DAMAGED USED CARAVAN

[MARK_374583820]

I have just bought our 1st caravan, a 1998 Fleetwood Colchester 1650-4 from a local dealer for £4,300. We picked it up on 17th July 2010. We took it to a local site on 23rd July 2010. On opening the front locker I noticed the frame around the edge of the recess is cracked a split. It's about 7 - 10 inches long. You can't notice it when the door is shut apart from very fine hairline fractures.

I have now noticed one of the windows has misted up, probably due to the heavy rain we've been having. I knew it had a crack on the window when we bought it, but didn't think it had gone through to the inside as it looked fine. Taking into account how much I paid for it and the sale of goods act what are my chances of the dealer taking it back for a refund? Any advice would be very welcome

 

[Philspadders]

had these issues been raised whn you saw the van they would have been repaired.

The dealer may try the " sold as seen" route, but i think you could argue for a repair stating that the item , even though used should still be fit for purpose and a cracked window is not fit for purpose.

The overhead locker... i think you will have problems getting that repaired and may have to live with it.

Did you look in all the lockers cupboards when you decided to buy it?

 

[Damian]

Hard as it may seem, but I dont think you stand a cat in hells chance of a refund.

You say you knew there was a crack in the window...and you still bought it.

Presumably you looked in the locker prior to purchase? or did you not?

If you failed to carry out a full and proper inspection on a 12 year old caravan, and made sure everything was working before you bought it........

 

[MARK_374583820]

had these issues been raised whn you saw the van they would have been repaired.

The dealer may try the " sold as seen" route, but i think you could argue for a repair stating that the item , even though used should still be fit for purpose and a cracked window is not fit for purpose.

The overhead locker... i think you will have problems getting that repaired and may have to live with it.

Did you look in all the lockers cupboards when you decided to buy it?

Hi. Its the outside locker, where the gas goes. You cant see it unless you open it and really look. Its quite bad, looks like the plastic is shattering at that point. None of this was noticeable at the time.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello mark,

The sale of Goods Act only covers new retail products. It does not related to second-hand purchases, so there is no automatic right to a refund.

Second hand goods from a trader, you do have some rights, but these are through Trades Descriptions, and I believe in this case only be inducted if the dealer made claims about the condition of the product that were clearly false.

If the dealer used Sold as Seen, then it is even more pertinent for the buyer to as ask all the questions BEFORE they buy.

Sorry Mark, but I don't think you have much chance of a refund. Equally I don't think the dealer is likely to offer cut price repairs as other wise they would have offered some sort of warranty.

 

[MARK_374583820]

Hard as it may seem, but I dont think you stand a cat in hells chance of a refund.

You say you knew there was a crack in the window...and you still bought it.

Presumably you looked in the locker prior to purchase? or did you not?

If you failed to carry out a full and proper inspection on a 12 year old caravan, and made sure everything was working before you bought it........

As I say, the broken plastic wasnt noticbale unless you opened the outsidce locker and looked closley. The windows crack didnt appaer to go through, it had been raining but wasnt getting any condensation inside. I suppoe all this is subjective. The reason I went to a dealer as oppsed to private or ebay was because I didnt want to be in this position. I am aware of the sale of goods act, fit for porpuse and all that. This did cost

 

[MARK_374583820]

As I say, the broken plastic wasnt noticbale unless you opened the outsidce locker and looked closley. The windows crack didnt appaer to go through, it had been raining but wasnt getting any condensation inside. I suppoe all this is subjective. The reason I went to a dealer as oppsed to private or ebay was because I didnt want to be in this position. I am aware of the sale of goods act, fit for porpuse and all that. This did cost

 

[Barkas]

As I say, the broken plastic wasnt noticbale unless you opened the outsidce locker and looked closley. The windows crack didnt appaer to go through, it had been raining but wasnt getting any condensation inside. I suppoe all this is subjective. The reason I went to a dealer as oppsed to private or ebay was because I didnt want to be in this position. I am aware of the sale of goods act, fit for porpuse and all that. This did cost

 

[MARK_374583820]

Hi mark. Relax and enjoy the van, I went over mine with a fine tooth comb that embarrased the wife, after an hour she went to sit in the car, I was all over it, and when I took it out to the first tour I found loads o little ... cracks.....bits missing....thats old vans for ya!

oky doke. whats the best way to repair plastic. lol

 

[DerektheSecond]

(Prof) John, the sale of goods act covers ALL purchases new or second hand, the statutory entitlement of quality and fitness for purpose only applies when buying from someone who is 'acting in the course of a business' i.e a second-hand car dealer

this site gives good advice

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/second-hand/

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Derek 2

I concede the point about SoGA have some impact on second hand goods, but it only applies when a trader is offering S/h goods with a realistic prospect that the product still has a practical useful life.

In marks situation, it all depends on what terms and conditions were agreed at the point of sale. was any guarantee offered? Or was it "Sold as seen". You have to bear in mind the caravan is 12years old, and has no real prospect of being "as good as new" so some problems are almost bound to raise their head.

The nature of the faults do not render the caravan unusable or damaged beyond repair, thus in my view there is no legal obligation to offer a refund.

 

[DerektheSecond]

"thus in my view there is no legal obligation to offer a refund."

