Cost of caravanning equipment

woodsieboy · Mar 27, 2012

I asked at a local dealer for the cost of two 240 volt three pin sockets and surface mounted boxes to match those in our caravan together with 6 plastic catches for the cupboards, as they had to be ordered specially from the caravan maker. The sockets were to match the existing ones and the catches were to keep in reserve in case of breakage.

They rang me today with a figure of................................£92.00 I decided not to proceed. I could change all of the 240volt sockets in the caravan for less than that and they would all then match. Has anybody any idea why the prices quoted for spares are so high?

Other than they charge those prices because they can. In the case of the sockets I have been unable to scource them elsewhere. Then SWMBO said why can't you take the one out of the cupboard and use that. Sure enough there was a matching socket in the cupboard for the microwave, so the happy ending was that we have an extra matching socket in the kitchen area and the microwave socket is now a white one courtesy of Wickes for less than a tenner, in the cupboard which doesn't show anyway.

chrisbee1 · Mar 27, 2012

woodsieboy said:
They rang me today with a figure of................................£92.00 I decided not to proceed. I could change all of the 240volt sockets in the caravan for less than that and they would all then match. Has anybody any idea why the prices quoted for spares are so high?

Because it's got the word "caravan" in front of it.

Damian · Mar 27, 2012

Quote " so the happy ending was that we have an extra matching socket in the kitchen area and the microwave socket is now a white one courtesy of Wickes for less than a tenner, in the cupboard which doesn't show anyway."

Not so happy though !

Sockets in caravans must be double pole , the run of the mill domestic sockets from Wickes, B&Q etc are single pole

woodsieboy · Mar 27, 2012

Hello Damien
I always use double pole in the caravan the one from Wickes is clearly marked double pole and was more expensive than the single pole one.

WatsonJohnG · Mar 28, 2012

Don't wish to labour the point but here is a reply from Swift on another forum
Its the bottom line that makes my point

The loss of socket switches was a side effect of the move to a smaller format of switchgear (this was a few years ago), which was the subject of debate at the time of the change. The RCD is double pole and MCB's are single pole and switched neutral (i.e. they monitor over current in one pole but cut both poles in the event of actuation), and extensively tested at various stages of manufacture, of the component itself, the consumer unit it is installed into and as part of the electrical system of the completed caravan. It is important that this is re-inspected on a regular basis as per our guidleines to users. The combination of RCD, MCB and earthing arrangement provides protection against over current, short circuit and direct contact (by Human). The polarity should be checked before connecting as described in our handbook. The test button, when pressed provides an electrical path to earth, thereby causing the RCD to trip, this is to allow the user to carry out a simple test to ensure that the RCD operates, obviously if when the button is pressed nothing happens, the unit should not be connected to the supply. The switches found on earlier sockets were normally single pole

Thanks
Andy

WatsonJohnG · Mar 28, 2012

Damian-Moderator said:
Sockets in caravans must be double pole , the run of the mill domestic sockets from Wickes, B&Q etc are single pole

Sorry to disagree Damien but...
Sadly that wasn't the case in all the new vans we have had
All the sockets have been single pole switched in the Baileys but Swift get round it by fitting non switched sockets so a Wicks unswitched white one would be even cheaper and comply and they and B & Q do sell a range of double pole switched sockets that are still a lot less than coloured caravan ones
Its a good point and worth bearing it in mind to pay a few pence more for the double pole switched ones

"

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh_search=double+pole+switched+sockets

http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electrical/switches-sockets/white-switches-sockets/crabtree/Crabtree-13-Amp-1-Gang-Double-Pole-Switch-Socket-11567855

xtrailman · Mar 28, 2012

Yes double pole sockets are now freely available.
New caravans are supposed to comply to the latest iee regs 17th ed, but apparently NONE of them are.

trevor123 · Mar 28, 2012

Hi Like anything you buy from a caravan dealer Bailey, Swift ect you do pay thro the nose for that item, when we had our 2001 Bailey caravan the shower head need replacing, so off we go to buy one, got there and pick it up and WAIT!!! £98 they want for it, walk out drove to B+Q found one for £20 nice sliver one, better than the plastic one they had in the dealer showroom, Trevor123

woodsieboy · Mar 29, 2012

I was under the impression that the double pole switched socket broke both sides of the circuit when switched off, from the reply from Swift it seems that they are relying on the RCD to protect the unswitched switches in their caravans. I would always prefer each socket to be individually switched.

WatsonJohnG · Mar 30, 2012

woodsieboy said:
I was under the impression that the double pole switched socket broke both sides of the circuit when switched off, from the reply from Swift it seems that they are relying on the RCD to protect the unswitched switches in their caravans. I would always prefer each socket to be individually switched.

The double pole switched socket does break both sides but they are not the norm in UK vans
I was amazed when I saw the first Swift unswitched sockets but alarm turned to conversion to the idea that it was better to unplug than to switch off the normal caravan pretty coloured sockets in the belief that they were double pole
In German vans the Schucko socket is unswitched

ProfJohnL · Mar 30, 2012

Hello Woodsieboy.

From your comment I think you may misunderstand then purpose of the switches on sockets and the RCD.

You are correct about the function of double pole switched breaking both L&N sides.

