Diesel................Or Petrol?

[TerryIvybridge]

On the way home tonight, there was an item on the news I think, about the difference with overall costs of both fuels over the lifespan of the car. The person interviewed said that it was probably now cheaper to have a petrol engined car. This made me think 'cos I'm going to change our '04 plate Mk4 130bhp 6-speeder Golf, probably for a '08/09 140 bhp Passat. Is there now a petrol engined car easily capable of towing say, a 4/5 berth 'van? Being an ex HGV driver and and transport manager, I would take some convincing now that a petrol would do the job. Having said that, i used to have a MK5 1.6 Cortina that would do a better job than its 2.0 litre stablemate. Interesting to hear from petrolheads tho'?? Whats the latest Focus like for a tug?

 

[RogerL]

Some of the recent turbo petrols look good for towing because their torque curves are very like turbo diesels.
Petrol vs diesel - for solo use it's all down to the mileage you do and the nature of it - lower than average mileage on short trips can kill a modern diesel with it's DMF and DPF.

 

[Martin24]

For fun solo petrol every time for me but....... for towing and having a good sized 4x4 diesel though! having said that I've been assured that my new car has a DPF system that will cope easily with pottering around and is designed specifically not to clog up with short journeys. If LR can do it don't see why everyone else can't!

 

[RogerL]

I've been assured that my new car has a DPF system that will cope easily with pottering around and is designed specifically not to clog up with short journeys. If LR can do it don't see why everyone else can't!

It's because the little Peugeot engine in your new Defender will have to work it's socks off to overcome the lack of aerodynamics so the exhaust will always be as hot as hell!

 

[xtrailman]

On the way home tonight, there was an item on the news I think, about the difference with overall costs of both fuels over the lifespan of the car. The person interviewed said that it was probably now cheaper to have a petrol engined car. This made me think 'cos I'm going to change our '04 plate Mk4 130bhp 6-speeder Golf, probably for a '08/09 140 bhp Passat. Is there now a petrol engined car easily capable of towing say, a 4/5 berth 'van? Being an ex HGV driver and and transport manager, I would take some convincing now that a petrol would do the job. Having said that, i used to have a MK5 1.6 Cortina that would do a better job than its 2.0 litre stablemate. Interesting to hear from petrolheads tho'?? Whats the latest Focus like for a tug?

The 2L turbo petrol Vag engines would make fabulous tow cars. Max torque is available over a very wide band.
I had a 2000 year Audi that gave max torque from 1950rpm to 4500 rpm.
The new engines are even better.
The only reason i use a diesel is the fuel economy, and the extra torque.
If you go for a diesel don't worry about the DPF, i have only done 18K miles over three years, 90% short journeys, and never even seen a DPF light up.

 

[Gagakev]

Sorry chaps but as I do occasionally like to learn things can you enlighten me on what DMF and DPF means, thanks.

 

[RogerL]

Sorry chaps but as I do occasionally like to learn things can you enlighten me on what DMF and DPF means, thanks.

DMF = Dual Mass Flywheel, essentially two flywheels joined together with huge springs designed to cushion the high instant torque from a diesel engine
DPF = Diesel Particulate Filter traps the soot produced and the periodically burns it off, easy for engines driven hard but more prone to problems in light use.

Sorry for jumping straight in with jargon.

 

[Gagakev]

Thanks Roger, nice to learn something new every day.

 

[Dustydog]

If you need a heavy 4x4 go for diesel for the all round mpg including solo.
If you can get away with a kighter vehicle then there doesn't seem much between diesel or petrol except initial purchase cost.
I've also noticed diesel is as much as 10p a litre more expensive in a lot of places.

 

[SirRogerFFS]

I peronally would go for diesel every time just my opinion mind. diesel will give a good return fuel wise and if looked after will hav a longer engine life as diesel doesnt rev so high again my opinion.
I tug with a BMW X5 and dont seem to do much less mpg when towing.As an ex PSV fitter and always service on regular intervals and stick to them I dont think you can go wrong
Sir Roger(WM)

 

[Martin24]

I've been assured that my new car has a DPF system that will cope easily with pottering around and is designed specifically not to clog up with short journeys. If LR can do it don't see why everyone else can't!

It's because the little Peugeot engine in your new Defender will have to work it's socks off to overcome the lack of aerodynamics so the exhaust will always be as hot as hell!

what a sad thing jealousy is!

 

[otherclive]

If youur solo journeys are relatively short and frequent then I would no longer plumb for a diesel. The modern diesel is very sophisticated and does not have the longevity of the older Euro 3 and earlier engines. Modern petrol engines are giving less problems than diesels particularly when used for short runs, in cities or heavy traffic. I get away with a DPF fitted diesel as it only gets used for towing and long runs the Nissan Note does the donkey work. I have towed extensively with petrols (Mondeo, Saab 9000) and whilst the diesel is an easier drive when towing I could live with a modern petrol if I went down to one car. The DPF on all bar the new Defender can be a real pain and most dealers wont regenerate it under warranty. Read Honest Johns wesite for issues. But in the end its your call as you know your driving needs best.

 

[IDC]

OK on a different note what do people think about engine remapping to get increased BHP, torque and MPG.
Anyone done this of have experience of it.
I am running a 55 plate Ford Mundain Estate with the 2.0l TDCi block in.
I am looking at this for the towing performance rather than the solo!

 

[RogerL]

I've been assured that my new car has a DPF system that will cope easily with pottering around and is designed specifically not to clog up with short journeys. If LR can do it don't see why everyone else can't!