This has nothing to do with your view unless you sit in the house of lords or a european court" with regards to second hand goods if the purchaser reasonably expects the goods to perform the function they were bought then they should be fit for purpose the website I posted is a trusted consumer organisation.

the info I have posted is not my view but findings made at court in relation to the SOG Act.

The buyer beware only relates to private sales, Im sure most of us have either bought a second hand car or know someone who has and taken it back for faults,it is not repaired out of the goodness of the buisnesses heart they are legalily obliged to do so irrespective of what they say. I am assuming the buyer is not suitably qualified to find or realise what the consequences of faults are therefore he would trust the seller.Without getting too personal I find your comments most unhelpful when someone is asking for what might be legal advice, I am by no means an expert in civil actions but have been down this road with positive results,my info has been based on fact as per consumer organisations But at the end of the day I am not qualified to give consumer advice and will readily admit to that.

Rant over

 

[DerektheSecond]

"10:15 PM Hello mark,

The sale of Goods Act only covers new retail products. It does not related to second-hand purchases,"

" 27 Jul 2010 03:00 PM Hello Derek 2

I concede the point about SoGA have some impact on second hand goods, but it only applies when a trader is offering S/h goods with a realistic prospect that the product still has a practical useful life. "

Sorry rantnot over you now have two posts that contradict each other

Why on earth yould some one pay good money for something that wouldnt have a "realistic prospect of a practical useful life. "

 

[Parksy]

Before this topic descends into a good old forum bust up let's take time out to try to help Mark.

When you paid for your caravan did you obtain a receipt for the money Mark?

Did the dealer who you bought from offer or imply any guarantee?

I'm definitely not a legal expert by any stretch of the imagination but before you go shouting to the dealership about the sale of good act have you approached them and mentioned that the locker and the window are damaged?

I'd suggest that you are unlikely to obtain a full refund and the dealer taking back the caravan but they might offer some repair or recompense.

If the dealer is reputable they wouldn't risk their good reputation over a matter such as this.

 

[DerektheSecond]

YES, positive advice, If I spent say

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Mark

Before this blows out of all proportion have you got a couple of quotes for fixing the locker frame? Mobile firms such as the Caravan Medic etc may be able to help.

In regard to the window I am sure you can source a good used one from a caravan breakers for beer money.

Forget SoGA. This is a 12 year old caravan.

However you may be able to sue the dealer in tort if you can prove these faults were deliberately kept from you. The dealer has no legal obligation to tell you about the faults but he does if he tried to "con" you.

I have to ask why these faults were not apparent when you inspected the caravan prior to purchase?

Did the dealer offer you any sort of warranty, even say 3 months, or the chance to purchase an annual warranty?

I regret none of this helps you but maybe it can be a useful warning for others to be very careful when purchasing an older caravan. If you ae not sure get an expert to give it the once over for you..

You still haven't told us the contractual terms of purchase? I suspect the dealer sold "without any warranty or guarantee"?

Hopefully al the remedial costs wil not be too great. Perhaps a kindly word with the dealer may encourage him to help you with part of the repairs?

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[MARK_374583820]

Hi guys and thanks for the advice. The split plastic wasn't noticeable unless you happened to look relay closely and opened the locker. I didn't (silly me) the dealer had the keys so he opened it up. As I say I could see the window had what appeared to be a stone chip. It had been raining the day we saw it, no mist or condensation, so I assumed it hadn't penetrated into the unit. I phoned him today. He says will fibreless the plastic locker. He says windows often mist up, even on very new caravans????????????? I'm no expert, but hay, if it's misting up as it did on our 1st outing and you can't see out of it, then that's not fit for its purpose. Anyway he's asked me to email him the pictures of the damaged locker so he can assess it. Now for the interesting bit. When we made the deal he offered a 3 month warranty. But, it's not mention in the paperwork. I asked him about that. He confirmed the 3 month warranty. So I asked him what the terms of the warranty were he said "DON'T WORRY, THERES ONLY 2 OF US HERE. WE HAVE THE RECORDS". I didn't discuss the warranty point any further. Surely the warranty should have terms and conditions so I know and he knows what my rights are. I relay love the van, hopefully he can sort the minor issues out. By the way thanks for the really helpful advice, great forum

 

[Parksy]

Its good to hear that the dealer is addressing these slight problems, a window is easily replaced and their workshop should be able to repair the locker.

 

[MARK_374583820]

As below, when we made the deal he offered a 3 month warranty. But, it's not mention in the paperwork. I asked him about that. He confirmed the 3 month warranty. So I asked him what the terms of the warranty were he said "DON'T WORRY, THERES ONLY 2 OF US HERE. WE HAVE THE RECORDS". I didn't discuss the warranty point any further. Surely the warranty should have terms and conditions so I know and he knows what my rights are.

 

[ProfJohnL]

"10:15 PM Hello mark,

The sale of Goods Act only covers new retail products. It does not related to second-hand purchases,"

" 27 Jul 2010 03:00 PM Hello Derek 2

I concede the point about SoGA have some impact on second hand goods, but it only applies when a trader is offering S/h goods with a realistic prospect that the product still has a practical useful life. "

Sorry rantnot over you now have two posts that contradict each other

Why on earth yould some one pay good money for something that wouldnt have a "realistic prospect of a practical useful life. "