Descale Ultrastore Rapid GE

[otherclive]

The water heater hasn't been descaled during my ownership so I thought I might do it for the new season. Obvious place to look was the Truma Operating manual. All it says is use the Truma Care Kit (not available on website to see what it is) and do not use chlorine agents. A typical caravan response i guess. So looking at the Truma website at the current equivalents it recommends descale with Vinegar Essence. No mention of strength. 50ml of 80% can be fatal if ingested. Then elsewhere I stumbled across the advice to use white vinegar again no dilution-strength ratio. There are at least five main types of vinegar; Essence; White, White Wine, Clear and Malt Brown.

Some come in different concentrations. IE a normal cleaning vinegar can be 5-8% whereas in Germany 28% can be obtained. I find Truma's vagueness frustrating.

Any suggestions? Im thinking of 50-50 white vinegar 12 litres or so in the Aquaroll and pump it into the heater, then heat to 70 deg C for an hour or so.

 

[Beehpee]

Is it not possible to use a weak (ish) solution of the same de scaler you would use in your kettle, I’m glad to say we don’t use the water where I live to fill the caravan because our hard water scales up the kettle so quickly it needs a descale around every month, maybe that type of descaler might be unsuitable due to the fizzing reaction.

 

[Damian]

The recommendation is 50/50 White Wine Vinegar and Water.
It is not recommended to heat the water as it may cause the mixture to foam and place too much pressure in the tank and system.
Just leave the mix in for 24 hours then flush.

 

[otherclive]

The recommendation is 50/50 White Wine Vinegar and Water.
It is not recommended to heat the water as it may cause the mixture to foam and place too much pressure in the tank and system.
Just leave the mix in for 24 hours then flush.

Damian, many thanks. Order going in shortly 👍

 

[Jcloughie]

Further to the above, I did a quick search and this person had exactly the same problem and got the dilution ratios from Truma. It’s much weaker than what Damian suggested.

HERE

John

 

[otherclive]

Further to the above, I did a quick search and this person had exactly the same problem and got the dilution ratios from Truma. It’s much weaker than what Damian suggested.

HERE

John

Thank you. I can only wonder what stops Truma putting information in the Operating Instructions handbook. Very poor approach.

 

[Damian]

Further to the above, I did a quick search and this person had exactly the same problem and got the dilution ratios from Truma. It’s much weaker than what Damian suggested.

HERE

John

My suggestion is based on advice from the actual engineers at Truma and as a Truma Authorised engineer I take what they say as the right information.

A weaker dilution may be OK if the boiler has been descaled every year, which almost all have not !

It may also be necessary to treat the boiler twice to remove all the limescale.

 

[otherclive]

Thanks white wine vinegar in order not as expensive as the boutique ones from the deli. Van coming home in the next couple of weeks to check it out and spruce it up.

 

[Jcloughie]

My suggestion is based on advice from the actual engineers at Truma and as a Truma Authorised engineer I take what they say as the right information.

A weaker dilution may be OK if the boiler has been descaled every year, which almost all have not !

It may also be necessary to treat the boiler twice to remove all the limescale.

That makes sense. As OC says, be nice if that basic info was in the manual. Also be nice if Truma were consistent with their advice.

John

 

[JTQ]

When we had one I used 50/50 white vinegar, the stuff my local farm shop, sold in 5 litre containers for pickling silver onions, very cheap.

The toxicity at high concentrations never came into it, as I flushed it out afterwards, and never thought of drinking the van's hot water.

For info:

The big "no no" are chlorine based sterilisers, not descaling products. These can do real damage to stainless steels, causing pitting and crevice corrosion, even at weak concentrations. This from seeking out trace impurities in the metal and grain boundaries to form micro "battery cells". The issues are particularly active in tight gaps, like folds, where the trapped water is soon depleted of oxygen.
There are wide ranges of stainless steels and with it wide sensitivity to these issues, those with the greater amount of expensive metal alloying the more resistant, the cheap with less alloying unfortunately the more prone.

 

[Mel]

We used white vinegar to descale ours, following forum advice. Bought 4 or 5 large containers from Amazon for not much money. It was cheaper as a job lot. Ended up using it for all sorts of jobs including scrubbing green slime off the patio and washing out the wheelie bins. White vinegar is very versatile.
Mel

 

[Buckman]

When do you need to descale or how often should you descale? We have had caravans for 6 or more years and never descaled and everything worked okay? In our current caravan we have the ALDE hot water continuous flow fitted so not sure how that would be affected?

 

[otherclive]

When do you need to descale or how often should you descale? We have had caravans for 6 or more years and never descaled and everything worked okay? In our current caravan we have the ALDE hot water continuous flow fitted so not sure how that would be affected?

Truma seem to recommend 2-3 times per year. It could depend on where you caravan. Wales is predominantly soft water whilst Spain overwinter will see you using very hard water. I guess it’s something most people don’t do. For the Alde you should read the Owner Manual as my query was relating to the Truma Ultrastore gas-electric water heater, which Damian has answered and my white wine vinegar is on order already.

 

[otherclive]

We used white vinegar to descale ours, following forum advice. Bought 4 or 5 large containers from Amazon for not much money. It was cheaper as a job lot. Ended up using it for all sorts of jobs including scrubbing green slime off the patio and washing out the wheelie bins. White vinegar is very versatile.
Mel

I have tried for ages to persuade my wife off of the multiple sprays that sit under the sink and onto using vinegar. Suffice to say I’ve failed dismally. She even had the cheek to point out my multiplicity of Autoglym and many other car sprays, which again I must admit rarely get used. Honours are evens. But I will set 0.5 litre of the WWV to one side anyway 😂

 

[Buckman]

Isn't white vinegar good for cleaning glass like windows?

