CRA again!

[Jcloughie]

I have a possible claim under the act, what do others think?

My MG ZS has performed as expected for the most part. The lights were a problem in that: On startup they all came on in bright sunshine, including fog lights. The dealer said they could not recreate the problem. I needed to get the technician to stand in front of it while I started it. Then I said, “What lights do you see?”. Then, “What should you see?

Unbelievable.

They changed the daylight sensor, So fixed. But:

Now, at night, I get fog lights! After discussion and trial and error it was discovered that the fog light should come on, but only when the steering is turned to a certain angle. This is to aid cornering. On test, they seemed to work, but later they were found to remain on intermittently when the steering was straight.

I am not too bothered about this, I think it will be fixed eventually. Half the problem is getting the dealer to accept something is wrong.

Now my main issue. The cruise control (not the radar type). Is supposed to operate in the same manner as every other car I have driven. And it does, until is comes to clicking down on speed. With the cruise set, each click down should reduce the speed by 1mph. (Some cars use 5mph).

With this car, it will stop operating at certain speeds, 22, 27, 32, 37, 42, 47 etc. So, if I am traveling at 54mph and feel I am catching up with the traffic, I may click 4 times and expect the new set speed to be 50mph. But no, I get 52mph. Infuriating, and possibly a bit dangerous.

The dealer, and MG, have told me,
Thats normal.
They are all like that.
Other makes do that.
It's the way I use it.

They are still insisting that there is not a fault. But the case has been raised and gone back to China. Who were not aware, aparently I must be the only owner world wide to have discovered this issue. They admit it does this and that it MAY be fixed in a future software update. But there are no plans to do so.

So, there is no fault, but they may fix it in the future???

So, the balls in my court. Should I rase a case. I have already sent them a recorded letter of intent.

John

 

[shouldknowbettor]

My nissan does something like that. It may be it doesn't allow me to go too many off where I'm at, or some arbitrary steps, I don't know. All I know is it sometimes seems to do what it wants not me, and I don't really care tbh.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I have a possible claim under the act, what do others think?

My MG ZS has performed as expected for the most part. The lights were a problem in that: On startup they all came on in bright sunshine, including fog lights. The dealer said they could not recreate the problem. I needed to get the technician to stand in front of it while I started it. Then I said, “What lights do you see?”. Then, “What should you see?

Unbelievable.

They changed the daylight sensor, So fixed. But:

Now, at night, I get fog lights! After discussion and trial and error it was discovered that the fog light should come on, but only when the steering is turned to a certain angle. This is to aid cornering. On test, they seemed to work, but later they were found to remain on intermittently when the steering was straight.

I am not too bothered about this, I think it will be fixed eventually. Half the problem is getting the dealer to accept something is wrong.

Now my main issue. The cruise control (not the radar type). Is supposed to operate in the same manner as every other car I have driven. And it does, until is comes to clicking down on speed. With the cruise set, each click down should reduce the speed by 1mph. (Some cars use 5mph).

With this car, it will stop operating at certain speeds, 22, 27, 32, 37, 42, 47 etc. So, if I am traveling at 54mph and feel I am catching up with the traffic, I may click 4 times and expect the new set speed to be 50mph. But no, I get 52mph. Infuriating, and possibly a bit dangerous.

The dealer, and MG, have told me,
Thats normal.
They are all like that.
Other makes do that.
It's the way I use it.

They are still insisting that there is not a fault. But the case has been raised and gone back to China. Who were not aware, aparently I must be the only owner world wide to have discovered this issue. They admit it does this and that it MAY be fixed in a future software update. But there are no plans to do so.

So, there is no fault, but they may fix it in the future???

So, the balls in my court. Should I rase a case. I have already sent them a recorded letter of intent.

John

On the face of you do have a problem, but I'm not sure the CRA is going to be able to do very much for the following reasons.

I presume you are beyond the automatic return for a refund period, so there would have to be serious fault. The question of how serious a fault has to be before you can realistically reject a vehicle outright.

If a fault renders the vehicle undrivable, would fall into the CRA's criteria or not fit for purpose. But based on your description none of the faults are as serious as that.

