Damp report

Jul 18, 2017
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Would either of the attached damp reports be acceptable to you? They are for 2018 and 2019 both done in October. Bear in mind that some one could have just as easily sat in the office and ticked off the boxes.
On a previous caravan the percentage of damp was marked on the actual diagram drawings of the caravan so you could see how trhe various percentages varied and not just a tick to say it was okay.
Considering that a dealership service costs in excess of £250 I think the diagram should be marked with the percentages as it gives you more confidence that the caravan has actually been checked for damp.
 

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Jun 20, 2020
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Would either of the attached damp reports be acceptable to you? They are for 2018 and 2019 both done in October. Bear in mind that some one could have just as easily sat in the office and ticked off the boxes.
On a previous caravan the percentage of damp was marked on the actual diagram drawings of the caravan so you could see how trhe various percentages varied and not just a tick to say it was okay.
Considering that a dealership service costs in excess of £250 I think the diagram should be marked with the percentages as it gives you more confidence that the caravan has actually been checked for damp.
I agree with you that the percentages should be marked in the areas checked. When I used to service vans I wrote actuall percentage where damp metre put. Personally I would go back to where you had it serviced and ask for a proper damp check and percentages put where appropriate.
 
May 7, 2012
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We did at one time use a dealer who marked the report as in the second one and that should be acceptable, although the other engineers we have used since did show the percentages which is preferable.
To me the first one shown is not acceptable, but if that was the one done first, it does not matter as the second one replaces it.
Having said that it is a year since the last one and a fresh one is due. I would ask the dealer to mark the percentage figures on it if you are having another service there.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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We did at one time use a dealer who marked the report as in the second one and that should be acceptable, although the other engineers we have used since did show the percentages which is preferable.
To me the first one shown is not acceptable, but if that was the one done first, it does not matter as the second one replaces it.
Having said that it is a year since the last one and a fresh one is due. I would ask the dealer to mark the percentage figures on it if you are having another service there.
Thanks. Our caravan had its third service earlier this week and we are due to be collect the caravan on Thursday. I have now contcated the workshop manager and requested a proper damp report showing percentages around the caravan.
 
Jun 16, 2020
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The percentages may give you more confidence. But there are many reasons why these are false, both false negatives and false positives. According to my engineer, when mine was done in March, the day of the lock down. The NCC now say not to bother using a gauge at all. Instead he did a very thougher feel check.

John
 
Mar 14, 2005
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The NCC now say not to bother using a gauge at all.
I have been unable to verify if that is true. But if it is it's an extremely retrograde step, as I don't know of any person that could reliably identify a level of moisture with any accuracy without using a calibrated measurement system.

But there is another issue which is how many people actually know how to use a damp meter and interpret the readings? - only those who have had appropriate training.

Back to the OP. I would not have accepted either of the illustrated reports as they tell you nothing.

The first sheet in a perverse way may be highly accurate, as non of the sampling locations were marked, so if no samples were taken no damp could be found!

The second sheet even has a column dedicated to record the found reading, the fact it was not filled just shows the incompetence of "Caravan Engineer" who felt satisfied enough to sign off the sheet whilst it was not complete.

I do not see what the cost of an overall "service" has to do with methodology used to complete a damp survey. The overall cost of the service is driven by a wide range of factors, the damp survey if it is included in a package will only be a relatively small part of the over all cost, and it should not affect the way a damp survey is carried out.

If a damp survey has been carried out it will only have credence if the results are traceable.
 
Jan 31, 2018
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I would not be happy at all-we get the diagrams as shown but each labelled area has a clearly marked percentage reading written in-and there is some variation; of course you only have the technicians word for it-that it has been done properly but I see no reason to doubt it when you're pleased with what you see has been done elsewhere after a service-and of course it's the evidence that the servcie was done to maintain warranty etc too.
 
Oct 17, 2010
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I would not accept either of them . Had my van serviced on the 2nd Oct each window and rooflight have readings on all four sides. As well as the roof line and floor, which had 12 separate readings Highest 13% and 2 October was wet.
 
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Nov 11, 2009
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Dont worry when it is all done by touch and sight you may not even even get a diagram with nothing on it. Perhaps a body mounted camera like my Kia technician uses to show me the underside of the car.
 
