Hi thanks for you imput about bikes,Firstly like i said due to my areofoil i cannot put a rack on the car,Secondly due to back problems and lifting a roof cycle rack is out,Thirdly i have a tow bar one which i dont like to use now as with the caravan on the back and up to two bikes its extra nose weight and i think that they are not legal now while towing,(and if you have one you can see why)so i may go for the other option of keeping it in the van, Why i asked about a fold up one was that my works one needs replacing and i could use that in the van also so i thought i would kill two birds with one stone as it were,i do have a very expensive cycle but dont like to take away with me,but thanks anyway,