Its questionable if the problems with the lights would be classed as illegal use of lights.

The problem that I believe may be a critical factor would be the cruise control jumping to a higher speed than toy can anticipate which could take you over a speed limit.

I am disappointed the dealership is so reticent to admit these are faults, it seems to me it s probably a combination of things, firstly their lawyers have probably advised them never to admit to fault, as this might render the company liable to things like the CRA, and secondly the dealer does not fully understand the technology they are selling, and the big issue with that is whilst other manufacturers may have systems with similar functions, Ill bet the MG dealers in the UK do not have all the workshop manuals covering all the systems so they cant fault find them.

 

[Dustydog]

Bad hair day John.
looking at the sales blurb and your drover owners handbook how is the cruise control system explained and described.?
My VW is very specific and does what it says . Does yours or is it silent?

 

[Buckman]

Time frame would be required to help with advice. However your first step should be contacting Which Legal Services for the best advise as it does look like you have grounds for compensation or even rejection.

Under Sale of Goods Act we rejected a Ford Mondeo at 6 months due to issues with the Powershift gearbox. We got a full refund of deposit paid plus payment for the towbar that was fitted. Again the issue was with the software for the gearbox which took Ford several years to resolve.

 

[Jcloughie]

Bad hair day John.
looking at the sales blurb and your drover owners handbook how is the cruise control system explained and described.?
My VW is very specific and does what it says . Does yours or is it silent?

The handbook is clear, 1 click down equals 1 mph slower. The sales blurb simply says it has cruise control. The odd thing is, clicking up to go faster in 1 mph increments, works fine.
I have had many cars with cruise. All have worked fine.

John

 

[Jcloughie]

Time frame would be required to help with advice. However your first step should be contacting Which Legal Services for the best advise as it does look like you have grounds for compensation or even rejection.

Under Sale of Goods Act we rejected a Ford Mondeo at 6 months due to issues with the Powershift gearbox. We got a full refund of deposit paid plus payment for the towbar that was fitted. Again the issue was with the software for the gearbox which took Ford several years to resolve.

I have already taken legal advice from my motoring organisation. They think I have a case and the recorded letter of intent has been sent. It concentrated minds. But if there is no fix. Where does that leave us?

I am happy with the car in every other respect. But I do make a lot of use of the cruise control so it is disappointing in that respect.

My legal advice only includes initial advice. So I need to decide where I go from here.

The car is 5 months old. The problem was reported at about 2 months, and the letter sent at about 4 months.


John

 

[ProfJohnL]

It's a shame your having such problems becasue , the present MG range has generated a lot of positive comments in the motoring press for value and performance.

But you're experiencing an aspect of how foreign brands cope when taking on a new market. I hope it will improve but that doesn't help you, as you need the depth of experience now.

 

[Raywood]

As the car is under six months old but over 30 days you have a right to a repair if the car is faulty. If the garage say it is not a fault you would need an independent report to say otherwise.
It is not something I have come across, although the cars I have had with cruise control were only Vauxhall and Mazda models going back possibly twenty years. They have been a simple reduction in speed with you holding the button or lever down and would increase or reduce speed to the point where a gear change was needed. Not sure what gear you are using but it might be a point.
I doubt it is dangerous as you can always take it out of cruise control, but it could be annoying.

 

[Dustydog]

If the CC does not perform as described in the Owners Handbook then imo the system is faulty. When did you first alert the dealer to this issue. Can you demonstrate the defect was present at the point of original sale? I’d certainly push the dealer hard.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The problem with instructions in hand books, you will find most user manuals will contain a phrase or acronym like "Errors and Omissions Excepted which suggests the product may vary from the information in the handbook.

Its standard practice and it lets the dealer off the hook for some issues.

 

[otherclive]

It's a shame your having such problems becasue , the present MG range has generated a lot of positive comments in the motoring press for value and performance.

But you're experiencing an aspect of how foreign brands cope when taking on a new market. I hope it will improve but that doesn't help you, as you need the depth of experience now.

