DIesels Arghhhhh

[giovanni_5060838]

http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/offices/environment/guidance/vehicle.html
I do wish some would get their facts right before posting emmision stuff concerning diesels v lpg v petrol. they are ALL harmfull, depends which poisons you are talking about.

 

[emmerson2]

Sorry if I went off on one, but I was haranged by Eco Warriors when I got back to my car on saturday.

Smelly tree huggers who needed a good wash and shave and one with tacky dreadlocks that would have a vet calling the RSPCA in if you had a pet in the state.

One of the twanks in Tesco's later in the day, buying his roll ups and a trolley with more booze than food and leaving in a Flower Power 2CV.

LPG seems a great idea, but what eco cost is there for the extra trucks on the road delivering it and the eco cost of the converssions and sinking more tanks in the ground to hold it and the whole supply infrastructure. You even get a waft of it at fuel stations so what damage does that do?

And you don't get a waft of petrol fumes or that other oily smelly stuff at filling stations?

 

[emmerson2]

My diesel has a particulate filter and certainly isn't smelly. So much for carcinogenic emissions.

Lutz, but the fuel you put in it does!

 

[Jazman]

We've a bank of Solar panels on our house roof but some Eco Warrior type tried to lecture us on the folly of Solar panels due to the manufacturing process.

Our car does the job we need it for very well, it's as economical as I could find to the job carrying seven. So why do we have to have all the I have LPG and I don't like smally Diesel.

Butt out and leave people alone! If you want to save the planet fine, but keep it yours and your groups little secret and don't try and intimidate others as a car is not the only Eco choice one can make.

 

[Darce]

Gio - they are not all the same, that is why diesel is a

 

[Jazman]

Darce.

Have justs seen a new plan in Herts for each house hold to have one purple waste bag a week, any others will be charged extra for. As a household of seven if it came to our town, we would either go bankrupt, run rubbish to the dump or be tempted to do like others and dump it in lay-bys. Just more Eco rubbish from dreamers!

Very nice for some to drive Euro 4 2008 spec diesel with particalate filter. Not a lot of good for a couple motgaged to the hilt with a couple of kids and a caravan towed by the best value tow car their budget affords them so they can actually have some family leisure time.

 

[Surfer]

So because I use 50% veg oil and 50% diesel I am not environmental concious. Actually I am so sick and tired of all these tree hugging nonsense and the government who use it as an excuse to tax you more that I say it and do your own thing and burn as much diesel as you want. Even better if the injectors are dirty thus allowing to to belch balck smoke! The more the happy I would be.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Darce,

You are correct when you say that LPG fuels pollute less than petrol and diesel when used in Internal Combustion engines.

However you are wrong when you say that Propane burns completely when used as a cooking fuel, it does not. To achieve complete combustion with any fuel is very difficult, and an open flame such as cooker hob or oven is not an ideal condition. The same applies to butane.

The products of cooking combustion will contain some Carbon Monoxide (a poisonous gas) Carbon Dioxide, (a greenhouse gas) water vapour, and some soot. Granted the levels are very low and in a normal caravan environment with proper ventilation they do not constitute a hazard, But complete combustion NO!

.

 

[Glenn_5132962]

just to throw another spanner in the toolbox - my LPG Range rover emmisions are so low that the MOT man now doesn't bother to check!Oh, and it's half the price of smelly, oily diesel.

How can your MOT man know your emmissions are low if he doesn't test them???? And by not doing this as part of the MOT he is in breach of the guidelines & could be prosecuted. Doh!!!!

 

[Darce]

If you do get soot forming on a gas ring or soot marks around your fridge vent when running your fridge on gas this is a sure sign of incomplete combustion and means you need to have it checked immediately.

But as far as burning propane via a gas ring - have a look at it - it will burn with a blue flame if it is set up properly.

The best example I know of a gas ring not set up properly is the sequence in the Harry Potter film Goblet of Fire when the old caretaker (Eric Sykes) puts the kettle on at the start of the film. The flame is yellow and meets over the burner - a sure sign of incomplete combustion.

