Confused over nose weights!

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Nov 11, 2009
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I don't se why not, HMG decides that a motorcycle rider has to take a proficency test before going on the road, why not the same for basic car drivers and then people to tow trailers. It should all be included. Even if it is farmed out to other organisations.
My sons were put through the "extra" driving bits after their driving test, which stated it would help their insurance, It didn't. A waste of money. Insurance companys didnt recognise it.
The only reason that trailer towing tests are being stopped is purely to release more testing staff to address HGV driver testing. There’s no saying that they might not be reintroduced in the future. Putting tests to the private sector risks undermining the integrity of the system which even for car tests is challenged by fraudsters.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I don't se why not, HMG decides that a motorcycle rider has to take a proficency test before going on the road, why not the same for basic car drivers and then people to tow trailers. It should all be included. Even if it is farmed out to other organisations.
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The bike test is not" farmed out" to other organisations though the training is. The main difference between bikes and passenger cars is of course you cannot take an instructor with you on a bike where as in cars the instructor can sit beside and in some case can take control to avert an incident.

The only reason that trailer towing tests are being stopped is purely to release more testing staff to address HGV driver testing. There’s no saying that they might not be reintroduced in the future. Putting tests to the private sector risks undermining the integrity of the system which even for car tests is challenged by fraudsters.
It certainly possible that HMG might seek to reintroduce the trailer test at a later date, but I suspect they will wait to see if there is an increase in towing incidents over the next few years.

I am in no way suggesting that testing should be carried out by anyone other than the DVSA examiners, I have only suggested advice from the private sector, and possibly training, which is the way all existing driving tests are prepared and examined. But with the specific Extension test now shelved there is no compulsive reason to to seek additional training for towing.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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It is clear from the OP, confusion exists over nose loads.
The Prof wrote an excellent script in post #17.
I see no reason why HMG cannot issue a guideline similar to the Prof’s and steer the novice towards those parties who can offer more advice. HMG do issue guidelines in a number of areas ,eg NHS so why not on the subject of towing?
 
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Jan 31, 2018
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You only have to see the discussions on here to realise the whole weight nose kerb etc is a total can of worms and bears little or no resemblance to manufacturer stating tow capacity. It really is far too complex.
 
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Jul 18, 2017
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It is clear from the OP, confusion exists over nose loads.
The Prof wrote an excellent script in post #17.
I see no reason why HMG cannot issue a guideline similar to the Prof’s and steer the novice towards those parties who can offer more advice. HMG do issue guidelines in a number of areas ,eg NHS so why not on the subject of towing?
However the nose weight issue seems to be specific to caravans or trailers where the axle is more or less central. In the US the axle of the trailer is generally located towards the rear so nose weight must be tremendous, but they get it around it somehow.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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However the nose weight issue seems to be specific to caravans or trailers where the axle is more or less central. In the US the axle of the trailer is generally located towards the rear so nose weight must be tremendous, but they get it around it somehow.
In the US, however, trailers are towed almost exclusively by beefy pickup trucks. On our side of the Atlantic we expect 2000kg caravans to be towable by relatively mundane cars which, let’s face it, were never really designed to pull such loads.
 
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Mar 14, 2005
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However the nose weight issue seems to be specific to caravans or trailers where the axle is more or less central. In the US the axle of the trailer is generally located towards the rear so nose weight must be tremendous, but they get it around it somehow.
Nose load, nose weight and tongue weight has its issues and limits wherever trailers are concerned. The biggest difference is how it is understood. In the UK caravanning fraternity a culture grew up where it was rarely enforced and whilst most caravanners know it is necessary, few fully understand the mechanics behind the way it works. Consequently the tradition that has grown around the subject is often flawed in pure technical terms.
 
Nov 6, 2005
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However the nose weight issue seems to be specific to caravans or trailers where the axle is more or less central. In the US the axle of the trailer is generally located towards the rear so nose weight must be tremendous, but they get it around it somehow.
It's not a case of "getting round it" - in Australia and North America, nose-weights (tongue-weights as they call them) are typically over 10% of the gross trailer weight, indeed they regard vehicles with a nose-weight limit less than 10% of towing limit as unsuitable for towing! So their trailers are designed with the axle(s) further back in order to increase the nose-weight, needed for stability at the higher towing speeds which are normal in the US.