MG Motor Group (Nanjing plus SAIC) introduced their home grown car in 2009, prior to that there was the rather messy run down of MG via Phoenix so for a few years previous MGs were based on ex Rover/Honda cars. So realistically the modern M G seems to stem from 2009. So I think that being in U.K. for at least 14 years should be more than enough to develop their technical support in the U.K. market. Generally the cars seem to get good reviews and reliability, so it’s disappointing that JCs has this glitch and the dealership don’t seem to be too interested or able to sort it out. Do they sell caravans by any chance?

 

[Jcloughie]

IMHO technically the car is way beyond the technicians capabilities. The dealership do have a central help line and I have also tried this.

With both the dealer and MG the default position is telling me I am using it incorrectly. Or, “they are all like this, Or, It is normal, Or there is a reason why it does this etc. Never, Lets get it fixed. It then becomes a battle. Very immature and infuriating.


John

 

[otherclive]

IMHO technically the car is way beyond the technicians capabilities. The dealership do have a central help line and I have also tried this.

With both the dealer and MG the default position is telling me I am using it incorrectly. Or, “they are all like this, Or, It is normal, Or there is a reason why it does this etc. Never, Lets get it fixed. It then becomes a battle. Very immature and infuriating.


John

Is there an owners Forum whereby a member(s) may have experienced the same fault and fingers crossed had it resolved.

 

[Jcloughie]

Is there an owners Forum whereby a member(s) may have experienced the same fault and fingers crossed had it resolved.

Yes, but fairly useless as so few members, and it is mixed with the original MG models which bear no resemblance. I found the lights are a common issue, others have had the sunshine sensor change with success. Others just say they have got into the habit of turning the lights off and then back on every time. And they are happy with this! Some have found a fix by removing a fuse and then replacing it. but they need to do this regularly!

No one else seems to have the steering to fog lights issue or even realise that the fog lights are supposed to come on when cornering. There is nothing in the handbook about this.

I posted re the cruise issue. Most say they mever use it so are not concerned. One has tested it and says his behaves normally. But even the dealler admits they all have the problem.

There is another forum for the ZS EV, But it is not a comparable car except in appearance.

John

 

[Dustydog]

The Prof is probably correct regarding the Handbook . Never mind getting things wrong but missing them out is unforgivable E&O.😉
Chinese microelectronics can’t be all that bad surely? Bearing in mind the millions sold world wide and very recently motor manufacturers blaming Covid for the delay in parts from China!
I’ve just checked my VW and it definitely goes up and down in 1mph increments or you can go 5mph both ways.
I’d keep pressing the Dealer to change the software or reprogram it. If it sped you up too much against your will I bet they’d jump then!!

 

[RogerL]

MG Motor Group (Nanjing plus SAIC) introduced their home grown car in 2009, prior to that there was the rather messy run down of MG via Phoenix so for a few years previous MGs were based on ex Rover/Honda cars. So realistically the modern M G seems to stem from 2009. So I think that being in U.K. for at least 14 years should be more than enough to develop their technical support in the U.K. market. Generally the cars seem to get good reviews and reliability, so it’s disappointing that JCs has this glitch and the dealership don’t seem to be too interested or able to sort it out. Do they sell caravans by any chance?

Few foreign car manufacturers have much of a technical presence in their overseas subsidiaries - even Vauxhall had very few technical staff once all the engineering was done by Opel. It's also a downside of the improved reliability of modern cars that dealer staff have lost the ability to diagnose faults, made worse by the ever-increasing reliance on computer software.

I think JC should start down the legal road to claim a full refund - this will at least concentrate their minds.

 

[Jcloughie]

The problem with instructions in hand books, you will find most user manuals will contain a phrase or acronym like "Errors and Omissions Excepted which suggests the product may vary from the information in the handbook.

Its standard practice and it lets the dealer off the hook for some issues.

I tend to agree. However, I have pressed both the dealer and MG to explain the design logic behind the cruise failing to work as per the handbook. And they cannot. But still insist it works as it is supposed to, and even though it is working properly they MAY fix it in the future.



John

 

[otherclive]

Few foreign car manufacturers have much of a technical presence in their overseas subsidiaries - even Vauxhall had very few technical staff once all the engineering was done by Opel. It's also a downside of the improved reliability of modern cars that dealer staff have lost the ability to diagnose faults, made worse by the ever-increasing reliance on computer software.