I still say that propane and butane if burnt with enough oxygen will burn completely to CO2 and H20 - as will any simple hydrocarbon. This can happen under normal aspiration within an LPG powered car.

Problems of soot and other nasties only occur when you burn complex hydrocarbons without enough oxygen. This happens with petrol engines and especially normally aspirated diesels.

You still get this incomplete combustion with turbo diesels but it is much better as you can force more air into the chamber and if you fit a huge intercooler as well to cool the air and make it denser you get more air (oxygen) in the mix as well.

In fact you can add a LPG injection system piggy back to diesel engines to help improve the burn characteristics.

If LPG/propane/butane whatever produces unburnt hydrocarbons (soot) then all is NOT well with the apparatus and it needs to be checked.

If LPG did not burn completely and was as "dirty" as petrol or diesel then it would not be 50% cheaper at the pumps!

As emmerson has indicated before - when you have a LPG powered vehicle the MOT tester gives up on the emissions test apart form the CO2 one - because there is nothing to measure.

 

[giovanni_5060838]

Darce, sorry i disagree with you as does the AA and canbridge university and nearly ever other web site i have come across.

LPG has lower co and co2 than petrol.

But it has higher NOX !

Lpg has lower NOX and small particles than diesel.

But has higher CO and HC.

If yoyu were to run a diesel on a 70/30 mix with LPG you would end up with an engine that produced more CO than a standard diesel does, which means you are not making it cleaner, but dirtier!

The above are FACTS not my opinion, and there are numerous studies to show it. so now, you show me a site that contridicts this when talking about the combustion engine, rather than talking about gas cookers!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[giovanni_5060838]

While you are at it, maybe you would like to tell me how the

Vw polo blue motion 1.4 tdi only costs

 

[Darce]

Giovanni - you seem a little emotionally involved here!

Firstly let me say I am not (emotionally involved in the fuel I use, having an old 200tdi Discovery for really sh*tty jobs, a petrol car as an everyday run around and a 3.9 V8 Discovery for towing my TA caravan etc. And my son has a Passat 130 tdi which is most impressive (when the water stays out of the ecu!)

So I do not care what anyone else uses! I just know what suits me.

I also know a fair bit about biochemistry and so I feel justified in making the following comments.

Giovanni

 

[Darce]

Giovanni - you seem a little emotionally involved here!

Firstly let me say I am not (emotionally involved in the fuel I use, having an old 200tdi Discovery for really sh*tty jobs, a petrol car as an everyday run around and a 3.9 V8 Discovery for towing my TA caravan etc. And my son has a Passat 130 tdi which is most impressive (when the water stays out of the ecu!)

So I do not care what anyone else uses! I just know what suits me.

I also know a fair bit about biochemistry and so I feel justified in making the following comments.

Giovanni

 

[Darce]

Giovanni - you seem a little emotionally involved here!

Firstly let me say I am not (emotionally involved in the fuel I use, having an old 200tdi Discovery for really sh*tty jobs, a petrol car as an everyday run around and a 3.9 V8 Discovery for towing my TA caravan etc. And my son has a Passat 130 tdi which is most impressive (when the water stays out of the ecu!)

So I do not care what anyone else uses! I just know what suits me.

I also know a fair bit about biochemistry and so I feel justified in making the following comments.

Giovanni

 

[Pam_374318968]

Hi,

The only reason LPG is cheaper at the moment is because not many vehicles have been converted to run on it.

Just remember not so long ago not many people had diesel cars and that was a heck of a lot cheaper than petrol.

Now that there are more diesel cars on the road the price of diesel has shot up.

Give it a few months for LPG to become more popular then you will see a big hike in the price.

Pam.

 

[emmerson2]

Hi,

The only reason LPG is cheaper at the moment is because not many vehicles have been converted to run on it.

Just remember not so long ago not many people had diesel cars and that was a heck of a lot cheaper than petrol.

Now that there are more diesel cars on the road the price of diesel has shot up.

Give it a few months for LPG to become more popular then you will see a big hike in the price.

Pam.

Pam, people were saying that ten years ago, and I'm still waiting! If they hiked LPG next week, I've still saved a heck of a lot of money.