Perversely, many of the cars sold in Australia and North America have much higher nose-weight limits than their equivalent EU/UK variant and I've never come across anyone who can explain exactly what changes are made to their versions to achieve the higher nose-weight rating, I suspect nothing.

But in EU/UK we're stuck with the situation and must not exceed either the towing vehicle's nose-weight limit or the trailer's hitch limit - so the best advice remains to use as high a nose-weight as possible without exceeding either limit.
 
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May 7, 2012
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You only have to see the discussions on here to realise the whole weight nose kerb etc is a total can of worms and bears little or no resemblance to manufacturer stating tow capacity. It really is far too complex.
I( agree with that but do not see the towing test makes any difference as most of the problems with loading and matching are not covered. Just to make it more ridiculous you need a commercial trailer for the test so it is not even suitable for caravanners.
 
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Mar 14, 2005
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.... Just to make it more ridiculous you need a commercial trailer for the test so it is not even suitable for caravanners.
Oh I have to disagree, the tow vehicle does not know what its towing, so provided the trailer has the size the principles of towing are the same. Don't forget the test was not a "caravan" towing test its just a trailer towing test.
 
Nov 16, 2015
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Oh I have to disagree, the tow vehicle does not know what its towing, so provided the trailer has the size the principles of towing are the same. Don't forget the test was not a "caravan" towing test its just a trailer towing test.
A towing competency is great, but a reversing test with a trailer on is different, a short trailer or a long one is totally different.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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A towing competency is great, but a reversing test with a trailer on is different, a short trailer or a long one is totally different.
The DVSA towing test did include reversing the trailer. From what I understand the test trailers were relatively short, which are noted as being more difficult to reverse compared to a longer one. So having achieved competence with a short trailer, a longer one should be easier.

You need to remember that whenever a standard ( e.g. the driving test) is set, it only represents the minimum capability that the process needs to achieve. There is often considerable scope for the activity to exceed the standard. Standards only cover the essential basics, and often it is through experience that greater competence is gained.
 
Jan 31, 2018
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However in the UK many simply drive around at the speed limit or beyond blindly ignoring road conditions other users etc while on their phones or worse. Experience .mmmmmm equals complacency from what I see every day. Most learners pass me far more safely.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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I looked into this test last year for my son.
It was very basic and the five questions asked were frankly stupid and nothing to do with towing, eg how do you check your oil level!

The test included an off-road reverse manoeuvre, a controlled stop, uncoupling and coupling of the trailer and driving on the road. You won't be expected to carry out the following exercises:
  • emergency stop on the public road
  • reversing round a corner
  • reverse parking
  • turning in the road
Loading is mentioned but more relevant to securing a load on a flat bed trailer. “Caravan” was never mentioned.
 
May 7, 2012
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However in the UK many simply drive around at the speed limit or beyond blindly ignoring road conditions other users etc while on their phones or worse. Experience .mmmmmm equals complacency from what I see every day. Most learners pass me far more safely.
I agree, if I had a pound for everyone who had made a basic error and thought because they drove that route everyday they knew it all I would be far better off if not rich. Complacency is a factor in many accidents.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I looked into this test last year for my son.
It was very basic and the five questions asked were frankly stupid and nothing to do with towing, eg how do you check your oil level!

The test included an off-road reverse manoeuvre, a controlled stop, uncoupling and coupling of the trailer and driving on the road. You won't be expected to carry out the following exercises:
  • emergency stop on the public road
  • reversing round a corner
  • reverse parking
  • turning in the road
Loading is mentioned but more relevant to securing a load on a flat bed trailer. “Caravan” was never mentioned.
But why should it be? As far as the road law is concerned a caravan s just a trailer, the test is a trailer test, not a caravan test.

If you could look up the figures, caravans are a minor proportion of trailers that are used on the road. When on the road it makes no difference what the stationary or work function of trailer is, so there is no reason for the trailer test to be biased towards or to include any caravan specific elements.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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But why should it be? As far as the road law is concerned a caravan s just a trailer, the test is a trailer test, not a caravan test.

If you could look up the figures, caravans are a minor proportion of trailers that are used on the road. When on the road it makes no difference what the stationary or work function of trailer is, so there is no reason for the trailer test to be biased towards or to include any caravan specific elements.
You’ll have to ask the DVLA. I merely mentioned the fact.
 

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