I think JC should start down the legal road to claim a full refund - this will at least concentrate their minds.

Your comments would really rule out most cars sold in U.K. as the vast majority tend to be foreign not made here. But these are global products and there should be a procedure whereby problems not able to be resolved by in country technical knowledge should be escalated to regional or main HQ technical support. That way the maker will collect data on problems that may affect all cars of a model, or problems affecting just a localised number. JCs problem to seems to be exacerbated by what seems to be an indifferent dealership or importer. Wonder if another dealership could be more helpful as warranty issues can be dealt with by any brands dealerships. But this could complicate JCs position with the supplying dealer wrt consumer law.

 

[RogerL]

Your comments would really rule out most cars sold in U.K. as the vast majority tend to be foreign not made here. But these are global products and there should be a procedure whereby problems not able to be resolved by in country technical knowledge should be escalated to regional or main HQ technical support. That way the maker will collect data on problems that may affect all cars of a model, or problems affecting just a localised number. JCs problem to seems to be exacerbated by what seems to be an indifferent dealership or importer. Wonder if another dealership could be more helpful as warranty issues can be dealt with by any brands dealerships. But this could complicate JCs position with the supplying dealer wrt consumer law.

Yes, it does apply to most brands - I've had frustrating issues like this with German (VW) and Korean (Hyundai) brands in recent years - back in the '00s, Vauxhall seemed to be quite good at giving UK dealers access to Opel technical in Europe - I'll never know with Subaru as nothing ever went wrong!

In JC's case, it's probably the dealer hasn't seen this issue before and may not be able to discuss directly with technical people in China, having to go through marketing at MG UK - the language barrier won't help.

 

[woodsieboy]

I think the simple answer is for the dealer to loan you a demonstrator for say 3 weeks, and if it does all the same things that yours does so be it,but if it doesn't then the dealer needs to agree to a fix yours.

 

[Dustydog]

The good news JC has 7years or 80k miles from new before his MG warranty expires😎

 

[Jcloughie]

Yes, it does apply to most brands - I've had frustrating issues like this with German (VW) and Korean (Hyundai) brands in recent years - back in the '00s, Vauxhall seemed to be quite good at giving UK dealers access to Opel technical in Europe - I'll never know with Subaru as nothing ever went wrong!

In JC's case, it's probably the dealer hasn't seen this issue before and may not be able to discuss directly with technical people in China, having to go through marketing at MG UK - the language barrier won't help.

With MG, the infrastructure seems to be there but is hindered by the lack of will.

I just went through the RAC to investigate having an independent survey done. They can do it, but their reports cannot be used in court. So a tad useless. But they gave me a good contact for a company called IAEA.

Institute of Automotive Engineer Assessors.

From there I spoke to a local man who said that he would find the cruise totally irritating. Yes, he could do a report but urged me to think long and hard about the cost of taking a big company to court. He is aware of many software glitches mainly with JLR stuff. Even knows of a person who had a glitch in the auto box of a Range Rover. He took on the fight to end up bankrupt and still with a faulty gearbox.

His suggestion was to make use of Trust Pilot.

John

 

[Jcloughie]

I think the simple answer is for the dealer to loan you a demonstrator for say 3 weeks, and if it does all the same things that yours does so be it,but if it doesn't then the dealer needs to agree to a fix yours.

No need, they admit all the other same model cars behave the same way. But they cannot fix it because MG is not willing to write the new software at this time.

John

 

[Jcloughie]

Further to the suggestion to use TrustPilot.

I just looked at it and, at least with regards to cars, I found it useless.

Reviews are like Marmite. 5-star ones are there but not informative, often just saying it was a nice salesman.

Plenty of 1 stars. But for all manner of things. And it is never clear if it is MG or the dealership that is their problem.

EG, one complained of being charged £61 to change all 3 windscreen wipers. And is now condemning the MG and all dealerships. He later found he could get it done at Halfords much cheaper!

That's what all dealerships do. Treat it as a lesson learned.

John