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Jun 16, 2020
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I have been unable to verify if that is true. But if it is it's an extremely retrograde step, as I don't know of any person that could reliably identify a level of moisture with any accuracy without using a calibrated measurement system.
.

I too had a job checking this. But the engineer did tell me that the advice varied depending on the make and type of manufacture of the van.

He assured me that the 'tests' he did were in line with the latest NCC thinking for (in my case) Lunar caravans.

As Lunar are traditional in build I found it odd, but I have absolutely no reason to doubt him and I can see the logic behind it.

But I have now found the verification in the NCC Q&A.

Q. Why are the workshops no longer carrying out probe style damp test?

In light of the new construction methods, the requirement for this type of testing is no longer required in all areas of some makes/models. Please refer to your workshop for more information on the requirements for your particular unit.

The engineers paperwork needs updating to reflect this new thinking. Give it a couple of years!

John
 
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I would not accept either of them . Had my van serviced on the 2nd Oct each window and rooflight have readings on all four sides. As well as the roof line and floor, which had 12 separate readings Highest 13% and 2 October was wet.
Then either you caravan is of the make that requires invasive testing. Or the engineer is not up to date, or the engineer does not agree with the new methods.

John
 
Oct 17, 2010
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My Caravan is 2012 and I read invasive as thorough, I have no idea which new method. Although I used the scratch and test method years ago.
I only know that Swift accepted his reports up to six years old.
 
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Our 2020 Buc was tested as per DAve's description-each area shown in the piccy given its own percentage-floor roof around all roof lights and both sides around all windows etc. Last week.
 
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Jun 20, 2005
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Amazing! Damp / water ingress is a caravan cancer and can be the death knell.
The two documents shown by the OP are sub standard imo. The other suggestion it is now done by feel is pure fantasy. What is being felt?
All my damp reports show exactly where the probe has been inserted and what the % reading is.
It is crucial the readings are taken at the same locus every year to maintain continuity and year on year comparisons.
I have my own damp meter, keeping an eye on previous repairs. As Prof says you must understand how to use it correctly. If it doesn’t pierce the wall board plastic cover you will get a spurious reading.calibration is another factor.
A professional damp meter is not cheap. Always after a service I check my meter against the engineers reading . My own diy meter calibration is so far so good.
 
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My Caravan is 2012 and I read invasive as thorough, I have no idea which new method. Although I used the scratch and test method years ago.
I only know that Swift accepted his reports up to six years old.
The probe test is invasive as it means taking a reading below the surface.

The new method is what I have described already. My engineer ran both of his hands over and pressed on all the normal areas.

I don’t know when the new method came out only that it was previous to my service in March. I don’t know what the up to date advice is for your van. Or when you last had it done. But you may find your next service may be different.

The other suggestion it is now done by feel is pure fantasy. What is being felt?
All my damp reports show exactly where the probe has been inserted and what the % reading is.
It is crucial the readings are taken at the same locus every year to maintain continuity and year on year comparisons.
I have my own damp meter, keeping an eye on previous repairs. As Prof says you must understand how to use it correctly. If it doesn’t pierce the wall board plastic cover you will get a spurious reading.calibration is another factor.
A professional damp meter is not cheap. Always after a service I check my meter against the engineers reading . My own diy meter calibration is so far so good.
Please do not shoot the messenger. I am quoting what my engineer told me and have supported that with the link to the NCC Q&A.

You have already covered the inherent problems with using a meter. They can even give false readings on bare timber. Even when the outer surface is pierced the outer surface will still touch the probes. There is also the danger that people may rely on the numbers in the results. But it may make some feel as though a ‘proper’ job has been done.

I can see the advantages of using what god has given us. I also wonder just what is the point of using a meter on SOLID or other impervious structures.

As I said above, your engineer may use a different method next time.

I guess that the NCC has had a rethink considering new construction methods.

John
 
Jun 16, 2020
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Our 2020 Buc was tested as per DAve's description-each area shown in the piccy given its own percentage-floor roof around all roof lights and both sides around all windows etc. Last week.
Surely yours is a SOLID construction, what is being tested?

Same question to the OP.


John
 
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Mar 14, 2005
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...Q. Why are the workshops no longer carrying out probe style damp test?