It's because the little Peugeot engine in your new Defender will have to work it's socks off to overcome the lack of aerodynamics so the exhaust will always be as hot as hell!

what a sad thing jealousy is!

How can anyone be jealous of a Defender?
They'll go anywhere - so they should be banned from public highways - keep them in the fields they were designed for, as a tractor.

 

[emmerson]

There is a third alternative, but it always seems to attract negative responses on here.
For many years now, I've run huge V8s on LPG. Range Rovers aren't renowned for economy, but they do give you oodles of power and torque, but I realise that 13 mpg is not acceptable. On LPG however, in spite of reports to the contrary, there is no noticeable difference in power or economy, so that 13 mpg equates to approx 26 mpg in money. And still with all the torque you'll ever need, 4x4 thrown in as well, and that wonderful V8 sound.Even counting in the conversion cost, if you do more than 10,000 miles a year, the saving is tremendous.

 

[GeorgeandAde]

Would having a blocked DPF Filter affect the tickover/acceleration etc....
Apart from towing the caravan a few times a year,my CRV only does short journeys.
Are they expensive to replace?
Adrian

 

[Martin24]

I've been assured that my new car has a DPF system that will cope easily with pottering around and is designed specifically not to clog up with short journeys. If LR can do it don't see why everyone else can't!

It's because the little Peugeot engine in your new Defender will have to work it's socks off to overcome the lack of aerodynamics so the exhaust will always be as hot as hell!

what a sad thing jealousy is!

How can anyone be jealous of a Defender?
They'll go anywhere - so they should be banned from public highways - keep them in the fields they were designed for, as a tractor.

And some people should be banned from fields! Hope we never have to pull you out of a boggy CL

 

[xtrailman]

With the stick LR owners get, i wouldn't be pulling anyone out of any field.
I would just drive by and give a cheery wave.

 

[Delndi]

If you are thinking about a Diesel Passat make sure the injectors have been replaced. I have had all mine replaced in the last 12 months and VW eventually coughed up for them but at £400 each plus fitting they are not cheap. I believe there is a recall on at present. I have the 07 Passat sport Estate (170bhp) and it is absolutely rubbish at towing - wouldn't recommend it to anyone, usually get about 24mpg with the van on the back

 

[ProfJohnL]

As little as 5 years ago, I would have said Diesel every time for pulling ability and economy, but things have changed.

The modern petrol engined cars are now producing diesel like economy solo, and so the current price differential in the diesel vs petrol pump costs I guess the traditional diesel advantage is all but gone. One of the ways the car manufacturers have achieved this improved petrol economy is to reduce the size and weight of the cars, which does not bode well for towing matches.

In the towing stakes, you need a wide and relatively flat power band, otherwise you find yourself having to change gear to make good progress. whilst some petrol turbo instillations manage this, not all do so you need to be careful about your choices.

I think that for most mid range saloon cars diesels still hold the edge for a little while, unless you are going for the mega powerful petrol vehicles.

 

[otherclive]

Regarding the CRV DPF look in the Manual it will say whether a DPf is fitted. Normal symptoms tend to be a dashboard warning that then can require you to drive for around 20 minutes at above 1800rpm which can be quite difficult unless you have a motorway local. If the DPF does not regenerate the car ECU will go into limp home mode and then you have to go to a dealer to have it regenerated. £250 costs have been quoted for Volvos. If it cannot be regenerated a new DPF is needed which could be £1500. Even regeneration whilst driving will eventaully lead to the need for a new DPF as ash residues will build up inside the DPF matrix. Even the mighty new Defender with its DPF up close to the exhaust ports will likely still need a DPF change(s) during its life.
Ditch the cetane for octane!

 

[Martin24]

With the stick LR owners get, i wouldn't be pulling anyone out of any field.
I would just drive by and give a cheery wave.

Good Plan! Thanks for the advice. (must admit I'd give stick to disco owners, having had one!)

 

[Surfer]

The modern petrol engien although now similair to diesel with mpg appears in a number of cases to have a lower towing weight than the equivalent diesel.

 

[emmerson]

As little as 5 years ago, I would have said Diesel every time for pulling ability and economy, but things have changed.

The modern petrol engined cars are now producing diesel like economy solo, and so the current price differential in the diesel vs petrol pump costs I guess the traditional diesel advantage is all but gone. One of the ways the car manufacturers have achieved this improved petrol economy is to reduce the size and weight of the cars, which does not bode well for towing matches.

In the towing stakes, you need a wide and relatively flat power band, otherwise you find yourself having to change gear to make good progress. whilst some petrol turbo instillations manage this, not all do so you need to be careful about your choices.

I think that for most mid range saloon cars diesels still hold the edge for a little while, unless you are going for the mega powerful petrol vehicles.

Ref the size and weight of new cars - have you looked at the latest Corsa/Astra, and Fiesta /Ka? They're an awful lot bigger than they used to be!

 

[seth1]

The comparison between petrol and diesel ecomomy needs to be made on a similar comparison.For example compare a 3litre petrol with a 3litre diesel.
My household has a 1.2 petrol engined car in it.The car is now 2months old so its quite modern,it averages 50 to 60mpg yet the diesel version manages 80mpg.I can remember when Diahatsu released the diesel charade over 15 years ago and claimed 100mpg back then.
My own car,a 2.4 turbo diesel,also quite modern and twice the engine size of the above will return an average of 44mpg infact maybe a bit more if i stopped enjoying it so much.So in the real world i would say diesel is still miles apart on economy alone.