The removal of a plug or the use of any switch (if fitted) is to manually disconnect the supply to an appliance as and when the user wishes. They perform no automatic protection in the event of an appliance fault. Switches may be more convenient than having to remove a plug, but there is nothing as definitive as the physical removal of a plug to confirm disconnection.

Neither of the above does the same job as the RCD. The RCD continuously monitors the supply by comparing the current flowing in the live and neutral conductors, If every thing is normal both conductors will carry the same current. If a fault occurs in any part of the down-stream installation or appliances that allows any current to find an alternative route (usually to earth) that sets up an imbalance between the L & N conductors and when it reaches a pre-set threshold the RCD activates and disconnects the supply. In a caravan the RCD has to be a double pole device (as do the MCB's)

The RCD and MCB's provide the automatic safety whether or not the sockets are switched or not.

WatsonJohnG · Mar 30, 2012

Hi John
I always think of the RCD like an old fashioned balance scale in that the live and neutral must be the same for the beam to be level and if one or other is different the trip trips
Are you sure that the MCBs are double pole because ours on the house are just replacements for the fuses which are in the live side only
Also on French sites we have found a reading on a proximity volt tester stick only to find that the reverse polarity of the site box was tripped out on the neutral MCB
I se that the devil is in the detail and you have stated caravan MCBs
They are indeed double pole in the Challenger as I just checked with my meter across the MCB contacts and both sides are broken (power off of course !!)
Thank you for the enlightenment

xtrailman · Mar 30, 2012

From what you posted either i took the CB to be double poled but only the live side to be "active" to trips, the neutral is only switched, but both act together.

unswitched sockets are a terrible cost cutting exercise, and should be avoided, pulling a plug that could be pulling 13 amps does no favours to the socket or plug contacts.

A double pole socket is the best, but price prohibitive.

Domestic installs don't require a double poled Cb as there is little chance of a reverse polarity, the only reason for them in a caravan, the double pole CB were fitted to my 2004 bailey, so there have been around for a while now.

ProfJohnL · Mar 30, 2012

Hello John,
No problem. I should add the DP MCB's were I believe a 16th edition requirement, prior to that I'm not sure.
Your RCD analogy with a balance scale is a good visual help, but don't forget that most caravan and domestic RCD's on the power ccts look for a 30mA discrepancy between L&N before tripping, anything less would probably result in nuisance tripping as every appliance will have some permissible electrical leakage as allowed for in PAT etc.

Hello Ray,

You are right, in UK domestic properties the chances of reversed supplies is very small, mainly because of the rigorous training and qualification process for electricians, and in the supply industry. and the fact the systems is generally connected just once and not subject to frequent reconnection's to different supply sources. This means that single pole over protection (fuses or MCB's) is an adequate form of over current protection.

However in situation like a caravan where the system is connected to many different and unknown supplies, a reverse phase supply may be connected especially when visiting the continent where revered phases are far more common in fact in some countries the phase is never tested so the likely hood of a reversed supply is about 50% Where this happens double pole isolation is the norm and the reason the testing is not needed.

If a single pole MCB system were on a reversed phase supply the incoming current will flow in the neutral conductor. If a N to E fault were to develop in the caravan then the L conductor would be starved of current and the over current protection may not trip.
Though this condition would be picked up by the RCD. The other danger would be that if a user turned off the MCB or removed the fuse, the appliance would still have components carrying the live potential inside.

Therefore double pole sensing and automatic isolation for overcurrent and current leakage is pretty essential where the polarity of the supply may not be known.

joeby · Mar 30, 2012

never mind your mcb or your rcd or your double pole , trevor 123 has got it right , every thing in the Caravan industry you pay through the nose for , i used to sell TV aerials which i could buy for £7.00 and you would pay £15 for in large DIY stores , and i have seen the same aerial in caravan accessory shops for £32

woodsieboy · Apr 10, 2012

I was in Broad Lane Leisure at Alcester over the holiday and they had silver surface mounted boxes for sale, less than £4 each, still expensive for what they are, but we bought some and they are a perfect match to the ones in our caravan. Can only conclude it is the manufacturers driving up the retail price that the dealer becomes obliged to charge for spares,as the ones we bought were from the Powerpart range, and not a manufacturer part.

ProfJohnL · Apr 11, 2012

Its not just caravaning where spares and accesories are priced well above the manufacturing costs. It is a well known practice especially where a whole product is priced very keenly, the manufacture will put a much greater mark up on the cost of the individual parts.

Someone did a bit of working out many years ago, when a BMC Mini cost about £2K if you were build the car from manufactures spares the cost would be about £10K, and that was without the labour.

But it is certainly true that some types of product do attract very high mark ups, Caravanning is one but marine is even worse, and probably tops would be aviation.

anotherDavid · Apr 11, 2012

We decided to fit net curtains in our new Lunar (have previously had them in our German vans and liked it) and could not find the appropriate runners other than buying from Lunar via a caravan dealer, and you can imagine how many we could have got from B@Q for the same price, if they sold them that is. There is an element of service here also with dealers holding specialised stock for a niche market and its not suprising they are not cheap. However the economics of small orders always lead to these prices, no matter what your hobby is if you want something that is not produced and sold in the millions you will have to pay for it.

chenzhen · May 19, 2016

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