi Ian, as a follow up, the way I load my 560 VIP, is,
1 full 6kg calor lite and maybe a 1/4 full one in the front locker with maybe anothe 5 kg of "stuff" water pipes water bucket etc.
Inside the van between the two front bunks are two Aqua rolls, under the left bunk is the hand vacum cleaner and a box of bits, a total of 5 kg.
Cuboard next to sink, potatoes and onions and three pots maybe 10 kg. On the floor between the cooker and the fridge, then waste master. Wardrobe Mrs H's clothes. Under our bed is the spare wheel, ( alko carrier I have removed ) and wheel ramp. Caravan table is removed, lives in the shed.
I travel normally with the water heater empty, Truma Combi blown air system.
Better some one with the advantage of a similar caravan giving advice.

 

[Dustydog]

Al-ko AKS 3004 is officially rated with a load of 150kgs
Have I missed something in this discussion??

 

[otherclive]

Al-ko AKS 3004 is officially rated with a load of 150kgs
Have I missed something in this discussion??

No its based on the OPs concern that a Skoda SUV only has a noseweight limit of 80kg. The caravan, although he hasn't said so is probably limited to 100kg, but as others have said some caravans, mainly the larger TAs can have hitch loads of 150kg. The discussion understandably widened to bring into the debate that there are many other things that affect stability in addition to nose weight. I specifically tried to steer away from stabilisers and ATC as I see them as secondary safety aids, but in reality you can't ignore them if fitted, but my aim would be to get the caravan within the cars limits and as Hutch, who has a similar van, said the noseweight can even vary over the course of a trip. So focussing on just one parameter to the exclusion of others isn't the way to select a vehicle. Although if the OP wants a higher noseweight of around 100kg there are plenty of large tugs to choose from.

Saying that I haven't seen any feedback from the OP wrt using matching site(s). I sometimes think noseweight discussions tend to drift into Wonka waving session where bigger is better.

 

[RogerL]

Al-ko AKS 3004 is officially rated with a load of 150kgs
Have I missed something in this discussion??

The A-frame components used by most UK caravans are rated at 100kg, so the lower limit applies.

 

[Dustydog]

No its based on the OPs concern that a Skoda SUV only has a noseweight limit of 80kg. The caravan, although he hasn't said so is probably limited to 100kg, but as others have said some caravans, mainly the larger TAs can have hitch loads of 150kg. The discussion understandably widened to bring into the debate that there are many other things that affect stability in addition to nose weight. I specifically tried to steer away from stabilisers and ATC as I see them as secondary safety aids, but in reality you can't ignore them if fitted, but my aim would be to get the caravan within the cars limits and as Hutch, who has a similar van, said the noseweight can even vary over the course of a trip. So focussing on just one parameter to the exclusion of others isn't the way to select a vehicle. Although if the OP wants a higher noseweight of around 100kg there are plenty of large tugs to choose from.

Saying that I haven't seen any feedback from the OP wrt using matching site(s). I sometimes think noseweight discussions tend to drift into Wonka waving session where bigger is better.

Fully agree Clive. It just seemed to me there were some spurious weights kicking around. The Al- KO AKS 3004 is rated at 150 kgs. Individual vehicle towbars will have their own ratings. No more comments.

 

[Buckman]

No its based on the OPs concern that a Skoda SUV only has a noseweight limit of 80kg.

Isn't the maximum load limit on the towbar also determined by the maximum weight on the rear axle?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Isn't the maximum load limit on the towbar also determined by the maximum weight on the rear axle?

That is one of the limiting factors car manufacturers have to juggle and account for, but it's not the only one.

 

[otherclive]

Isn't the maximum load limit on the towbar also determined by the maximum weight on the rear axle?

The towbar has a maximum download as specified my the car maker. The axle also has a maximum load again specified by the car maker. How the two limits interact is down to the car maker, and then ther is also GVW too. For this thread the OP is concerned that 80 kg noseweight is not adequate. Why? I am at a loss to understand.

 

[Raywood]

The "ex-works" noseweight has limited value as it will change as soon as the caravan is loaded, and then it'll depend what is stowed where.

From postings on the forum, most caravanners are trying to keep their laden noseweight below their car's limit - but with my Lunar Clubman ES I have to front load the caravan to prevent the noseweight being too low.

I appreciate the point but you have to start with the ex works nose weight to know how to load the caravan. You know that it is light and load it accordingly and if it were high then you load differently. I would be less happy with a heavy ex works weight though, as that means loading towards the rear, which is not good practice, but can be workable if you do it correctly. If the ex works weight is too heavy for your car that is a bad start and personally I would say look at a different caravan or in this case buy a different car.
Having to get the nose weight down on a car with a limit lower than the ex works weight is probably unwise and could produce an unstable combination. The problem with that is you only discover this once you have paid for the outfit and it is too late.
The ALKO 3004 is limited to 100 kg according to the ALKO spec sheet
AKS 3004Stabiliser (Page 1 - 2) (al-ko.co.uk)

 

[otherclive]

I appreciate the point but you have to start with the ex works nose weight to know how to load the caravan. You know that it is light and load it accordingly and if it were high then you load differently. I would be less happy with a heavy ex works weight though, as that means loading towards the rear, which is not good practice, but can be workable if you do it correctly. If the ex works weight is too heavy for your car that is a bad start and personally I would say look at a different caravan or in this case buy a different car.
Having to get the nose weight down on a car with a limit lower than the ex works weight is probably unwise and could produce an unstable combination. The problem with that is you only discover this once you have paid for the outfit and it is too late.
The ALKO 3004 is limited to 100 kg according to the ALKO spec sheet
AKS 3004Stabiliser (Page 1 - 2) (al-ko.co.uk)

My last van had an ex works weight quite a bit higher than the cars 80kg. The battery exacerbated it as don’t forget battery isn’t included in ex works. Surely these days it’s better to consider the MIRO which includes for certain items that don’t count to payload.
Might add that I had no concerns when towing despite having to load nothing under the front seats or between them, and keeping the front locker light.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I don't wish to divert the topic but I must respond to part of Ray's post

...
Having to get the nose weight down on a car with a limit lower than the ex works weight is probably unwise and could produce an unstable combination. ....

That is an illogical suggestion, as the nose load for every caravan is changed as soon as you add any load to the caravan. It's up to the driver to ensure the caravan is loaded correctly and to bring the the nose load into correct range for the tow vehicle.

There is no reasons why a high Exfactory nose load should be less stable than a lighter one.

 

[RogerL]

I appreciate the point but you have to start with the ex works nose weight to know how to load the caravan. You know that it is light and load it accordingly and if it were high then you load differently. I would be less happy with a heavy ex works weight though, as that means loading towards the rear, which is not good practice, but can be workable if you do it correctly. If the ex works weight is too heavy for your car that is a bad start and personally I would say look at a different caravan or in this case buy a different car.
Having to get the nose weight down on a car with a limit lower than the ex works weight is probably unwise and could produce an unstable combination. The problem with that is you only discover this once you have paid for the outfit and it is too late.
The ALKO 3004 is limited to 100 kg according to the ALKO spec sheet
AKS 3004Stabiliser (Page 1 - 2) (al-ko.co.uk)

I did it differently - I loaded everything in their natural compartment (clothes in wardrobe, food in fridge, etc), then checked the noseweight and adjusted as needed.

With a spreadsheet you could use ex-works noseweight and loaded disposition but you'd need to be a real anorak to do so.