 

[Darce]

The Chancellor has confirmed that for the next three years the fuel duty on LPG will remain at half that for petrol. I have been running LPG dual fuel vehicles since 1996 and have lost count of the times people have told me that LPG will soon be the same cost as petrol. In the meantime I have enjoyed half price motoring compared to them!

So this old chestnut is best ignored IMO.

Interestingly in the rest of Europe diesel is about 80% the cost of petrol whereas in the UK it is about 5% more expensive than diesel.

I believe this is due to the extra taxation applied because of the overall far higher emissions that diesel produces.

Or it could just be a cynical tax grab now that diesels are more popular. Friends in Deal in Kent not only do their shopping in Calais every month but fill up as well. The savings overall cut about 1/3 of their shopping/fuel bill.

And they have a nice day out.

One other "fact" levelled against LPG vehicles is that they cannot use Eurotunnel, but my understanding was that this had changed recently because Motorhomes are allowed and they have LPG/Propane/Butane systems the same as our caravans do.

As I always use the Poole Cherbourg or Plymouth Santander crossings this has never applied to me anyway but if someone does know if the rules have changed?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello again Darce,

I find it very hard to believe that the Government was so forward thinking that it decided to tax diesel more because it produced more particulates, I would be interested to find out where this methodology is described by the Gov't as its criteria for setting tax.

It would make more sense if it did so because of the higher energy yield per standard unit. This same argument can be levelled at LPG, where it is substantially less energetic than petrol or diesel.

In all probability it more likely the gov't saw the diesel motorist as an easy minority target for raising more revenue to miss-use in so many other ways, and to suppress demand to diesels as there is so much capital and infrastructure tied up in the supply of Petrol.

In my opinion this gov't green credentials are not worth the paper they are written on. Their solution to the global warming problem is more tax. How does giving money to Gov't help reduce the environmental impact we have?

 

[Lutz]

Regardless of whether diesel, petrol or LPG, there are plans by the UK government to 'decarbonise' all road transport by 2050. If you're still young enough to get involved, you'd better start thinking what you are going to tow your caravans with then.

It may be worth reading the King Report.

 

[Jazman]

The king repoort is not worth the paper it's written on!

We all know that any commisioned report will read how UK Government wants for Tax purposes. A biased one sided report on what ever scientic report is dflavour of the week to drain our pockets a little more.

UK Government can't be trusted expecially under the current Junta in Downing Street after ten years of lies and spin doctoring.

The following report is a fine example

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2007/10/06/nosplit/mffuel06.xml
UK people will not continue to put up with being walked on, any Government that wants to remain in power will have to hold a referendum on the EU constitution as that is what it is! It will be rejected as will many half baked Eco measures.

 

[Lutz]

Whether you agree with the report or not, there's no getting round the fact that energy as a whole, and fossil fuels in particular, are going to get a lot more expensive than today, whichever government is in power and whichever country you're in, and it won't be just a matter of doubling prices. It's going to be a lot more than that.

 

[Jazman]

Why exactly should fossile fuels cost more pro rata than now or in the past?

Pockets have limits and with all these nutty eco taxes, what lives will people have left if stupid Politicians keep thinking they can tax us more and more for waste, fuels and mobility. People have a pensions deficit caused by over taxing now, exactly how we will live and have any quality leisure time if it is just a case of pay more?

Increasing tax's to cure any possible fuel ill's is a short sighted view.

May be Euthenasia when no longer a benefit to the work force will suit you and politicians Lutz. UK has many people living below or near the poverty line, fuel costs have a limit or there will be mass revolution.People will care even less about air quality or the ozone layer if they can't have some sort of life due to tax's.

 

[SteveW77]

It will be a cold day in hell before the British get of their arses and actually do something instead of just moaning about it.

There is more chance of my bum hole healing over than the British having a revolution, I wish I had been born French, now theres a Nation that really puts the wind up their politicians.

Steve W

 

[Jazman]

The wise French also have Nuclear power and don't moan about it, so they are unlikely to be blackmailed over gas prices and they are taking power profits from us to fund their country.

Exactly how stupid are our politicians!