In light of the new construction methods, the requirement for this type of testing is no longer required in all areas of some makes/models. Please refer to your workshop for more information on the requirements for your particular unit.

The engineers paperwork needs updating to reflect this new thinking. Give it a couple of years!
The reference to " testing is no longer required in all areas" clearly indicates that some testing may still be required.

In my opinion if a caravan was of a type where damp testing was not necessary, I would have added note to that effect on the report sheet to make it clear why there were no readings in the relevant area's.

Its a bit like MOT's where the tester is not permitted to remove covers during a test, so they add a note to that effect.

I do agree that even the best meter in the wrong hands can give a false steer regarding damp, and I also agree that where there is no wood in the composite construction, attempting to take a reading is a pointless (and no pun intended but ) and becasue the test is invasive, it might cause or precipitate damage to the skin of the surface.
 
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Oct 17, 2010
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The probe test is invasive as it means taking a reading below the surface.

The new method is what I have described already. My engineer ran both of his hands over and pressed on all the normal areas.

I don’t know when the new method came out only that it was previous to my service in March. I don’t know what the up to date advice is for your van. Or when you last had it done. But you may find your next service may be different.



Please do not shoot the messenger. I am quoting what my engineer told me and have supported that with the link to the NCC Q&A.

You have already covered the inherent problems with using a meter. They can even give false readings on bare timber. Even when the outer surface is pierced the outer surface will still touch the probes. There is also the danger that people may rely on the numbers in the results. But it may make some feel as though a ‘proper’ job has been done.

I can see the advantages of using what god has given us. I also wonder just what is the point of using a meter on SOLID or other impervious structures.

As I said above, your engineer may use a different method next time.

I guess that the NCC has had a rethink considering new construction methods.

John
I never mentioned the Engineer used the probe method.
 
Jun 16, 2020
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I never mentioned the Engineer used the probe method.
Apologies for my assumption.

That’s interesting though, what was it he did? I ask as I am not aware of any other except using a meter with probes, and you did say it was invasive.

John
 
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Jun 16, 2020
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The reference to " testing is no longer required in all areas" clearly indicates that some testing may still be required.

In my opinion if a caravan was of a type where damp testing was not necessary, I would have added note to that effect on the report sheet to make it clear why there were no readings in the relevant area's.

Its a bit like MOT's where the tester is not permitted to remove covers during a test, so they add a note to that effect.

I do agree that even the best meter in the wrong hands can give a false steer regarding damp, and I also agree that where there is no wood in the composite construction, attempting to take a reading is a pointless (and no pun intended but ) and becasue the test is invasive, it might cause or precipitate damage to the skin of the surface.
This is very true.

I think that the caravan owner has a fair right to know how the testing is done on their van and why and what is the current preferred method. Also if different areas are tested differently.

That, IMHO. Should be open to the customer and clearly reflected in the final paperwork.

Reading this topic, it seems clear that the above is not the case.

John
 
Oct 17, 2010
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Apologies for my assumption.

That’s interesting though, what was it he did?

John
There are meters that use a radio type wave to measure below the surface, he used one of them.

Have used them myself when working in a door factory, Timber and veneers (would look at several layers of veneers from top ) needed to be below 13% before assembly and shrink wrapping. That included many veneers including Rosewood etc. Lol although we had to keep records, Order number etc, builders had a habit of hanging them in newly plastered rooms.
 
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Jun 16, 2020
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Many thanks, I was not aware of them. Are they like this?

Considering the complaints about the success rate of probes, and that they are invasive, you would think they would be in common use among engineers.

John
 
Oct 17, 2010
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Many thanks, I was not aware of them. Are they like this?

Considering the complaints about the success rate of probes, and that they are invasive, you would think they would be in common use among engineers.

John
That's them, some very expensive.. I thought a lot did?
 
Mar 14, 2005
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The Protimeter was the common method used and recommended for caravan surveys mainly becasue there are several different surface finishes which might corrupt RF methods. However even the Protimeters needed to have their usage method properly defined, and the results interpreted to account for surface finishes and environmental conditions.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Perhaps since the caravan makers know their product (sic) it might be useful if they gave guidance specific to the product. Just a dream ?
 

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