 

[Damian]

Isn't white vinegar good for cleaning glass like windows?

Yes and mixed with hot water use to clean shower enclosure glass.

 

[Beachball]

We have use white vinegar for cleaning Mirrors ?

 

[otherclive]

Isn't white vinegar good for cleaning glass like windows?

Yes quite a few well known brand domestic glass cleaners contain it. But it is also a very effective general purpose cleaner with good antibacterial properties ( viruses ??????) with better environmental credentials than many cleaners. But like a lot of things acceptance is low because folks probably think “ how can something my old Nan used be any good compared to this glitzy spray that’s advertised on tv? “ Bit like bleach I guess. There are many web sites that give information on how it can be used domestically if you are interested.

 

[otherclive]

Yes and mixed with hot water use to clean shower enclosure glass.

Before we had water softeners we used a weak solution of citric acid, the main constituent of vinegar for cleaning the shower.

 

[JTQ]

In the areas of Hampshire where the water is drawn from the aquafers it is incredibly hard, but a soft hardness if that is not contradictory, the lime scale itself in by nature a soft deposit. Other areas whilst still hard are so in a different way, laying down a rock like deposit.
There seems no easy way to know when descaling is needed, but our kettle gives clues it is something we need to do and doing so is pretty low effort and with white vinegar non-risky, so I used to do it each winter. Not knowing if I needed to or how effective it did the Truma.
The Truma is fundamentally different to the Alde in that the heated areas, the electrical element and the flame heated surface are in direct contact with the fresh water. Thus these surfaces get very hot to temperatures more prone to throw out the dissolved calcium from the water. The problem is compounded by the added heat comes over a small area so concentrates the issues, and as they lime up this adds to the surface temperature even more. There is very little issue up to 55C.
The Alde's electrical elements, and the gas burner can, are in the inhibited water, where only deionised water is used, and that inhibited water then reheats the fresh water over a much bigger area, and at lower surface temperatures, so scaling issues will be in a different much lower order.
I have not yet in 13 years use on this van descaled our Alde, possibly by now and using our van generally around here, I ought.
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Re vinegar used on glass, yes brilliant for the job, but don't use it [or alcohol] on non glass acrylic caravan and motorhome windows. There it can leach into the material's grain boundaries and "reward" you with an irreparable micro crazing rash some months later on!
The very same reason for never using proprietary glass cleaners on our van's windows, they use totally the wrong ingredients for our task.

 

[Gafferbill]

Had my previous caravan for 21years bought new.
Kept a caravan diary for the whole time we had it and that tells me we spent 1217 nights in it .........that's 3 years 4months.
Broke the caravan up at end of it's life and sold the water heater for £170 in good working order!

Never once descaled the Carver GE water heater so won't bother doing the Truma heater in my current caravan!

Surely the water heater in caravans only heats the water to 60-70 deg C.....they don't boil the water, which I thought was the source of the deposits found in kettles.

 

[otherclive]

Had my previous caravan for 21years bought new.
Kept a caravan diary for the whole time we had it and that tells me we spent 1217 nights in it .........that's 3 years 4months.
Broke the caravan up at end of it's life and sold the water heater for £170 in good working order!

Never once descaled the Carver GE water heater so won't bother doing the Truma heater in my current caravan!

Surely the water heater in caravans only heats the water to 60-70 deg C.....they don't boil the water, which I thought was the source of the deposits found in kettles.

One water company website recommends keeping temperatures below 60 deg c for immersion heaters.

It would be interesting to hear Damians experience of his findings when repairing such water heaters. He has a lot more experience in the actuality.

 

[RogerL]

Truma seem to recommend 2-3 times per year. It could depend on where you caravan. Wales is predominantly soft water whilst Spain overwinter will see you using very hard water. I guess it’s something most people don’t do. For the Alde you should read the Owner Manual as my query was relating to the Truma Ultrastore gas-electric water heater, which Damian has answered and my white wine vinegar is on order already.

2-3 times/year sounds excessive even for someone full-timing on a serviced pitch - most caravanners probably don't ever need to!

 

[JTQ]

Surely the water heater in caravans only heats the water to 60-70 deg C.....they don't boil the water, which I thought was the source of the deposits found in kettles.

No, deposits start coming out at even lower temperatures, but also the water against the hot bits, the electrical element, and the gas heated fined plate, get way higher than the bulk water, concentrating the depositions on these areas.
I think though it tends to flake off through getting too hot so progressively it shells away dropping to the bottom, possibly harmlessly in the Carver case [not the Truma's as that is where the gas heats it].
Plus, the Carver was made of aluminium alloys with the only corrosion protection being a covering of lacquer, and putting that protective film at risk from descaling products would be far from my recommendation.

Gary of Arc systems biz is the man who by far is the best adviser on these dated Carver units. Though I suspect it is "leave well alone".

 

[otherclive]

The Truma site gives lots of useful information but amazingly when you go to the links relating to detailed maintenance you get error 404. So I’m unable to now locate the link where the general 2-3 times per annum was stated, but it did qualify it with the advice being dependant on usage and area.
https://www.truma.com/uk/en/camping-guides/guide-water-heater-caravan